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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Why wouldn't we feel the need for him to move up? He's best lineal champion at 147 and 154. As a fan of boxing, wouldn't you want to see if he can become the lineal champion at 160 too? Why the heck not? Can any boxing fan say with a straight face that they wouldn't want to see Floyd face GGG or didn't want to see him face Sergio Martinez?
By the way, no one needs to move up. I don't think GGG needs to move up to 168 to face Froch or Ward. He makes 160 comfortably. But, as a boxing fan, don't we want him to, especially if he clears out the middleweight division first? In fact, once he clears out the division, wouldn't it more fun as a boxing fan if he moved up to challenge himself?
Also, Floyd doesn't need to fight anyone. He's at the top of the sport and the networks and athletic commissions let him do what they want because he brings in so much money. I 100% understand from a business perspective why he wouldn't take challenges. Why would Floyd face GGG when he can he face Maidana? GGG is a much harder fight and the money now might not be that different. But show me a boxing fan that wouldn't prefer to see him face GGG.
I'd love to see Floyd fight GGG. I'd love to see Floyd fight Wlad. I'd love to see Floyd try to jump over the Grand Canyon on a BMX.
I just don't think he should be expected to do any of those things. You talk about it like he needs the GGG fight for his legacy, or he owes it to the fans. He really doesn't.
Did you even read my post? I explicitly said at least twice that Floyd didn't need to do anything. He's already made millions of dollars and been on top of the hill for a while. I said as a boxing fan, I'd like to see Floyd fight GGG because it appears on paper to be a challenging, competitive fight and it would present Floyd with the chance to be the lineal middleweight champion, something he hasn't accomplished yet.
To your point about legacy, adding a lineal middleweight belt to his legacy clearly would improve his legacy. Conversely, losing to the middleweight champion clearly would not lessen it.
I disagree with you though--I wouldn't like to see Floyd face Wlad. That's a farcical fight that in no way shape or form could be competitive. On the other hand, I view Floyd-Sergio Martinez (of two years ago), Floyd-GGG now as competitive fights, where, frankly, I bet many might pick Floyd.
Who would you pick in a fight between Floyd and GGG?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@ fan johnny @Rantcatrat @mikeeod
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
There are two arguments here. One argument is comparing Armstrong etc. to Mayweather. You and I have done that before. No need to do it again. We can agree to disagree.
The other argument is about Floyd Mayweather's opponents.
Please answer the questions below:
"Are you advocating that Floyd shouldn't take challenging fights? If so, why?" - these were already asked but not answered.
I have two more questions for you too.
Who would be the toughest fights for Floyd right now?
Who do you want to see Floyd face?
I am not advocating that Floyd not take challenging fights. I never said anything resembling that. --But many of you seem to think that the only tough fights for Floyd would be moving up in weight and taking on opponents that are naturally much bigger and heavier than him. Guys that are going to finish their careers at light heavy or cruiser weight. This is ridiculous! I'm trying to explain that Floyd should only be expected to fight opponents within his natural weight range. He's 38 years old, rich, healthy and in control of his career. Why would he throw it all away trying to get respect from douche bags that aren't ever going to respect him and only want to see him lose?!
The toughest fights for Floyd
within his natural weight range - Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia Miguel Cotto, Erislandy Lara
I'd love to Floyd fight Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia, Miguel Cotto, Erislandy Lara, Chris Algieri, Saul Alvarez
The problem here is that the view from the top is a lot different from the view from the bottom or more importantly in this case the view from the arm chair. Floyd Mayweather is at the top of the sport of boxing, in every sense. He knows how the sport works. He's seen all the shit on his way up and now that he's on top he knows he's not going back down to the bottom. He's seen his own family flushed their lives down the toilet. Now he's in complete control of his career. No other boxer has had this before. He bought out his contract and never looked back. He's a gifted genius, a brilliant business man who has worked very hard to get to the pinnacle of a sport. He's in fact reached beyond the top. He's created a new level in boxing. You all hate him for it. You say it's not fair. It's not deserved. In a sport where you can die in the ring, a sport that is rife with corruption, where your career, health and life are in other people's hands... What part of boxing is fair? Floyd has gone beyond that. He's the ultimate success story in a sport where no one leaves healthy, happy and wealthy. This make him the best ever and you hate him for it. You'd rather see him KO'd with brain damage and broke then leave a winner.
Why did you caveat the question? I'll ask it again. Who are Floyd's toughest fights within a weight class (from 160-140)?
To your suggested opponents, are you really excited about those fights? Why? He's already faced Miguel Cotto. Why do we want to see that again? Same goes for Canelo. Shawn Porter is coming off a loss against Kell Brook. I'm not sure why Floyd Mayweather would have any problem with him. Danny Garcia is fighting at the weight class below him and didn't look good in his last real fight against Herrera. Until he has a fight or two at 147 against solid opposition, why would that be a tough fight for Floyd? It would the exceptional case for Floyd to be challenged by a guy coming up in weight. Lara is coming off a loss against Canelo, whom Floyd beat. It's not a horrible idea but not a great one. Why is that a good fight to you?
For the sake of argument, although you didn't mention them, Demetrius Andrade (at 154) and Keith Thurman (at 147) aren't bad fights for Floyd at his weight class. Thurman hasn't done much at 147 yet but the pickings are slim for Floyd at that weight class. Floyd has cleaned it out for the most part.
