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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
You would beat your kid for expressing an entirely valid viewpoint?
Hornfinger has said nothing particularly controversial. Sure, he could have said it with more tact, but ultimately he is quite right. The Vietnam war WAS built upon a deception. The Iraq war was again based upon deception. How dare Hornfinger suggest that those that went there to serve were in some way complicit in the deception and ultimately helped to kill many millions of people. Sure, they may have been ignorant or else just didn't care about the politics, but they still partook in a dishonest war effort. Are you suggesting that he is making that up and is out of line for suggesting that this was the case?
But sure, whip off the belt and beat the kid who reads between the lines. Gotta make those darn kids learn some respect! :rolleyes:
You do not listen miles, you see the word beating and you get all rightist.
The words "Disrespect" and "Common Courtesy" just slip by or having no meaning in this thread. There are no valid reasons for "Disrespect", do not care how old you are. Hiding under "My Opinion" is nothing more than a cope out (Excuse's are like ass holes, every one has one and they use it often). But that's ok, he's young. So are the whole Generation Y, you know, the give it to me, do not deserve it but I want it and I want now generation. Fuck every one else so long as my opinion is heard generation.
What ever happen to family values? Not here, not now. Not in this time.
I am glad I am getting to age when my back on all the excuse's people throw out there and just walk away from it. The ignore button works find here, and I'm getting good use out of it.
BTW, miles, nothing personal in there towards you. ;D
No, it's fine and I can see where you are coming from. As someone who believes very strongly in free speech, I just believe that you have to let people have their platform and more so if they do have valid concerns. If I was a parent nothing could make me prouder than to have a child challenge me on my viewpoints and disagree with me....just so long as they could actually back it up. Otherwise, I would be a bit let down. Maybe then it's time for the big wooden spoon! ;D
When it comes to something like Vietnam, that is where I actually regard someone like Ali as a bit of a hero. He believed it was wrong and said no. There is no greater stand that one can make. In that sense I see where Hornfinger is coming from, if more people had that awareness, courage and sense of conviction then it wouldn't be so easy to start these irrational and awful wars and I mean that for the loss of life on both sides. There was never any need for it.
I saw the other words that you used, but clearly the beating of a child element stood out. I agree that it is better to show respect and courtesy (though I have faltered from time to time :p), but I can't get too upset about the points Hornfinger has made. Generally speaking they are good ones, but I can see how they could piss some people off.
When it comes to things like family values and the like I am actually fairly traditional myself. I present myself as a bit of a left wing atheist snob, but when it comes to homelife I am pretty conservative. In person I am actually very quiet and am very considerate of other people. I kind of expect others to behave the same way. I guess when it comes to the internet though people can sometimes forget their manners and we all do it. Perhaps it's the nature of the beast.
I'm putting the monocle back on and am going to get some fruit jellies. Oh, the joy of having real teeth!
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies. ;)
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies. ;)
Awwww go ahead, you know you want to. :rolleyes:
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies. ;)
Awwww go ahead, you know you want to. :rolleyes:
Nah, can't be bothered! :)
To be honest, I kind of agree with you both about the derailing aspects. But in terms of the actual content of his arguments I just think that he is fairly sound. No big deal. I'm as drawn in as I am going to get and that's quite enough.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.
Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.
He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.
The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.
If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.
Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Bombing afghanistan and iraq is not protecting my freedom, my freedom was never in danger from either of those countries. The faulklands didn't protect my freedom, Vietnam didn't protect my freedom. All were pointless and just cost lives very very needlessly, and were all put into operation on a lie. The sooner people realize this and stop encouraging each other to go out and do these stupid things the sooner we can stop the pointless loss of our loved ones.
In my life time I'm not greatful to the army for anything. NOT ONE THING!
The only thing I am pro war about, is it is the last line of natural selection we have. Although that is not really true anymore when you look at the statistics of troops from the west who died in afghanistan/iraq compared to the number they anhiliated.
Seeing as this is in the 'let's get it on' section of this forum I am breaking no rules by EXPRESSING MY OPINION on this topic.
Not stopping you from expressing your opinion, Far from it.
