Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable

Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??

Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!

Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.

Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??

Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!

Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.

Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??

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Waste of time talking about it now calzaghe is retired. I would like to see hjm fight bute to decide who really is number one at the devision. Then fight Martinez. Martinez is always going on about fighting the best and if Ward beats Bute he is the best in that devision. So that is the dream match up I would like to see.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??

Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!

Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.

Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??

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Hopkins was an easy win for Calzaghe. It was made ugly by Hopkins spoiling, but it was decisive and convincing. Calzaghe strolled on down to the finish from the 4th onwards. An opening blip, a little recalculation and then boom, Hopkins was nullified.

Ward is no Hopkins either. There are stylistic similarities, but also serious questions about Ward. He doesn't have stamina and would be blowing out of his bottom by the half way mark. As if Ward is going to put Calzaghe down or keep up with him. It is laughable.

Calzaghe is a pussy? He isn't the one trying to make beautiful manlove with his opponents every fight or rub his face in another man's face. He's horrible to watch, whilst Calzaghe in his pomp was exciting and full of non-spoiling action.

Ward would never be up 10 rounds against Calzaghe. Who on this earth has ever taken more than 4 rounds off of Calzaghe? A slow plodder like Froch was able to take 3 against Ward, does anyone think Calzaghe would tire against Froch or give rounds away. It is a ludicrous notion.

Admittedly there was a 'let's shag Hopkins' moment, but that was taunting. Ward does it because grappling is all he has, he couldn't outbox Calzaghe as he would be outworked, it would be back to the old 'let's have a hug and I will hit you on the break'. Calzaghe is quicker and would let his hands go with far more confidence than Ward who gets tired and holds and knows he cannot let the chin up for too long.

It's a mismatch really. Ward isn't terribly good and would get busted up over the long haul as Calzaghe punishes his opponents and doesn't stop them. What's Ward realistically going to do against Calzaghe? He has fought nobody like the guy, Calzaghe has already shown he can outwork dirty spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??

Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!

Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.

Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??

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Ward was good in the super six but barely lost a round is a bit much

He lost 4+ to froch, more to aa than either froch or dirrell did

He also fought green who noone lost a round to

Yes he won most of the rounds against kes (with his head)

Hes good mate but this is another example of someone over egging it

I dont over rate Ward at all. Froch sucks..he has no ring intelligence but can bang and has great stamina/chin.

But again..its easy for Calzaghe not to be a pussy when he's in the ring against shit opposition...he's a pussy for not fighting anybody of note in their prime.

For me Hopkins won the Calzaghe fight and almost every single boxer/trainer i spoke to felt the same. Ward would know exactly how to negate Calzaghe wild bitch slaps.

But like the poster after me said..no point discussing it now when he's retired..aka..PUSSY

Thats the last I speak on Joe the shite waste of talent Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Althugz

I dont over rate Ward at all. Froch sucks..he has no ring intelligence but can bang and has great stamina/chin.

But again..its easy for Calzaghe not to be a pussy when he's in the ring against shit opposition...he's a pussy for not fighting anybody of note in their prime.

For me Hopkins won the Calzaghe fight and almost every single boxer/trainer i spoke to felt the same. Ward would know exactly how to negate Calzaghe wild bitch slaps.

But like the poster after me said..no point discussing it now when he's retired..aka..PUSSY

Thats the last I speak on Joe the shite waste of talent Calzaghe

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hopkins didnt beat calzaghe, the only issue i have with that fight was it was a split decision

Hopkins clearly won the first 4 rounds, with the knockdown he was 5 up

calzaghe clearly won the last 8

but at least the right man got the decision

you are obviously very down on him for some reason so theres not much point in having a argument about it with you

but to say froch sucks is a bit harsh, look at the two fighters routes to the final, froch has been brilliant for boxing and has made the super six a success despite losing the final

What would have happened if Froch woulnt have been in the competition? who would have made the final? what if Ward would have had to do the travelling that some of the other fighters did?

I have done a couple of polls on who people thought won between Hopkins and Calzaghe and Calzaghe always wins by a considerable margin. He outlanded Hopkins something silly.

And let's not pretend that that was Calzaghe at his best either. Withered hands and a high energy fighter at 36? Calzaghe was on the slide too, but he was still far too much for a savvy Hopkins. He always would have been as the younger Calzaghe would have hurt Hopkins more.