Other than the two I mentioned, none of the fights you suggested seem like fights where Floyd would be challenged and certainly none of them would be as challenging as a fight with GGG. Moreover, what can Floyd show in those fights that he hasn't already shown before? What's new about them? Why are they captivating?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a boxing fan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The obscene amount of money Floyd is being paid he should fight GGG.
Ward should fight wilder then.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
We are all boxing fans.
What fight do you want? (Lets not talk about pac)
No one will ever be happy with his choice as they dont see past the character he plays..
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Why did you caveat the question? I'll ask it again. Who are Floyd's toughest fights within a weight class (from 160-140)?
To your suggested opponents, are you really excited about those fights? Why? He's already faced Miguel Cotto. Why do we want to see that again? Same goes for Canelo. Shawn Porter is coming off a loss against Kell Brook. I'm not sure why Floyd Mayweather would have any problem with him. Danny Garcia is fighting at the weight class below him and didn't look good in his last real fight against Herrera. Until he has a fight or two at 147 against solid opposition, why would that be a tough fight for Floyd? It would the exceptional case for Floyd to be challenged by a guy coming up in weight. Lara is coming off a loss against Canelo, whom Floyd beat. It's not a horrible idea but not a great one. Why is that a good fight to you?
For the sake of argument, although you didn't mention them, Demetrius Andrade (at 154) and Keith Thurman (at 147) aren't bad fights for Floyd at his weight class. Thurman hasn't done much at 147 yet but the pickings are slim for Floyd at that weight class. Floyd has cleaned it out for the most part.
Other than the two I mentioned, none of the fights you suggested seem like fights where Floyd would be challenged and certainly none of them would be as challenging as a fight with GGG. Moreover, what can Floyd show in those fights that he hasn't already shown before? What's new about them? Why are they captivating?
Why did I caveat the question? Because Floyd is only going to fight within his weight class you moron! Why don't you donkeys understand that!!??? If weight didn't matter to Floyd, he'd fight Klitchko for $200 million. I guarantee they'd make so much money off that fight and it would be the BIGGEST CHALLENGE for him. Or wait maybe a bigger challenge would be BOTH Klitchkos at the same time.
Part of being really good at the lower weights is knowing where your limits are. As talented as Floyd is, he is putting himself at too much of a disadvantage at the age of 38 to fight someone so much bigger and heavier. 160 is not within his weight class. He's not going to fight a guy that is going to finish his career at light heavyweight or cruiserweight. It's a health risk. Why can't you understand that this is more than just a big dick contest for someone at Floyd's level?
Floyd doesn't need to show things that he hasn't shown before. He doesn't need to prove anything to you. Does that hurt your feelings...? The fact that Floyd could give a crap about what you think. HAHA...
What is GGG proving by fighting Rubio? What new things did he show us against Geale? How compelling was his fight against unranked Ishida? If fighters need to be challenging himself all the time then GGG does too. Since you argue that it's an issue that Garcia would be moving up in weight, then why would it be acceptable for GGG to fight Floyd who would be moving up? DO you even think before you post?
Armstrong fought the same guy 8 times in 2 years but you think Floyd shouldn't rematch Cotto? Cotto gave him one of his toughest fights! Give me a break!
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Muhammid Ali has accomplished more by being a global icon and transcending the sport, whereas a Jamaican lady does not know who Floyd is.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question. Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question.
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
Muhammid Ali
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Muhammid Ali
HAHA....(You didn't even spell his name right.)
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did you even read my post? I explicitly said at least twice that Floyd didn't need to do anything. He's already made millions of dollars and been on top of the hill for a while. I said as a boxing fan, I'd like to see Floyd fight GGG because it appears on paper to be a challenging, competitive fight and it would present Floyd with the chance to be the lineal middleweight champion, something he hasn't accomplished yet.
To your point about legacy, adding a lineal middleweight belt to his legacy clearly would improve his legacy. Conversely, losing to the middleweight champion clearly would not lessen it.
I disagree with you though--I wouldn't like to see Floyd face Wlad. That's a farcical fight that in no way shape or form could be competitive. On the other hand, I view Floyd-Sergio Martinez (of two years ago), Floyd-GGG now as competitive fights, where, frankly, I bet many might pick Floyd.
Who would you pick in a fight between Floyd and GGG?
Yes, I read your posts. I never said people wouldn't want to see the fights, I never said beating GGG wouldn't do wonders for Floyd's legacy, and I never said losing to him would detract a lot from his legacy. None of those were the issue and I never came close to bringing any of them up.
My issue is with you suggesting that Floyd owes the fans a move up to 160, and that him moving up to MW is no big deal. When you say things like "he claims he is the best ever and fans have to pay $75 to watch him fight", that implies very unambiguously that Floyd owes boxing fans a GGG fight, and I can quote you directly: " For boxing fans to want him to move up to 160 to fight the most-feared fighter at 160 is not too much to ask at all." I gave reasons why I disagreed with both statements.
As for who wins, GGG would beat him and probably do serious damage to him in the process. A few years ago, I'd have picked Floyd to pull the upset, but at 38 we've seen him decline over the past few years and he just doesn't have the legs to run from GGG all night and he wouldn't be able to tie him up as effectively on the inside as he does to smaller guys. That would be my guess. Unless they were fighting at a catch weight and GGG came in drained.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question.