And you are not breaking any rules in this section of the forum. And thank you for pointing out witch section we are in as any thing goes down. (Forgot that for a moment)
Don't know about your grandparents, but if you were my kid, you would not be walking for a month. Don't give 2 shits where you are from, where your grand parents fought or in witch war. Common courtesy is some thing most kids were taught some years ago. You young fuck wits seem to have lost that training or your parents forgot what it meant. No problem, I can come down to your level and converse in child speak.
Your opinion means jack to me.Could careless what you think about the army, the government or even me. You are so low on my to do list that it might be a year before I even think about you again.
Or in other words, talking about pond scum would be more interesting than listening to the dribble that pours out of your mouth.
You would beat your kid for expressing an entirely valid viewpoint?
Hornfinger has said nothing particularly controversial. Sure, he could have said it with more tact, but ultimately he is quite right. The Vietnam war WAS built upon a deception. The Iraq war was again based upon deception. How dare Hornfinger suggest that those that went there to serve were in some way complicit in the deception and ultimately helped to kill many millions of people. Sure, they may have been ignorant or else just didn't care about the politics, but they still partook in a dishonest war effort. Are you suggesting that he is making that up and is out of line for suggesting that this was the case?
But sure, whip off the belt and beat the kid who reads between the lines. Gotta make those darn kids learn some respect! :rolleyes:
That's not the point, and you're being bias and dismissing the man's words because it doesn't fall in line with yours. The point he and I was talking about earlier was the word RESPECT. You and Hornfinger do know what that word means right?
In this thread take a guess on which member(s) comes in with blatant disrespect insulting the OP? Just take a guess? Yeah you have freedom of speech and all that jazz. And no one is stopping you guys from expressing it. But where is the respect? And the op is a long time member. All he is asking for forum members here is to wish him good luck and that he feels that this is the best option for him in terms of career and money for college.
You and Hornfinger seriously have a problem with that? I've been here on this forum for almost 2 years and almost every single one of the guy's post is a windup to get under the skin of other people. We all do it from time to time. But the guy does it constantly and this thread isn't for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
why do you want to waste your life?
I cannot think of anything worse or more pointless.
Unless you like killing poor, weaker people than yourself to rob their country of their natural recourses of course.
You don't see the blatant disrespect in this 1st post of your buddy in this thread? And Ghost is right, this generation has a major problem with the words respect and common courtesy.
With your way of thinking and reasoning I can go tell my neighbor right in her face that I don't like her and think she's a disgusting old hag and say, "Hey I'm just expressing my opinion, nothing controversial about my view." But you know what? It's rude, disrespectful, crass, and lacks any sense of decency or courtesy as a neighbor.
So if someone posts up a thread saying I'm off to join the KKK and burn black people for a living or go on a spree raping and killing women we should all say 'ah good for you mate, hope it works out for you' right?
It's called freedom of speech sunshine. It's what your constitution used to stand for and what people used to fight their own government for. These days people like you are to blind/stupid to realize that you are giving support to abolish the right of freedom of speech. What are the army doing to protect that? Nothing cuz they're off bombing afghanistan.
Freedom of speech as long as it's supporting the government and their policies right?
Popular speech doesn't need protecting it's unpopular speech like mine that does. For instances like this.
Joining the army for college money is a bullshit excuse. In the words of Doug Stanhope, 'If your dumb enough to join the army chances are college ain't gonna help'
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I'm joining the Army just to spite Miles and Hornfinger.:D I hope I get to kill some innocents and babies that sounds like fun.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Bombing afghanistan and iraq is not protecting my freedom, my freedom was never in danger from either of those countries. The faulklands didn't protect my freedom, Vietnam didn't protect my freedom. All were pointless and just cost lives very very needlessly, and were all put into operation on a lie. The sooner people realize this and stop encouraging each other to go out and do these stupid things the sooner we can stop the pointless loss of our loved ones.
In my life time I'm not greatful to the army for anything. NOT ONE THING!
The only thing I am pro war about, is it is the last line of natural selection we have. Although that is not really true anymore when you look at the statistics of troops from the west who died in afghanistan/iraq compared to the number they anhiliated.