So Froch sucks and yet why did he win 3 rounds against Ward? Was it charity? Are we suggesting that Froch is in any comparable to the unorthodox, high output style of Calzaghe? It's nonsense and an obvious extension that Ward be taken into deep waters and lose a lot more rounds. I couldn't see him winning rounds against Calzaghe TBH. Early on for sure, but once the adjustments are made and Calzaghe is set on what he needs to do, Ward is done for.

Ward has beaten nobody that Calzaghe couldn't beat better. Ward is a novice and has so much more to do.

And Calzaghe did face in their prime fighters. Everyone overseas was saying Lacy would destroy Joe. Kessler was supposedly a pick 'em fight. Hindsight means those opponents are discounted, but pre injury Lacy was better than people say. Kessler was undefeated and hungry.

Wards biggest win is Kessler and Calzaghe beat him much more impressively.

I need make no further points as I said in my last post..you guys make all the points for me! Apart from prime Kessler, Lacy is Calzaghes biggest win..lmao listen to yourselves...

I havent followed Wards career but have read a few times he used to try and fight like Jones. Is that up until he nearly got stopped by Boon? Has he changed in to Ruiz since then? Bika also had him holding for dear life during the last 2 rounds.

That is the only reason Ward is effective, the holding. Without that he has to fight. Calzaghe is about the only fighter that has the workrate, angles and speed to make Ward think twice about coming in. With Froch it was easy, hes not that quick and loads up, which probably is what makes him slow. If he has natural strength which everyone says he does, then he should concentrate on just being sharp and landing and not just one shot at a time. He would have done a hell of alot better and it would only take a win or 2 to get the rematch as now the super 6 is over, everyone is going to go back to avoiding each other. Froch is now in a pretty good position business wise as he is a beatable big name opponent who will travel. He even has Bute thinking of travelling for fuck sake!;D

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.

Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.

Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.

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Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!

Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

I need make no further points as I said in my last post..you guys make all the points for me! Apart from prime Kessler, Lacy is Calzaghes biggest win..lmao listen to yourselves...

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IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win

It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe

hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

I think the opinion was that if Froch won the super six, his legacy would be better than that of Calzaghe. This was a thread we discussed in depth , well didnt Ward win the super six ?

Ward beat a much better opposition than Calzaghe , how can Mr Play it safe find fault with Ward.
Isnt a fool wise after the event.

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Who though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.

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You dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?

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Calzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Sheika

Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda

There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.

The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.

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You mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?

Sheika had lost to Tony Booth for fucks sake.

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Yet beaten Glen Johnson.

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The Glen Johnson, Calzaghe was deadly afraid to face.

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Yep the same Glen Johnson that Sheika had just beat before Calzaghe smashed him all over the ring.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Althugz

I need make no further points as I said in my last post..you guys make all the points for me! Apart from prime Kessler, Lacy is Calzaghes biggest win..lmao listen to yourselves...

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IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win

It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe

hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him

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Althguz thinks all British fighters are shit, pussy, overrated etc...

Oh sorry, apart from his mate Larry Olubamiwo, he was a guy to look out for (:LOLATYOU:)

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years ??? But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH! ;D

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joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

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I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years ??? But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH! ;D

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joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

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I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

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It's not as though Ward has never been hurt before or been clinging to survive. He is extremely vulnerable, but the likes of Froch and Green are not going to be able to do anything because they are a rung or even 2 below the level that Calzaghe brought to the division.

It's easy to state that Ward is a technician, but since when has that ever bothered Calzaghe who has shown he can outwork crafty fighters. Ward has never fought anyone like Joe Calzaghe. It would be a real eye opener for him and I can see him being shell shocked after a couple of rounds. He was looking panicky against Froch towards the end. Since when has Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather ever look panicky. It would be like Floyd getting tired after ten against Baldomir and start clinging on for dear life. It just doesn't happen. Ward is simply not on that level and chin and stamina are his weaknesses.

Calzaghe has most of his opponents doing the Iggy Pop thousand yard stare by the half way mark. Ward would be no different. He is savvy with the clinching etc, but overall does nothing particularly outstanding. I don't see how he can trouble Calzaghe. Calzaghe would rip him with 4 punches before Octopus man gets his grip around him. Rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years ??? But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.

Hmmm...

Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.

REMATCH! ;D

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joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?

every other fight he had were pretty confortable

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I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.