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.
Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.
Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.
Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.
Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
But we all know that Floyd is past his prime. He isn't his best anymore and he never will be. If he were younger and still had the speed, the stamina, the movement, the power he held at the lower weights then I'd be all for him fighting a much bigger opponent. At this point in his life, a 38 year old Floyd is not going to fare well against a GGG like opponent. Surely you can recognize that by insisting that he fight a future light heavy that you're only looking for him to lose and probably by brutal KO. You can dress it up however you like. You can claim that you want him to show how masterful he is but you're lying to yourself if that's what you believe. If Floyd made GGG go down to 154 all you dicks would be complaining about how Floyd made GGG weight drained. He didn't allow GGG to be the best fighter he could be, etc... Give me a break!
You hold Floyd out of your personal top 20 because you attribute the failure of a Pac fight not happening? Wow! Delusional?
As for all the great fighters you've listed above... They're all great! Some of the very best of all time! But Floyd has somethings that the rest of them don't have: A perfect record over 19 years. A championship run of 16 years. A shit load of money. A promotional company. His brains and body. The satisfaction that he did it his way -- the whole way.
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Why cant ggg step up and face ward.?
Always an excuse.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question.
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.
Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.
Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
You make it sound like GGG deserves the fight?! GGG has fought a bunch of B level fighters and is hardly a household name. Yet you want a Floyd to fight him at a weight that is hardly ideal for either fighter. Get the hell out of here. You are a hater. Even if Floyd fought him and beat him...haters like you will use excuses like "GGG was weight drained", etc.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
I'm fine with them not piecing together what's left of primes and charging $74.95 for me to watch and pretend it means something. Some things are only great if done at the heat of a peak, culmination etc and this match is was one to me. They BOTH blew it arguing over silk underwear and who gets more green M&Ms in the dressing room like divas. A jr welter moving up roughed up and buzzed this Mayweather, does anyone honestly believe Floyd with go up two division and meet Golovkin for anything other than a fair well mega payday affair? Really?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question.
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.
Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.
Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
You make it sound like GGG deserves the fight?! GGG has fought a bunch of B level fighters and is hardly a household name. Yet you want a Floyd to fight him at a weight that is hardly ideal for either fighter. Get the hell out of here. You are a hater. Even if Floyd fought him and beat him...haters like you will use excuses like "GGG was weight drained", etc.
You make no sense in your argument. You say GGG hasn't beaten anyone and isn't deserving to fight Floyd, yet throw out excuses as to why Floyd would lose. Also, why would I say that I would like to see Floyd fight GGG and the win would be impressive and then make up reasons to diminish it? That is pretty pointless. Also, how am I a hater if I constantly praise Floyd's greatness and skill in the ring? Do you feel that by closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and calling me a hater it somehow cancels out all of the valid points I've made?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Why cant ggg step up and face ward.?
Always an excuse.
Ward isn't fighting and isn't calling GGG out. GGG is destroying anyone who gets in the ring with him. Cotto won't even mention his name. It's like asking why Hop and Hagler avoided so many big fights for so many years. Everyone avoided them like they avoid GGG. I'm sure once GGG cleans out middleweight he will look for Ward. If GGG starts running around with a TBE shirt, I will want him to back it up in the ring and take some big risks as well.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
@
ruthless rocco - with all due respect, you're being a little harsh, my friend. I frankly disagree with you. Duran started his career at 130 and fought legitimately up to 168. Duran never claimed to be the best ever either. Floyd's line of clothing is
TBE. Enough said. For boxing fans to want him to move up to 160 to fight the most-feared fighter at 160 is not too much to ask at all, especially when he claims he is the best ever and fans have to pay $75 to watch him fight. It actually is an entirely reasonable request.
Second, it's not as far as off as you make it out to be. GGG weighed in at 165 on his thirty day weigh in for his next fight. He has offered to come down to 154 or a catch weight between 154 and 160 for a fight with Floyd. Floyd is the current champion in the junior
middleweight division, only one division below.
Ortiz weighed in the night of at
164 for his fight against Floyd. Canelo weighed in the night of at
165. They rumble at 157 or 160 and you would probably see a five pound difference in the night of weight of GGG compared with Ortiz or Canelo.
I think the difference is that Duran ate his way up to those higher weights and fought there out of necessity when he got older.
In reality, Floyd is a small WW. And because I know people will disagree with that and quote heights and weights to me, let me explain: for most people this is obvious, but for those who might not know weight cutting has come a long way, and a guy who weighs 147 at the weigh in does not walk around at 147 and doesn't not fight at 147. A guy who fights at 147 will usually weigh 157 or more on fight day.
For reference, when Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Floyd was 147 at the weigh in and 148 on fight day. In contrast, Mitchell was 145 at the weigh in and 155 on fight night. Against Baldomir, Floyd was 146 weigh in, 149 fight night. Baldomir was 147 weigh in, 162 fight night. In the first Maidana fight, Mayweather was 146 weigh in and 148 on fight night. Maidana was 146 1/2 at weigh in and 165 on fight night. That's a nearly 20lb differential. Floyd's fight time weight of 146-151 is more comparable to the fight time weight of a junior WW or even a large LW.
So if Floyd is being outweighed by so much at WW, why do we expect him to go to 160 and fight an absolute killer, at 38 years old no less. A guy who's never entered a ring weighing more than 151lbs doesn't belong in a weigh class with guys who weigh in at 160 and come to the ring at 170 plus.