Seeing as this is in the 'let's get it on' section of this forum I am breaking no rules by EXPRESSING MY OPINION on this topic.
Not stopping you from expressing your opinion, Far from it.
And you are not breaking any rules in this section of the forum. And thank you for pointing out witch section we are in as any thing goes down. (Forgot that for a moment)
Don't know about your grandparents, but if you were my kid, you would not be walking for a month. Don't give 2 shits where you are from, where your grand parents fought or in witch war. Common courtesy is some thing most kids were taught some years ago. You young fuck wits seem to have lost that training or your parents forgot what it meant. No problem, I can come down to your level and converse in child speak.
Your opinion means jack to me.Could careless what you think about the army, the government or even me. You are so low on my to do list that it might be a year before I even think about you again.
Or in other words, talking about pond scum would be more interesting than listening to the dribble that pours out of your mouth.
Like wise so you have no problem with me saying what I'm saying.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
You know Ghost theres a massive difference between our grandparents and parents joining the army to fight the war. This issue can be down to two words; Gain or Protect
Only yesterday some of our good old Australian army boys in Afghanistan were caught on facebook and texting saying they want to squash some sand niggers etc.that the locals stink and should be eradicated etc.One said he cant wait to run some fukker down in his tank. The percentage of mindless numnuts involved these days is much larger than in days past.
Our Grand parents and Parents were mostly of a different cut.
We also got picked on back then and there was a threat to us all at home and in the whole the world. The Japs wouldnt have stopped, the Germans wouldnt have stopped either. They threw the first punch both times.
We do the traveling to fight now and it is sold to us through the false religion excuse thats used by both sides on both sides. In reality it is control of people through oil prices and finances that is at the top priority of both 'sides'. Both sides leaders dupe their populations into hating each other. I see both 'sides' as actually being against freedom for all people. Most people dont want sides or conflict most want the cash wasted on battle poured into feeding dying countries and into fighting the evil bastards hurting those innocents on ground level.
We are shitting into nature,on animals and on other people and we are getting sold the excuses for why we can do it. Why we can allow a whole country to starve to death and yet we have to go and fight for another countries people! Bull shit! right there is living proof that it is all bull shit we are being fed.
You want to fight for that to continue? I dont. But I wont stop others their choice to do so because that would be control of their freedom of choice.
Wait until there is no finance to fight over, no oil price to control, no power grids to protect and all of our communications are down world wide. Even when the excuses for why are removed, some people will still continue to shoot others for gain and control. Thats where the line will be finally drawn. Long live the real protectors of others ;).
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Like wise so you have no problem with me saying what I'm saying.
You and miles are a pair. Both can not read or only read the parts you want to comment on.
Do I have a problem with you being a Bigot and a Racist? Nope. There are too many in the world to try and have a problem with that.
Do I have a problem with you using the label "Freedom of Speech" to offer your opinion on a forum. Nope, that's what people fought and died for since before you were born, my self included. The fact that you use it as blanket excuse to shit on people. You bet I do
Do I have a problem with your generation's lack of "Respect" and "Common Courtesy" of those around you and other peoples rights. You bet I do. But I blame the governments of the world for that and your parents. When they took away the right's of the parents to discipline their children, you'r generation is the result. "God" help those that follow this generation.
I could spend at least a week listing all the "Rights" of others this generation shit on daily, but I don't have the time or the energy to explain to you or any one else on here where your family made their mistakes in raising you.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Like wise so you have no problem with me saying what I'm saying.
You and miles are a pair. Both can not read or only read the parts you want to comment on.
Do I have a problem with you being a Bigot and a Racist? Nope. There are too many in the world to try and have a problem with that.
Do I have a problem with you using the label "Freedom of Speech" to offer your opinion on a forum. Nope, that's what people fought and died for since before you were born, my self included. The fact that you use it as blanket excuse to shit on people.
You bet I do
Do I have a problem with your generation's lack of "Respect" and "Common Courtesy" of those around you and other peoples rights.
You bet I do. But I blame the governments of the world for that and your parents. When they took away the right's of the parents to discipline their children, you'r generation is the result. "God" help those that follow this generation.
