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I gave him credit for fighting and beating Kessler a young unbeaten world champ and i would give it him again for beating Chad Dawson a young unbeaten Light heavyweight world champ. See Joe is the man but he isn't world champ so in theory he isn't a 2 weight world champ he is 2 weight Ring belt champion i regard the Ring belt high but it int a world title for the history books as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
Nor is Hopkins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos BitchI gave him credit for fighting and beating Kessler a young unbeaten world champ and i would give it him again for beating Chad Dawson a young unbeaten Light heavyweight world champ. See Joe is the man but he isn't world champ so in theory he isn't a 2 weight world champ he is 2 weight Ring belt champion i regard the Ring belt high but it int a world title for the history books as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
So they need to beat a WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF holder to be a legit two weight champ?
Silly Bernard and silly Joe. Fancy targeting and beating the no.1 recognised non alphabet holding lightheavy champion :rolleyes:
Just out of interest seeing as your a true statto as to who has the belts and the lineage, why wasn't the Hopkins Tarver fight a non title affair?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNor is Hopkins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos BitchI gave him credit for fighting and beating Kessler a young unbeaten world champ and i would give it him again for beating Chad Dawson a young unbeaten Light heavyweight world champ. See Joe is the man but he isn't world champ so in theory he isn't a 2 weight world champ he is 2 weight Ring belt champion i regard the Ring belt high but it int a world title for the history books as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
So they need to beat a WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF holder to be a legit two weight champ?
Silly Bernard and silly Joe. Fancy targeting and beating the no.1 recognised non alphabet holding lightheavy champion :rolleyes:
Did Tarver refuse to put his belt on the line against Hopkins or did he relinquish it to play Mason Dixon?
I don't think Tarver had an alphabet since the Johnson fight. They BOTH gave their belts back to fight eachother... instead of the no.1 contenders to their belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboJust out of interest seeing as your a true statto as to who has the belts and the lineage, why wasn't the Hopkins Tarver fight a non title affair?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNor is Hopkins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos Bitch
So they need to beat a WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF holder to be a legit two weight champ?
Silly Bernard and silly Joe. Fancy targeting and beating the no.1 recognised non alphabet holding lightheavy champion :rolleyes:
Did Tarver refuse to put his belt on the line against Hopkins or did he relinquish it to play Mason Dixon?
So a bit like Malignaggi Hatton then?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI don't think Tarver had an alphabet since the Johnson fight. They BOTH gave their belts back to fight eachother... instead of the no.1 contenders to their belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboJust out of interest seeing as your a true statto as to who has the belts and the lineage, why wasn't the Hopkins Tarver fight a non title affair?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Did Tarver refuse to put his belt on the line against Hopkins or did he relinquish it to play Mason Dixon?
Yeah exactly mate (you heard Steve Bunces explanation, right?). I was gonna bring that up yesterday. Barrera's an obvious example who went through a period of effing the belts off instead of paying sanction fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo a bit like Malignaggi Hatton then?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI don't think Tarver had an alphabet since the Johnson fight. They BOTH gave their belts back to fight eachother... instead of the no.1 contenders to their belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I try not to listen To Buncey :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYeah exactly mate (you heard Steve Bunces explanation, right?). I was gonna bring that up yesterday. Barrera's an obvious example who went through a period of effing the belts off instead of paying sanction fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo a bit like Malignaggi Hatton then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Well you should. The IBF wanted $300,000 from Powderpuff and Hatton to fight for their belt. So they rightly fucked them off. Now the IBF will get about $10,000 for their no.1 and no.2 rated fighters match - Urango and someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI try not to listen To Buncey :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYeah exactly mate (you heard Steve Bunces explanation, right?). I was gonna bring that up yesterday. Barrera's an obvious example who went through a period of effing the belts off instead of paying sanction fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Something like that anyway ;)
I never said Joe weren't number 1 just not a genuine world champ so in the history books he would only be world champ at Super middleweight in your own word FACT.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterNor is Hopkins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos BitchI gave him credit for fighting and beating Kessler a young unbeaten world champ and i would give it him again for beating Chad Dawson a young unbeaten Light heavyweight world champ. See Joe is the man but he isn't world champ so in theory he isn't a 2 weight world champ he is 2 weight Ring belt champion i regard the Ring belt high but it int a world title for the history books as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago
So they need to beat a WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF holder to be a legit two weight champ?
Silly Bernard and silly Joe. Fancy targeting and beating the no.1 recognised non alphabet holding lightheavy champion :rolleyes:
Genuine? Genuine what? Alpahbet champ? Behave ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragos BitchI never said Joe weren't number 1 just not a genuine world champ so in the history books he would only be world champ at Super middleweight in your own word FACT.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterNor is Hopkins then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos Bitch
So they need to beat a WBO, WBC, WBA or IBF holder to be a legit two weight champ?
Silly Bernard and silly Joe. Fancy targeting and beating the no.1 recognised non alphabet holding lightheavy champion :rolleyes:
What history books? The Ring champ is recognised, no?
If history doesn't recognise Calzaghe they wont Hopkins either. So even though EVERY boxing fan on earth recognises both as two weight champs, history books will say otherwise. That will be fun ;D
Look Fenster if anybody was looking back through world champs through WBC,WBA,WBO,IBF Calzaghe wouldn't be their Calzaghe is number 1 and the Ring champ i regard the belt highly but it int a genuine title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterGenuine? Genuine what? Alpahbet champ? Behave ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragos BitchI never said Joe weren't number 1 just not a genuine world champ so in the history books he would only be world champ at Super middleweight in your own word FACT.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
What history books? The Ring champ is recognised, no?