That aside, I don't even see why people feel the need for him to move up. It's not like he's cleared the division... the WW division is probably the hottest in boxing right now. There are a lot of young guys I'd love to see him fight. In fact, I'll go on record and say that I think Shawn Porter would beat the shit out of Floyd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did you even read my post? I explicitly said at least twice that Floyd didn't need to do anything. He's already made millions of dollars and been on top of the hill for a while. I said as a boxing fan, I'd like to see Floyd fight GGG because it appears on paper to be a challenging, competitive fight and it would present Floyd with the chance to be the lineal middleweight champion, something he hasn't accomplished yet.
To your point about legacy, adding a lineal middleweight belt to his legacy clearly would improve his legacy. Conversely, losing to the middleweight champion clearly would not lessen it.
I disagree with you though--I wouldn't like to see Floyd face Wlad. That's a farcical fight that in no way shape or form could be competitive. On the other hand, I view Floyd-Sergio Martinez (of two years ago), Floyd-GGG now as competitive fights, where, frankly, I bet many might pick Floyd.
Who would you pick in a fight between Floyd and GGG?
Yes, I read your posts. I never said people wouldn't want to see the fights, I never said beating GGG wouldn't do wonders for Floyd's legacy, and I never said losing to him would detract a lot from his legacy. None of those were the issue and I never came close to bringing any of them up.
My issue is with you suggesting that Floyd owes the fans a move up to 160, and that him moving up to MW is no big deal. When you say things like "he claims he is the best ever and fans have to pay $75 to watch him fight", that implies very unambiguously that Floyd owes boxing fans a GGG fight, and I can quote you directly: " For boxing fans to want him to move up to 160 to fight the most-feared fighter at 160 is not too much to ask at all." I gave reasons why I disagreed with both statements.
As for who wins, GGG would beat him and probably do serious damage to him in the process. A few years ago, I'd have picked Floyd to pull the upset, but at 38 we've seen him decline over the past few years and he just doesn't have the legs to run from GGG all night and he wouldn't be able to tie him up as effectively on the inside as he does to smaller guys. That would be my guess. Unless they were fighting at a catch weight and GGG came in drained.
If I suggested Floyd owed fans a move to 160, I was wrong. Floyd doesn't owe fans anything. That is in line with me saying that Floyd doesn't need to do anything. His legacy is secure for what it is. Same with all the greats of our era.
I never hold it against a fighter for not moving up. If they can make weight in safe fashion, they probably belong at that weight class. Moving up in that kind of situation only can improve a legacy, it can't hurt it. If GGG went up to 168 and was squashed by Froch or Ward, and moved back down to 160, I wouldn't hold it against him, but if he beat Froch or Ward, I would value it higher than beating a top guy at middleweight. At a certain point though, when the division is cleaned out, and no challenging fight can be made at their weight class, it makes sense from a legacy perspective to move up.
Let's consider Cotto. Cotto is no bigger than Floyd. Cotto went up to middleweight and beat Martinez. Cotto did something Floyd hasn't done. The desire to challenge himself at 160 against the middleweight champion of the world even though he didn't have to do it is something that greatly improves his legacy. Boxing fans wanted Cotto to face Martinez and Cotto showed it wasn't too much to ask. To prove that, he took the challenge.
I can only imagine how much you didn't want Cotto to face Martinez. Martinez was too big for him. He was too fast for him. 160 isn't Cotto's natural weight class.
My point was that the weight difference with GGG/Martinez (in the past) with Floyd's other opponents is actually about 5 pounds. 5 pounds is a lot in boxing but it isn't insurmountable for a fighter of Floyd's ability. As evidence, it wasn't insurmountable for Cotto, a guy who Floyd beat.
Also, who are you so excited to see Floyd face at 147-154? Are you really excited about Shawn Porter? I like the guy, but Kell Brook took him to school, and let's be honest, if Brook can do it, can't Floyd?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Why cant ggg step up and face ward.?
Always an excuse.
@imp - this isn't the point of the thread, but I agree with you to an extent. I said last year if GGG cleaned out the division, he should move up because there wouldn't be anything left for him to do at middleweight. Frankly, after Rubio I'm not sure there is anyone else really left at 160 for him to fight. I know he wants Canelo/Cotto, but he isn't going to get them in the same city, let alone a ring. He should move up. Froch or Ward would be great. I wouldn't fault him for either.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Muhammid Ali
HAHA....(You didn't even spell his name right.)
Actually Rocco, it's an Arabic word spelled in English, so there is no right or wrong. Al Qaeda is another example. Bin Laden is another. Every time you post I lose a little more respect for you.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Muhammid Ali
HAHA....(You didn't even spell his name right.)
Actually Rocco, it's an Arabic word spelled in English, so there is no right or wrong. Al Qaeda is another example. Bin Laden is another. Every time you post I lose a little more respect for you.
:appl:
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
If I suggested Floyd owed fans a move to 160, I was wrong. Floyd doesn't owe fans anything. That is in line with me saying that Floyd doesn't need to do anything. His legacy is secure for what it is. Same with all the greats of our era.