I could spend at least a week listing all the "Rights" of others this generation shit on daily, but I don't have the time or the energy to explain to you or any one else on here where your family made their mistakes in raising you.
Well said old man.
Speaking of lacking respect and common courtesy. A while back there was a bigot going on how he hated foreigners at this art gallery that many artists came together to show off our work. You wouldn't believe the nasty comments coming out. A festive atmosphere of enthusiastic artists from all walks of life getting together talking about art turned into an awkward and tense atmosphere. The idiot at the art gallery can say what he wants, but the piece of crap lacked any sense of decency, respect, or common courtesy. He also used the whole "freedom of speech" and "personal opinion" and "I'm in a free country, I can say what I want," excuse. Sounds familiar?
People like Ghost and myself aren't offended by people's different opinions, we are offended by the manner on how it is said.
And since Ghost and myself had to point out which parts of your "freedom of speech/opinion" was rude, disgusting, crass, and impolite, then your parents and community did a piss poor job of giving you any sense of respect, courtesy, or decent values.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.
I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I am not that offended really, but am just pointing out that sometimes those harping on about courtesy can also come across as arrogant and rude in their own ways too. Respect works on many levels.
The only times I really get offended are when people go on a sad click rampage (I'm quite over that now though) or call me names in an aggressive manner. That usually happens when I express a particular opinion about something. It bewilders me actually that people can be so offended by an opinion that they they just start cussing and calling names. I'm not talking about Ghost here at all who has never done that, but just giving my general thoughts about when others become rude and disrespectful. On the whole I try not to call names or insult people, but I do sometimes snap after someone calls me a name and I retaliate, on the whole I try not to though. The only time I have really gone off the deep end was with Yuri Foreman, but thankfully he doesn't post here. Usually I am man enough to apologise if I think I have gone a bit too far and every man should have the courage to do so. Not everyone can though.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I feel like posting some more, so I will.
Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.
Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
See what I mean, No Contest is loving the attention. He is even urging me to comment on the Palestinian issue. That's how laid back he is about it all. That is what I like, a top fellow.
As for the rockets being fired into Israel, well I wish they wouldn't do that. But likewise, I really wish that the Israeli's wouldn't build settlements on illegally occupied lands. The whole thing is a mighty clusterfuck and only Norman Finkelstein can make any sense of it all. You see how the US holds their hand and says that what the Gazan's are doing is 'repugnant' but at the same time it is repugnant that in the UN the US refuses to endorse a resolution condemning the settlements as illegal or how the blockade was tolerated for so many years. A very obvious case of the US taking sides and acting in an extremely questionable manner.
That's all I am going to say on that issue as I want to see where Hornfinger takes this thread next. Though I am sure Booze is devising some kind of SALT 3 or something along those lines.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
See what I mean, No Contest is loving the attention. He is even urging me to comment on the Palestinian issue. That's how laid back he is about it all. That is what I like, a top fellow.
As for the rockets being fired into Israel, well I wish they wouldn't do that. But likewise, I really wish that the Israeli's wouldn't build settlements on illegally occupied lands. The whole thing is a mighty clusterfuck and only Norman Finkelstein can make any sense of it all. You see how the US holds their hand and says that what the Gazan's are doing is 'repugnant' but at the same time it is repugnant that in the UN the US refuses to endorse a resolution condemning the settlements as illegal or how the blockade was tolerated for so many years. A very obvious case of the US taking sides and acting in an extremely questionable manner.
That's all I am going to say on that issue as I want to see where Hornfinger takes this thread next. Though I am sure Booze is devising some kind of SALT 3 or something along those lines.
BILBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?!!?!!
Notice it was all quiet just building houses for people to live in, then bam rockets. Nice way to get your point across I guess, what happened to peaceful protests?:p
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I feel like posting some more, so I will.
Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.
Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.
Ah, but here's the thing Miles, never has anyone in this thread has a problem with any dissenting voice it was the manner in that it was presented, the troll's 1st post was on how the guy was wasting his life in joining the military and that he was going to murder and bully people just because he likes to. To you that is not disrepectfull or rude, but to others it is. And about addressing or rebutting it? It was done by Vanchilds who attempted to humor the troll a few pages back. And Ghost is right you are very selective in what you want to read where you pick and choose and tend to put words in other people's mouth and then try to rebut that imaginary viewpoint that others didn't put forth. Him and I never did once said we had problems with other people's opinions as you and the troll asserted. And don't forget it was Ghost and I that brought up about other people's viewpoints, opinions, and freedom of speech. It was you and the troll that asserted we were against the dissenting opinion.