If history doesn't recognise Calzaghe they wont Hopkins either. So even though EVERY boxing fan on earth recognises both as two weight champs, history books will say otherwise. That will be fun ;D
It's an interesting point. I'm not nearly familiar enough with boxing history to know what has happened in the past in that regard.
Are there any boxers who became world champs in a weight class without a belt in past history?
I mean in modern times, post war for example?
I'm only aware of major fights in the past and can't think of any that weren't for a belt. I know Manny was superfeatherweight king for a long time with a belt but how will history regard that?
Although I agree the Ring belt is recognised I'm not really prepared to recognise Joe Calzaghe as the universally recognised light heavyweight champ right now. Beating B Hop in a non title fight at 173 and an old Roy Jones doesn't equate to conquering a division imo, and I'm his biggest fan.
In Manny's case it was different as he clearly beat all the best at superfeatherweight, i,e Barrera and Morales who both p4p at the time and so was deservedly the Ring champ when he faced Marquez. AND he DID face Marquez!
Calzaghe has only beat Hopkins who only had one single fight at 175 lbs so he hasn't conquered two weight classes yet.
Tarver is gonna invoke his rematch clause with Dawson apparently.
As far as anyone for Joe to fight at super middleweight there really is no one.
At light heavyweight there's BCD but he is going to fight Tarver again "mr rematch"
that only leaves Hopkins. Who Joe doesn't want again
I have no idea. And you wanna know how fucked up this really is.. i'm SURPRISED no-one picked up on it before - the real lineal champ at lightheavy is currently Zsolt Erdei!!!.. on a line through Gonzalez that leads to Dariusz Michalczewski (who chucked the belts, apart from the WBO) then to Virgil Hill from beating Maske who were ranked 1 and 2 by the Ring. BUT the Ring wasn't operating as it currently is and didn't award a belt.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterGenuine? Genuine what? Alpahbet champ? Behave ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragos Bitch
What history books? The Ring champ is recognised, no?
If history doesn't recognise Calzaghe they wont Hopkins either. So even though EVERY boxing fan on earth recognises both as two weight champs, history books will say otherwise. That will be fun ;D
It's an interesting point. I'm not nearly familiar enough with boxing history to know what has happened in the past in that regard.
Are there any boxers who became world champs in a weight class without a belt in past history?
I mean in modern times, post war for example?
I'm only aware of major fights in the past and can't think of any that weren't for a belt. I know Manny was superfeatherweight king for a long time with a belt but how will history regard that?
Although I agree the Ring belt is recognised I'm not really prepared to recognise Joe Calzaghe as the universally recognised light heavyweight champ right now. Beating B Hop in a non title fight at 173 and an old Roy Jones doesn't equate to conquering a division imo, and I'm his biggest fan.
In Manny's case it was different as he clearly beat all the best at superfeatherweight, i,e Barrera and Morales who both p4p at the time and so was deservedly the Ring champ when he faced Marquez. AND he DID face Marquez!
Calzaghe has only beat Hopkins who only had one single fight at 175 lbs so he hasn't conquered two weight classes yet.
Britkid!?!?
Stop with the genuine bit... Lets see, for history purposes..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos Bitch
Ring Champs History
Light Heavyweight
Number Champion Reign
1 Maxie Rosenbloom June 25, 1930 - November 16, 1934
2 Bob Olin November 16, 1934 - October 31, 1935
3 John Henry Lewis October 31, 1935 - June 1939 (Retired)
4 Billy Conn (beat Melio Bettina) July 13, 1939 - May 1941 (moved up to Heavyweight)
5 Gus Lesnevich (beat Tami Mauriello) August 26, 1941 - July 26, 1948
6 Freddie Mills July 26, 1948 - January 24, 1950
7 Joey Maxim January 24, 1950 - December 17, 1952
8 Archie Moore December 17, 1952 - May 12, 1962 (moved up to Heavyweight)
9 Harold Johnson (beat Doug Jones) May 12, 1962 - June 1, 1963
10 Willie Pastrano June 1, 1963 - March 30, 1965
11 Jose Torres March 30, 1965 - December 16, 1966
12 Dick Tiger December 16, 1966 - May 24, 1968
13 Bob Foster May 24, 1968 - September 16, 1974 (retired)
14 V�*ctor Gal�*ndez 1979 - November 30, 1979 (lost to Marvin Johnson)
15 Matthew Saad Muhammad (awarded title by Ring) November 30, 1979 - December 19, 1981
16 Dwight Muhammad Qawi December 19, 1981 - March 18, 1983
17 Michael Spinks March 18, 1983 - September 21, 1985 (won heavyweight championship)
18 Roy Jones Jr. 2001 - May 15, 2004
19 Antonio Tarver May 15, 2004 - December 18, 2004
20 Glen Johnson December 18, 2004 - June 18, 2005
21 Antonio Tarver June 18, 2005 - June 10, 2006
22 Bernard Hopkins June 10, 2006 - April 19, 2008
23 Joe Calzaghe April 19, 2008 - Present
WBO Champs History
Michael Moorer December 3rd, 1988
Title Vacated 1991
Leeonzer Barber May 9, 1991
Dariusz Michalczewski September 10, 1994
Julio César González October 10, 2003
Zsolt Erdei January 17, 2004 - current
Who will NOT recognise Hopkins and Calzaghe as genuine champs?