I never hold it against a fighter for not moving up. If they can make weight in safe fashion, they probably belong at that weight class. Moving up in that kind of situation only can improve a legacy, it can't hurt it. If GGG went up to 168 and was squashed by Froch or Ward, and moved back down to 160, I wouldn't hold it against him, but if he beat Froch or Ward, I would value it higher than beating a top guy at middleweight. At a certain point though, when the division is cleaned out, and no challenging fight can be made at their weight class, it makes sense from a legacy perspective to move up.
Let's consider Cotto. Cotto is no bigger than Floyd. Cotto went up to middleweight and beat Martinez. Cotto did something Floyd hasn't done. The desire to challenge himself at 160 against the middleweight champion of the world even though he didn't have to do it is something that greatly improves his legacy. Boxing fans wanted Cotto to face Martinez and Cotto showed it wasn't too much to ask. To prove that, he took the challenge.
I can only imagine how much you didn't want Cotto to face Martinez. Martinez was too big for him. He was too fast for him. 160 isn't Cotto's natural weight class.
My point was that the weight difference with GGG/Martinez (in the past) with Floyd's other opponents is actually about 5 pounds. 5 pounds is a lot in boxing but it isn't insurmountable for a fighter of Floyd's ability. As evidence, it wasn't insurmountable for Cotto, a guy who Floyd beat.
Also, who are you so excited to see Floyd face at 147-154? Are you really excited about Shawn Porter? I like the guy, but Kell Brook took him to school, and let's be honest, if Brook can do it, can't Floyd?
Some thoughts on your Floyd/Cotto vs Golovkin/Martinez theory.
Floyd started at 130LBS. Cotto at 140LBs. Cotto is naturally bigger.
Martinez had well documented knee, ankle and broken hand issues going back to 2012. He looked lack lustre in many of his most recent fights. Barker, Macklin & Murray all gave him trouble. He was clearly a fighter on the decline.
In a Floyd vs GGG scenario it's Floyd that is moving up in weight and it's Floyd that's clearly the fighter whose abilities are declining. Are you able to see the difference?
Floyd's style of fighting involves speed, dexterity, movement and sharpness. Cotto's style is more rugged and depends on taking damage to inflict damage. He's used to getting hit in order to put hurt on people. Taking on a fighter like Martinez who had lost his mobility and power because of knee and ankle injuries and broken hands surgeries is not the same thing as an older, slower, less agile and less powerful Mayweather taking on a much bigger, more powerful younger GGG.
Do you see the differences?
Also, I'd like to mention that I chose Cotto to KO Martinez in the Saddo's prediction contest.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Looks like Floyd now has 2 potential champions as candidates to fight for titles at MW! HAhahaha!
But wait. Let me guess. He beat Cotto before so it doesn't count. Taylor was only ranked 15th by the IBF so no credit for that win. RIGHT??!!!
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
If I suggested Floyd owed fans a move to 160, I was wrong. Floyd doesn't owe fans anything. That is in line with me saying that Floyd doesn't need to do anything. His legacy is secure for what it is. Same with all the greats of our era.
I never hold it against a fighter for not moving up. If they can make weight in safe fashion, they probably belong at that weight class. Moving up in that kind of situation only can improve a legacy, it can't hurt it. If GGG went up to 168 and was squashed by Froch or Ward, and moved back down to 160, I wouldn't hold it against him, but if he beat Froch or Ward, I would value it higher than beating a top guy at middleweight. At a certain point though, when the division is cleaned out, and no challenging fight can be made at their weight class, it makes sense from a legacy perspective to move up.
Let's consider Cotto. Cotto is no bigger than Floyd. Cotto went up to middleweight and beat Martinez. Cotto did something Floyd hasn't done. The desire to challenge himself at 160 against the middleweight champion of the world even though he didn't have to do it is something that greatly improves his legacy. Boxing fans wanted Cotto to face Martinez and Cotto showed it wasn't too much to ask. To prove that, he took the challenge.
I can only imagine how much you didn't want Cotto to face Martinez. Martinez was too big for him. He was too fast for him. 160 isn't Cotto's natural weight class.
My point was that the weight difference with GGG/Martinez (in the past) with Floyd's other opponents is actually about 5 pounds. 5 pounds is a lot in boxing but it isn't insurmountable for a fighter of Floyd's ability. As evidence, it wasn't insurmountable for Cotto, a guy who Floyd beat.
Also, who are you so excited to see Floyd face at 147-154? Are you really excited about Shawn Porter? I like the guy, but Kell Brook took him to school, and let's be honest, if Brook can do it, can't Floyd?
Some thoughts on your Floyd/Cotto vs Golovkin/Martinez theory.
Floyd started at 130LBS. Cotto at 140LBs. Cotto is naturally bigger.
Martinez had well documented knee, ankle and broken hand issues going back to 2012. He looked lack lustre in many of his most recent fights. Barker, Macklin & Murray all gave him trouble. He was clearly a fighter on the decline.
In a Floyd vs GGG scenario it's Floyd that is moving up in weight
and it's Floyd that's clearly the fighter whose abilities are declining. Are you able to see the difference?
Floyd's style of fighting involves speed, dexterity, movement and sharpness. Cotto's style is more rugged and depends on taking damage to inflict damage. He's used to getting hit in order to put hurt on people. Taking on a fighter like Martinez who had lost his mobility and power because of knee and ankle injuries and broken hands surgeries is not the same thing as an older, slower, less agile and less powerful Mayweather taking on a much bigger, more powerful younger GGG.