BTW, Booze gave his opinion. I don't have a problem with it and I'm pretty sure others don't. Why? Because it wasn't rude, crass, and disrespectful. Hell even VD gave his opinion and it wasn't rude.
One last thing don't put words in other people's mouth or misinterpret it when you're trying to debate. I'm pretty sure you know what strawman arguments are.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I feel like posting some more, so I will.
Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.
Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.
Ah, but here's the thing Miles, never has anyone in this thread has a problem with any dissenting voice it was the manner in that it was presented, the troll's 1st post was on how the guy was wasting his life in joining the military and that he was going to murder and bully people just because he likes to. To you that is not disrepectfull or rude, but to others it is. And about addressing or rebutting it? It was done by Vanchilds who attempted to humor the troll a few pages back. And Ghost is right you are very selective in what you want to read where you pick and choose and tend to put words in other people's mouth and then try to rebut that imaginary viewpoint that others didn't put forth. Him and I never did once said we had problems with other people's opinions as you and the troll asserted. And don't forget it was Ghost and I that brought up about other people's viewpoints, opinions, and freedom of speech. It was you and the troll that asserted we were against the dissenting opinion.
BTW, Booze gave his opinion. I don't have a problem with it and I'm pretty sure others don't. Why? Because it wasn't rude, crass, and disrespectful. Hell even VD gave his opinion and it wasn't rude.
One last thing don't put words in other people's mouth or misinterpret it when you're trying to debate. I'm pretty sure you know what strawman arguments are.
I have already said that I think Hornfinger could use a little more tact, but at the end of the day No Contest seems pretty cool about everything so I don't really get why it is such a big deal.
And I do not put words in peoples mouths. You did that yesterday by falsely quoting me, but it was done in humour and it was funny. That is putting words in peoples mouths, all I do is take the part of the argument that I have issues with and then I hash it out. I have already said I agree with aspects of what Ghost said, but take exception to the bullying tone of something like "if you were my kid then you wouldn't sit down for a month". I don't like that and I said as much. Now where does this imply that I am skipping anything? I have skipped nothing, but simply raised my concerns about the part that I didn't actually agree with.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
You know Ghost theres a massive difference between our grandparents and parents joining the army to fight the war. This issue can be down to two words; Gain or Protect
To a point, I agree. In today's world that is.
Quote:
Only yesterday some of our good old Australian army boys in Afghanistan were caught on facebook and texting saying they want to squash some sand niggers etc.that the locals stink and should be eradicated etc.One said he cant wait to run some fukker down in his tank. The percentage of mindless numnuts involved these days is much larger than in days past.
And which generation are they. And where are they leading us to?
Quote:
Our Grand parents and Parents were mostly of a different cut.
We also got picked on back then and there was a threat to us all at home and in the whole the world. The Japs wouldnt have stopped, the Germans wouldnt have stopped either. They threw the first punch both times.
We do the traveling to fight now and it is sold to us through the false religion excuse thats used by both sides on both sides. In reality it is control of people through oil prices and finances that is at the top priority of both 'sides'. Both sides leaders dupe their populations into hating each other. I see both 'sides' as actually being against freedom for all people. Most people dont want sides or conflict most want the cash wasted on battle poured into feeding dying countries and into fighting the evil bastards hurting those innocents on ground level.
We are shitting into nature,on animals and on other people and we are getting sold the excuses for why we can do it. Why we can allow a whole country to starve to death and yet we have to go and fight for another countries people! Bull shit! right there is living proof that it is all bull shit we are being fed.
You want to fight for that to continue? I dont. But I wont stop others their choice to do so because that would be control of their freedom of choice.
The "War" part of this thread has nothing to do with "My" issue's dealing with this thread. No Contest has made his choice and I can respect that. I have always been out spoken on issue's dealing with "Freedom of Speech", Freedom of Choice", "Animal Right's", "Property Rights" and a list of other issues. I am on more government watch list then you can shake a stick at.