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which fights was he decked hurt against which lesser opposition?

he was first decked and the first time he looked in the slightest bit hurt was against byron mitchell and he blasted him away the next round

then that salaman whatever his name was decked him but im sure he won every round in that fight appart from that one

bika bloodied his face but all with the head and joe was never hurt in the fight, again joe won every round bar 1 or 2, did a much better job than ward did on bika

then hopkins puts him down, flash knock down, and joe won that fight comfortably

then jones put him down (which was the only other time he actually looked hurt as well as against Mitchell) and that was the only round he lost

At this point in his career Ward wouldnt beat Joe Calzaghe and he would have to improve greatly to have any chance

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

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mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was

every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.

I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.

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mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was

every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in

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I watched it again this evening just to recap and I was appalled.

Granted it was Ward on the major stage for the first time, but he has got away with it ever since. It was a shameful performance and I really believe Kessler deserves a rematch and that he would do much better.

Kessler had no expectation of any of that nastiness. He paid the penalty.

And then Ward launches into his 'Good lord' spiel afterwards and his wife of course was interviewed during the fight and declared that Ward was fighting for his Lord or something like that. Completely brainwashed weirdos.

And like many Christians they fight dirty and then pray to the lord for forgiveness afterwards. You cheated, you were horrible. 'Oh but the good lord forgives those that buy into the babble'.

Cue projectile vomiting.

I think Hopkins had to dig deep against Calzaghe, mentally. It look at one point like he'd begun to loose interest but managed to fight very competitively in the championship rounds basically levelling things out.

Mayweather during something like rounds 2 to 4 was looking pretty heated by Ricky's constant proximity before he adjusted.

Ward was underpressure more in the last 12 rounds than any other round so of course mentally, given frochs reputation, it's gonna disturb you a bit. I assumed Ward would of had him all figured out but I guess your prone to wilt a little when you've been doin everything right for 85% of the fight and you suddenly realise it just stopped working.

Calzaghe definately has a superior mentality in that respect because indeed he can rise from a knockdown, hurt and still say 'I'm better than you' and just go out swinging. To want to out 'Roy Jones' Roy Jones himself and to just be audacious in the ring. He looked lost against Hopkins untill he started to outwork and harass him. But that's Hopkins. A man who since 2004 had been on Eco mode... Just doesn't reflect what Andre Ward is capable of doing in the ring.

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.

Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.

Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.

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Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!

Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.

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I didn't say anything about "the reason" Calzaghe didn't fight them; but the fact is, he didn't. Again, just pick up a Ring Magazine during the Calzaghe era. You'll see lots of names in the top-5 that Calzaghe never fought. Sorry, I missed the earlier debates, but why are supposed to ignore Echols and Mundine? They were #s 3 and 4 in the 2003 and 2004 annual rankings, when Calzaghe was defending against people like Kabary Salem and Mger Mkrtchyan. But those are hardly the only names. Look at Calzaghe's record, and look at the names of the people in the top 5 during his time as a top 168-pound champion and contender.

Ward is 27, and he's beaten three of the top 5 in the weight class, and four of the top 10.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

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Opinion and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

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Opinion and nothing else.

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As is all of your speculation about what would happen in a second Ward-Kessler fight, or what would have happened in a hypothetical Ward-Calzaghe fight.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

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Opinion and nothing else.

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Hilarious, coming from you. In this thread.

Miles, you are taking this way too personally and exaggerating to an extreme to compensate.

Hopkins "turned out to be an easy win" for Calzaghe? Ward is not really very good? You don't need to jump to this kind of out-and-out hyperbole to make your point. It comes off as (and is, really) pure provocation and not even an attempt to persuade anyone to agree with you. Just like in the Manny/JMM threads.

Personally, I thought the old, Jermain Taylor-losing version of Hopkins still shaded a decision against Calzaghe. Plenty of others agree. But I'm not going to claim it was "decisive" or "easy" or pretend I can't conceive of how anyone could possibly see it any other way. Or call it a "robbery." If you score workrate above absolutely everything else, even if it's ineffective pitter-pat, you have to score the fight for Calzaghe (though still close on the cards -- not "easy").

Same with the Calzaghe-Ward point. Here, I'm generally inclined to agree that, at this point, Ward is just too young and unproven to pick in this mythical matchup. But 5 years from now? We'll see. Not out of the question. No need to completely denigrate the guy and basically say he's a completely average fighter except that he's good at clinching in order to conclude or argue that the bout favors Calzaghe at this point.