Do you see the differences?
Also, I'd like to mention that I chose Cotto to KO Martinez in the Saddo's prediction contest.
What does style have to do with moving up to capture another lineal title?
It's not just GGG. Why didn't Floyd face Martinez? Cotto did. In fact, many more people asked for Floyd to face Martinez than they are for him to face GGG and people have called for Floyd to fight Martinez for the last 4 years. Martinez himself asked for the Floyd fight many, many times. To Martinez, Cotto was just a consolation prize because he wanted Floyd. Floyd wouldn't take the fight. It's documented. Floyd Sr. said he's too big. He wasn't too big for Cotto.
Why didn't Floyd fight Martinez when Cotto fought Martinez?
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
How about you naysayers answer one of my questions!!!!!
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
@
fan johnny @
Rantcatrat @
mikeeod
What does it prove? It's an entirely different point and off topic.
Why do you consider me a naysayer? Have I ever said Floyd Mayweather isn't a great? Did I ever say he wasn't a great boxer? Whether Floyd makes more money than anyone in boxing's history though isn't important to me. The only difference between you and I is that I could care less about his business decisions whereas you drool over his money and admire his brand. I want to see good fights. I want to see challenging fights. Fights that are close on paper. I'm a
boxing fan.
No! This is the very point of my argument. I've been saying it from the start you've just been ignoring it. You're a small closed minded boxing fan that wants to see the best lose. You have no appreciation for all that Floyd has accomplished within the sport of boxing.
Floyd is The Best Ever because he has elevated himself to the highest level in the sport of boxing.
Answer my one little question.
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?
I hate to even respond to you Rocco, because I'm convinced that you are a troll and a jack ass. Where your thinking is flawed, is we don't want to see Floyd lose, we want to see him WIN. When I watch Floyd fight GGG, it isn't to see Floyd get his head knocked off, it's to watch him put on a masterpiece and confirm that he is as great as I think he is. Floyd vs Ward, or Wlad, or Hop are unrealistic and unfair. Floyd fighting GGG at 154? That's about as fair of a fight as you can get, and even if Floyd loses,naw long as he put on a good performance, he won't lose stature in anyone's eyes.
Who has accomplished more?!? Henry Armstrong held 3 world championships simultaneously when there were only 8 weight classes and one champ per weight. Sugar Ray Robinson beat numerous prime ATG and HOF fighters, and won in spectacular fashion. Muhammad Ali transcended the sport and beat the greatest set of challengers the heavyweight division has ever produced. I can go on but you get the picture.
Here is what you guys do: you go to the extreme when other knowledgable fans state Floyd's greatness, but font go overboard and buy the bs that he is the greatest. For Floyd not to make the Manny fight is unforgivable. That act alone keeps him out of my top 20 ATG. Oscar fought Sweet Pea, Prime Mosely, Prime Hop, Prime Tito, Prime Quartey, undefeated Miguel Gonzalez, 1 loss Vargas...etc. Mosely fought prime Oscar, Prime Floyd, a Prime Forrest, Prime Winky, Prime Cotto...etc. Hop fought Prime a Roy,Prime Tito, Prime Pavilik, Prime Tarver, Prime Winky, Prime Joe C., Prime Dawson, Prime Pascal, Prime Kovalev. All of those guys fought their biggest threats (identified by fans n media) even though those other guys had rival promoters and networks. They made those fights and sought out the biggest challenges to prove their greatness. It's what great fighters do. Floyd did that prior to JLC and I haven't seen him do it since...
You make it sound like GGG deserves the fight?! GGG has fought a bunch of B level fighters and is hardly a household name. Yet you want a Floyd to fight him at a weight that is hardly ideal for either fighter. Get the hell out of here. You are a hater. Even if Floyd fought him and beat him...haters like you will use excuses like "GGG was weight drained", etc.
You make no sense in your argument. You say GGG hasn't beaten anyone and isn't deserving to fight Floyd, yet throw out excuses as to why Floyd would lose. Also, why would I say that I would like to see Floyd fight GGG and the win would be impressive and then make up reasons to diminish it? That is pretty pointless. Also, how am I a hater if I constantly praise Floyd's greatness and skill in the ring? Do you feel that by closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and calling me a hater it somehow cancels out all of the valid points I've made?
I never said i thought Floyd would lose! This fight would NEVER happen at 160...and rightfully so. So if they fought at a catch weight or 154 and Mayweather won...Floyd haters already have the built in excuse that he fought a weight drained fighter. You are also making it seem like fighting and beating GGG is something the public is clamoring for...when in fact GGG is hardly a big name...not to mention that his resume hardly warrants a fight against the biggest name in boxing.
-
Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
What does style have to do with moving up to capture another lineal title?
It's not just GGG. Why didn't Floyd face Martinez? Cotto did. In fact, many more people asked for Floyd to face Martinez than they are for him to face GGG and people have called for Floyd to fight Martinez for the last 4 years. Martinez himself asked for the Floyd fight many, many times. To Martinez, Cotto was just a consolation prize because he wanted Floyd. Floyd wouldn't take the fight. It's documented. Floyd Sr. said he's too big. He wasn't too big for Cotto.
Why didn't Floyd fight Martinez when Cotto fought Martinez?