As for the rest of your post, time will tell how true it becomes and which generation hands it over
Quote:
Wait until there is no finance to fight over, no oil price to control, no power grids to protect and all of our communications are down world wide. Even when the excuses for why are removed, some people will still continue to shoot others for gain and control. Thats where the line will be finally drawn. Long live the real protectors of others ;).
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.
I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.
Guess you have never been spanked when you were a kid, miles. Spanking has nothing to do with "violence". I am Not talking about beating a child to within an inch of their lives here. There is A Big difference.
Not one of my kids would dis-respect people the way they do here in this section of the forum and I have 5 kids, all over the age of 30. My kids will show people the respect they deserve because of the way they were raised and the discipline they received when they were young. Take note, I said discipline, not "Beating".
Rude? Calling you a pussy wiped sadsack, baby killing SOB would be rude. Telling you that you did not read my post correctly or mis-quoted me, is correcting a mis-understanding. Again, Big difference.
I have no problems with your point of views on politics, religion or any thing else you want to post about. Or anyone else's. I do have a problem with being mis-quoted, mis-read and people in general who try and shove their point of view down my throat, under the banner of "Freedom of Speech".
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.
I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.
Guess you have never been spanked when you were a kid, miles. Spanking has nothing to do with "violence". I am Not talking about beating a child to within an inch of their lives here. There is A Big difference.
Not one of my kids would dis-respect people the way they do here in this section of the forum and I have 5 kids, all over the age of 30. My kids will show people the respect they deserve because of the way they were raised and the
discipline they received when they were young. Take note, I said discipline, not "Beating".
Rude? Calling you a pussy wiped sadsack, baby killing SOB would be rude. Telling you that you did not read my post correctly or mis-quoted me, is correcting a mis-understanding. Again, Big difference.
I have no problems with your point of views on politics, religion or any thing else you want to post about. Or anyone else's. I do have a problem with being mis-quoted, mis-read and people in general who try and shove their point of view down my throat, under the banner of "Freedom of Speech".
Yes, I was hit as a child and though on some occasions it was warranted, on numerous others it was simply because my mother was poorly equipped to be a parent and wasn't willing to put the time in to understand her children. Basically I have grown up to rebel against everything that my parents have stood for in their lives and one of those things is needless violence. I just don't think that is fair, but like I say I can understand the occasional slap. I don't think our core values are all that far apart really, but that comment about not being able to sit down for a month, seemed a somewhat harsh thing to say to another poster well into his 20's. I don't think I have any problems with you nor GB, but did feel it unfair to single me out for not reading what you said. I did read and understand what you said. In fact I agreed with the vast bulk of it.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.
Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.
He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.
The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.
If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.
Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.
That guy is an asshole anyway ;D
In all seriousness Booze is correct that joining any military service is a serious decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. For one, the military is more than just a job it is a lifestyle and people need to think long and hard if they can conform to it b/c if they can't their time in uniform will be unpleasant. Two, while a very small percent of the U.S. military has ever had to actually pull the trigger it is something to be considered. No Contest should put serious thought into how he feels about the prospect of using lethal force. Its not cool or glamorous and I have never nor have I ever allowed my Soldiers to act like they just scored a game winning goal. In the end it is really impossible to know how you will react in the instant and afterward. Lastly, the military doesn't create foreign policy they execute it. So No Contest should be aware that he might be told to go to a foreign country for a mission he doesn't really believe in. Honestly I've never sat around thinking a whole lot about what the over arching strategic meaning of my deployment was. If I wasn't in uniform, some other guy would be leading the same eight Soldiers I am, so I'd just as soon it be me. I didn't address these issues in my first post b/c quite frankly it is my experience that people have reconciled them before they step into an Army recruiters office. Hornfinger's isn't wrong to challenge No Contests desire to serve I just wish he would have shown a little more class in doing it. Lastly military member's roles are often equated just to the conflicts we see on the news. As I pointed out earlier there is a tremendous amount of real service and humanitarian aid carried out that has nothing to do with putting lead down range. If you are a victim of a horrific natural disaster around the world there is a good chance that a U.S. service member is somewhere nearby helping people.
