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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.
There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?
Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)
Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.
There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?
Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)
Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)
Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?
Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.
There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?
Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)
Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)
Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?
Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!
That was then, this is now. Wlad has dominated his opposition for years now. And I agree with JimBoogie that dominance is mainly factored into who is an ATG in boxing, of course it would help if they have great opposition. One can't help if they fought in a weak era, but what they can do is dominate it.
Even though he is not an HW, going by your logic one can say Pacquiao is not an ATG (like him or hate him, the general consensus he is one) because he got ko by nobodies in his prime.
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.
There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?
Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)
Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)
Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?
Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!
That was then, this is now. Wlad has dominated his opposition for years now. And I agree with JimBoogie that dominance is mainly factored into who is an ATG in boxing, of course it would help if they have great opposition. One can't help if they fought in a weak era, but what they can do is dominate it.
Even though he is not an HW, going by your logic one can say Pacquiao is not an ATG (like him or hate him, the general consensus he is one) because he got ko by nobodies in his prime.
You're right that it's not his fault it is a weak era, but it IS his fault that he lost (badly) 3 of those fights. Marciano is difficult to rate becuase his era was weak, but at least he baet the weaklings as wasn't brutalised!
When did Pac get Koed in his prime? Pac was Koed 11 years ago after just 20 fights and at least 30 pounds below his prime weight. Wlad was Koed in 2003 and 2004 after already being World Champion for 4 years and after 40 fights (in his prime!)
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I don't care if he has fought 100 times, his resume sucks. It's not his fault that this is one of the weakest era's in Heavyweight history, but it's still a fact
Best Wins
Chris Byrd, Haism Rahman, Sam Pter
Stopped by
Corrie Who?
Ross Who?
Lamont Who?
In the context of all time greats (which is what the thread is about) his record sucks!
....man you know what BigH you're right, I mean people would respect him more had he lost to someone like Oliver McCall or Buster Douglas!
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I don't care if he has fought 100 times, his resume sucks. It's not his fault that this is one of the weakest era's in Heavyweight history, but it's still a fact
Best Wins
Chris Byrd, Haism Rahman, Sam Pter
Stopped by
Corrie Who?
Ross Who?
Lamont Who?
In the context of all time greats (which is what the thread is about) his record sucks!
....man you know what BigH you're right, I mean people would respect him more had he lost to someone like Oliver McCall or Buster Douglas!
Certainly would mate
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?
You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.
There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.
There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?
Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)
Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)
Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?
Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!
Joe Louis ;)
Okay, it's not quite as bad but he did:
* Get KTFO one year before becoming Champion of the world.
* Go on to be the Boxing's most dominant Champion.
* Fight a long list of weak opposition :p
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?
You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.
There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that
Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)
...just get over it, my God you just beat a dead horse....may I add that Lennox Lewis got sparked out with 1 punch from Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall, and as bad as people say Wlad's chin is he's never been sparked with 1 punch.
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)
...just get over it, my God you just beat a dead horse....may I add that Lennox Lewis got sparked out with 1 punch from Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall, and as bad as people say Wlad's chin is he's never been sparked with 1 punch.
Love it when you get all masterful
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!
Name two heavyweights that are still active TODAY with better records.
To be fair he was responding to the OP's claim of both Klitschko's being ATGs, so i think BIG H's comment is in relation to the resumes of other Heavyweight ATGs.
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?
You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.
There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that
Lol, i'm not sure how you can compare Hopkins resume to Wlad's tbh
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?
You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.
There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that
You mean the avenges he gained over corrie sanders and lamon brewster?
Seriously if those guys had of been in any other division than heavyweight they would of been fighting for kid thunders trailer park championship
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Re: After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paddy448
The wlad haye fight is by no means a foregone conclusion. Also comparing wlad with Ali. Come on dave hughey what the fukk man
I would love to see Wlad or Vitali fight Ali, toe to toe in their prime. Wouldn't you?
I personally think every fight fan on earth would want to see that match, and probably every little old lady, high school kid and college professor, too.
And let me ask you this. Would you bet the farm on either fighter?