As I said in my previous post which I assume you simply didn't understand:
Cotto is a naturally bigger fighter who is younger than Floyd. He is accustomed to fighting like a tank and taking punishment to give punishment. His style and temperament are suited to getting hit a lot to land a lot.
Floyd is a more refined fighter whose assets are his speed his movement his agility his dexterity and his power(at lower weight classes). Floyd is at an age where he is not able to move up in weight and bring his entire skill set with him. Floyd is aware of his physical limits. He knows that he is slowing down, becoming less agile, that his legs don't respond as quickly, that the power he possessed at lighter weights isn't as effective in higher weight divisions. He knows that he cannot bulk up anymore than he has and still be effective at a higher weight. This means fighting fighters that are a lot bigger than him is out of the question. Being aware of your body in the ring outside the ring knowing your abilities and limits, when to take a risk and when to be reserved and focused are traits that champions posses.
That's what styles have to do with it. It's a very simple concept. I'm not sure why you can't grasp it.
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Floyd fights cotto at his weight and beats him and theres an excuse.
Cotto beats a one legged martinez and theres no excuse.
What is it with boxing fans defending bigger guys picking on little guys rather than fighting their own weight and higher.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Floyd fights cotto at his weight and beats him and theres an excuse.
Cotto beats a one legged martinez and theres no excuse.
What is it with boxing fans defending bigger guys picking on little guys rather than fighting their own weight and higher.
I disagree with your statement. Cotto is damaged goods and I think most on this forum agree that Cotto was in the right place, at the right time to become mw champ. I have seen numerous posters correctly state that Cotto isn't the best or most daunting MW right now and that GGG and Quillin are superior at that weight.
If Canelo, Quillin, Mayweather or GGG fight Cotto, there will be a new champ for that weight. Most on here, if not all, correctly admire Cotto's desire to fight the best and seek the biggest challenges. Another poster was spot on in saying that Martinez was begging to fight Floyd for years and took Cotto as a consolation. As impressed as I was with Cotto for chasing that fight and as daunting as it appeared to be prior to the first bell, you would have to be blind to not recognize how Sergio's knee hampered his style in the ring.
I would like to see Floyd consistently challenge himself and make a statement by beating the biggest challenge (realistically, not Wlad...etc.) available. Some of the fights weren't Floyd's fault as he did pursue Mosely while Shane was closer to his prime...etc. I still would've lived to have seen Floyd swallow a little ego and fight Kostya, Bradley, Paul Williams, Winky (they were negotiating and had pretty much reached a deal at one point), Sergio Martinez and of course Manny. He never fought them for various reasons but guys in the pantheon like Robinson, Duran, Leonard...etc., would have found a way to make those big fights happen. At least some of them.
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If floyd never fought canelo everyone would be saying he is ducking him.
Be honest.
Floyd is old and still fighting the best out there.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
If floyd never fought canelo everyone would be saying he is ducking him.
Be honest.
Floyd is old and still fighting the best out there.
I think I put Floyd's win over Canelo in proper perspective. It was a good win, and Canelo is younger and larger. I also knew that Floyd would win that pretty easy due to Canelo being one dimensional and relatively inexperienced at that elite level. Still was a good performance.
I also tend to give Floyd more credit than most for his wins over Judah and Baldomir. Judah is awkward and talented and I thought Floyd looked great setting traps and adjusting as the fight went on in that one. Baldy was hitting his stride and was a much bigger man who had developed solid skills. They weren't great wins, but they were better than most give credit for.
I was not impressed with the Cotto win and I wouldn't be impressed if he beat him again. Cotto just isn't what he was in his prime. He has slipped. Floyd's wins over Mosely, Oscar, Sharmba Mitchell and Cotto were diminished in my eyes as those men were not anywhere near their primes at the time.
Young Floyd had the mentality of a great fighter. He had that desire to "slay the dragon" and beat the toughest challenge out there. He CHASED Chico. He DEMANDED that fight to prove his greatness. Same with Castillo. He jumped up with no tune ups and took on the true champ who was hitting his stride and cleaning out the division. Floyd has fought solid competition since then, no doubt. He hasn't strived to prove his greatness and make the really big fights like he used to either, and that is what fans are unhappy about. It isn't hating. It's just being honest and stating why a fighter isn't as great in your personal opinion.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...
Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?
Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)
@mikeeod @Rantcatrat @imp @zhubin
@anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...
Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?
Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)
@
mikeeod @
Rantcatrat @
imp @
zhubin
@anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
Ah, Rocco, my favorite little window licker. I've already stated numerous times who I would've liked to have seen Floyd fight. The tears must blur your vision or something. Right now, there isn't a fighter 154 and down who would give Floyd a great challenge. Manny is still good, but is the smaller man and not the force he was 4 years ago. Danny Garcia, in my opinion, is overrated and loses to the first solid fighter who doesn't take him lightly. Bradley isn't what he was. JMM is waaaay past his best. Thurman is green. Khan is chinny, has stamina issues, and is inconsistent. Kell Brook beat Porter, but that is a far cry from Floyd. Brook needs more seasoning. Andrade is green and not even calling Floyd out. Lara and Floyd together would make me cry from the sheer pacifism and non engagement in the ring. Just to clarify, no one is crying but you. Most of us are having a rational discussion on why we rank Floyd a certain way and who we would like to see him fight. You come out of left field throwing a tantrum like a woman scorned who caught Floyd in bed with her sister. Get a grip.