By the way this thread has gotten really strange.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Totally, this thread has become extremely weird. I have managed to get embroiled in a thread about the army without even giving my opinions on that subject. I don't know what's going on. Parental disciplinary strategies appear to have been the very next thing on my agenda along with a desire to see Hornfinger follow through with the kind of arguments that I promised myself I would abstain from. But yes, it has become downright strange.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.
Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.
In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.
Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.
In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.
Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but I essentially agree with your post. Yes, if you join to a certain extent you are at the very least giving a modicum of endorsement. But how far back and deep does that go? I joined in 2004, so am I complicit in the Vietnam War and everything that went with it? If No Contest joins in 2011 is he endorsing the Iraq War? Not really sure there is a cut and dry answer. Some people just want to serve in the military, I don't think this equates to a lock step endorsement of every military action prior to, during and after their service.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.
So go and be clerk somewhere else.
Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?
Get what I'm saying?
Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.
So go and be clerk somewhere else.
Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?
Get what I'm saying?
Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.
There are only two people who touch the football everyplay. The center and the QB. The QB is instrumental on just about everying scoring play/drive so the analogy doesn't really work. Handling a battalion's finance paper work does not really equate to being the one indespensable cog in the nation's war machine.
I got a good friend in the Navy who has not spent a day in Iraq or Afghanistan but worked in Pakistan doing the flood relief, Haiti doing medical evacs and is now in Japan doing god knows what. My point is there is a huge amount of good being done by service members yet you seem totally fixated on the "every Soldier is a blood thirst killer"
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.
Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.
In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.
Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but I essentially agree with your post. Yes, if you join to a certain extent you are at the very least giving a modicum of endorsement. But how far back and deep does that go? I joined in 2004, so am I complicit in the Vietnam War and everything that went with it? If No Contest joins in 2011 is he endorsing the Iraq War? Not really sure there is a cut and dry answer. Some people just want to serve in the military, I don't think this equates to a lock step endorsement of every military action prior to, during and after their service.
I actually think we are pretty close on this one. You guys have a good weekend!
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.
So go and be clerk somewhere else.
Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?
Get what I'm saying?
Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.
There are only two people who touch the football everyplay. The center and the QB. The QB is instrumental on just about everying scoring play/drive so the analogy doesn't really work. Handling a battalion's finance paper work does not really equate to being the one indespensable cog in the nation's war machine.
I got a good friend in the Navy who has not spent a day in Iraq or Afghanistan but worked in Pakistan doing the flood relief, Haiti doing medical evacs and is now in Japan doing god knows what. My point is there is a huge amount of good being done by service members yet you seem totally fixated on the "every Soldier is a blood thirst killer"
You can do aid work in all thses countries without being in the military.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.
But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'
From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.
I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.
So go and be clerk somewhere else.
Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?
Get what I'm saying?
Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.
There are only two people who touch the football everyplay. The center and the QB. The QB is instrumental on just about everying scoring play/drive so the analogy doesn't really work. Handling a battalion's finance paper work does not really equate to being the one indespensable cog in the nation's war machine.
I got a good friend in the Navy who has not spent a day in Iraq or Afghanistan but worked in Pakistan doing the flood relief, Haiti doing medical evacs and is now in Japan doing god knows what. My point is there is a huge amount of good being done by service members yet you seem totally fixated on the "every Soldier is a blood thirst killer"
You can do aid work in all thses countries without being in the military.
With job security and bodily protection? ;D
Sorry, Im actually with you on this, only because I know exactly whos bidding i would be forced into doing if in there myself.
I can still see both sides of the issue though.
We cant just tar everyone with the same brush in or out of the forces.
:army: If it stands still paint it, if it moves salute it :army:
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Cute photos Andre.
http://www.freefoto.com/images/01/16...b.jpg?&k=Sheep
Aussie's at work according to movie's put out by the Federal government.
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Re: I am attempting to join the ARMY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
This is our harem of fine females you infidel you now have a fatwah on your head! :mad:
Fat wah: Fat = something big. wah= "wah ha!" from the Simpson s character.:)