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

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Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

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Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

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dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter

[QUOTE=erics44;1038940]

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

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Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

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dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter[/QUOT]

Im English , so who is your favorite fighter ?

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by erics44

Hopkins didnt beat Calzaghe

He didnt win the fight

he didnt land enough punches, didnt throw enough to land them, didnt take a step forward

sometimes i can understand other sides to arguments in fights, that one there was no argument

if someone could show me any of the last 8 rounds where hopkins was on top for more than a single punch ill eat my words

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Is Calzaghe your favorite fighter ?

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ha

nah he isnt that great

least i like some fighters tho eh?

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Tommy Hearns is my all time favorite , so it was just a simple question , sorry if the question offended you.

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dont be sorry its a sign of weakness

and no offence taken, i thought you had turned a serious conversation into a bit of fun, so i joined in

im dissapointed in you tho, you are British right? you dont support Manchester United do you?

if you want a serious answer then I am English, Calzaghe is welsh so no he isnt my favourite fighter

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Glad you are being honest about your irrational pro-British bias. It's obvious from all of your posts (your previous one included) but good that you at least admit it.

Hey, good old fashioned debate on this topic. Bit difficult for me to decide who would win this fight but Calzaghe is a hrad man to beat on points, and I cant see Ward knocking him out,

On the other hand if Ward were to fight and beat say Bute and Hopkins/Dawkins in the next year or 2 he'd have a resume in less than 30 fights that may have surpassed Calzaghes much longer career.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.

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Opinion and nothing else.

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Hilarious, coming from you. In this thread.

Miles, you are taking this way too personally and exaggerating to an extreme to compensate.

Hopkins "turned out to be an easy win" for Calzaghe? Ward is not really very good? You don't need to jump to this kind of out-and-out hyperbole to make your point. It comes off as (and is, really) pure provocation and not even an attempt to persuade anyone to agree with you. Just like in the Manny/JMM threads.

Personally, I thought the old, Jermain Taylor-losing version of Hopkins still shaded a decision against Calzaghe. Plenty of others agree. But I'm not going to claim it was "decisive" or "easy" or pretend I can't conceive of how anyone could possibly see it any other way. Or call it a "robbery." If you score workrate above absolutely everything else, even if it's ineffective pitter-pat, you have to score the fight for Calzaghe (though still close on the cards -- not "easy").

Same with the Calzaghe-Ward point. Here, I'm generally inclined to agree that, at this point, Ward is just too young and unproven to pick in this mythical matchup. But 5 years from now? We'll see. Not out of the question. No need to completely denigrate the guy and basically say he's a completely average fighter except that he's good at clinching in order to conclude or argue that the bout favors Calzaghe at this point.

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All boxing debate is just opinion at the end of the day and I happen to believe Calzaghe is much better than Ward and that the only person to really prove a challenge would have been a prime Jones Jr. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it hyperbole. You just disagree.

I don't think Ward is terribly good, I think his style involves blatant cheating and his resume isn't all that hot either. All of those points can be backed up. I don't need hyperbole, the facts to support the opinions are there. Froch has a better resume than Andre Ward.

Ward and hopkins are from a similiar cloth.
They are savy fighters.. They are good, but not great.

The older, heavier, latter day Hopkins is good. The Hopkins that went more than a decade without losing a fight and defending the 160-pound title a bazillion times was great.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

The older, heavier, latter day Hopkins is good. The Hopkins that went more than a decade without losing a fight and defending the 160-pound title a bazillion times was great.

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hopkins defended his mw titles against too many part time construction workers until he caught a former ww in Tito.

Based on your theory, Chris John is great too.

Who did Hopkins beat at MW to prove his greatness?

His biggest wins were small men moving up. DLH who had really already lost to Sturm and Trinidad who spent most of his career at WW.

Then after Hopkins moves up you have loads more men being called up way beyond their optimum fighting weights.

Hopkins wins over Trinidad and Tarver were significant, but no more significant than Calzaghe beating Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins himself.

That's a little harsh...he defeated several top-10s, and destroyed Glen Johnson and Trinidad when they were undefeated. He also took 4 rounds off of a prime Roy Jones, and did MUCH better against him than Toney did in a fight that was more hyped and totally one-sided. He was on the P4P list for a number of years, and deservedly in the top 3 for a few of them.