-
Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
I don't think anyone would complain if Floyd signed to fight Thurman, Brook, Khan, or Pacquiao. After the two Maidana fights, those are all legitimately interesting match ups imo.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
I don't think anyone would complain if Floyd signed to fight Thurman, Brook, Khan, or Pacquiao. After the two Maidana fights, those are all legitimately interesting match ups imo.
I'm not interested in Brook or Thurman at all. I would pay to watch him fight Manny for sure. I probably would pay for a Khan fight, but I wouldn't feel good about it and would hope for Khan to fight up to Floyd's level.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...
Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?
Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)
@
mikeeod @
Rantcatrat @
imp @
zhubin
@anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
Ah, Rocco, my favorite little window licker. I've already stated numerous times who I would've liked to have seen Floyd fight. The tears must blur your vision or something. Right now, there isn't a fighter 154 and down who would give Floyd a great challenge. Manny is still good, but is the smaller man and not the force he was 4 years ago. Danny Garcia, in my opinion, is overrated and loses to the first solid fighter who doesn't take him lightly. Bradley isn't what he was. JMM is waaaay past his best. Thurman is green. Khan is chinny, has stamina issues, and is inconsistent. Kell Brook beat Porter, but that is a far cry from Floyd. Brook needs more seasoning. Andrade is green and not even calling Floyd out. Lara and Floyd together would make me cry from the sheer pacifism and non engagement in the ring. Just to clarify, no one is crying but you. Most of us are having a rational discussion on why we rank Floyd a certain way and who we would like to see him fight. You come out of left field throwing a tantrum like a woman scorned who caught Floyd in bed with her sister. Get a grip.
I didn't ask you who you would have had liked to see him fight in the past but who you would like to see him fight in the future. That's not the same thing. Donkey.
So your answer is no one. Thanks for coming out.
-
Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...
Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?
Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)
@
mikeeod @
Rantcatrat @
imp @
zhubin
@anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
Ah, Rocco, my favorite little window licker. I've already stated numerous times who I would've liked to have seen Floyd fight. The tears must blur your vision or something. Right now, there isn't a fighter 154 and down who would give Floyd a great challenge. Manny is still good, but is the smaller man and not the force he was 4 years ago. Danny Garcia, in my opinion, is overrated and loses to the first solid fighter who doesn't take him lightly. Bradley isn't what he was. JMM is waaaay past his best. Thurman is green. Khan is chinny, has stamina issues, and is inconsistent. Kell Brook beat Porter, but that is a far cry from Floyd. Brook needs more seasoning. Andrade is green and not even calling Floyd out. Lara and Floyd together would make me cry from the sheer pacifism and non engagement in the ring. Just to clarify, no one is crying but you. Most of us are having a rational discussion on why we rank Floyd a certain way and who we would like to see him fight. You come out of left field throwing a tantrum like a woman scorned who caught Floyd in bed with her sister. Get a grip.
I didn't ask you who you would have had liked to see him fight in the past but who you would like to see him fight in the future. That's not the same thing. Donkey.
So your answer is no one. Thanks for coming out.
Another ignorant reply. What started this conversation was my statement that I would like to see Floyd fight GGG. U got butt hurt and started whining. Now you are asking who I'd like to see Floyd fight other than GGG. I told you why GGG, a guy who is willing to make 154, is the one fight left that will impress me. You don't like people's answers so you put silly little caveats on to try and prove some ignorant point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Barring a fight with any current middleweight, super middleweight, lightheavy etc...
Who do you view as a legitimate challenge for Floyd?
Who would you be satisfied with him fighting? (Who would stop your stupid baby whining?)
@
mikeeod @
Rantcatrat @
imp @
zhubin
@anyoneelsewhowantstoanswer
Ah, Rocco, my favorite little window licker. I've already stated numerous times who I would've liked to have seen Floyd fight. The tears must blur your vision or something. Right now, there isn't a fighter 154 and down who would give Floyd a great challenge. Manny is still good, but is the smaller man and not the force he was 4 years ago. Danny Garcia, in my opinion, is overrated and loses to the first solid fighter who doesn't take him lightly. Bradley isn't what he was. JMM is waaaay past his best. Thurman is green. Khan is chinny, has stamina issues, and is inconsistent. Kell Brook beat Porter, but that is a far cry from Floyd. Brook needs more seasoning. Andrade is green and not even calling Floyd out. Lara and Floyd together would make me cry from the sheer pacifism and non engagement in the ring. Just to clarify, no one is crying but you. Most of us are having a rational discussion on why we rank Floyd a certain way and who we would like to see him fight. You come out of left field throwing a tantrum like a woman scorned who caught Floyd in bed with her sister. Get a grip.
Danny garcia overated?
Underated you mean!!..
Leave danny alone.
All he has done is win whether we like his style or not.
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Re: If Floyd never fights Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Another ignorant reply. What started this conversation was my statement that I would like to see Floyd fight GGG. U got butt hurt and started whining. Now you are asking who I'd like to see Floyd fight other than GGG. I told you why GGG, a guy who is willing to make 154, is the one fight left that will impress me. You don't like people's answers so you put silly little caveats on to try and prove some ignorant point.
I've actually explained in about 8 different ways why Floyd will not fight someone like GGG. It's you who either can't understand or are simply unwilling to give any credence to my multifaceted argument. But you also haven't been able to form much of a rebuttal.
