Clottey v. Pacquiao

I was rewatching Cotto-Pacquiao for the first time since fight night last night on TV & I realized that Cotto really didn't respect Pacquiao's power till the 4th round. Even then he tried to war it again in the 7th I think, at which point he got buzzed again. He then tried to stick & move his way to finishing the fight & his best round was probably the 10th where he boxed his way to the round solidly, by at no point trying to trade with him. But, by then he was in no condition to deal with him.

I always thought Pacquiao would destroy him, both because I think he's a superior fighter & because I thought Cotto took too much punishment in his fights particularly Margarito. But looking at it last night, I just wonder if Cotto had boxed more early, whether he might have been able to frustrate Pacquiao into making mistakes. I'm not sure he's disciplined enough to, as he only seems to box when he really has to, but it just made me wonder.

Clottey might well be able to frustrate him, but ultimately I think he'd take his foot off the gas enough that Pacquiao takes a decision.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

Call me a sadist, but I wouldn't mind seeing this match. I think Pac wouldn't be able to take him out and he'd have to work all 12 rounds as Josh would always be following him around. Maybe Pac might even get rocked a time or two. Clottey seems problematic for everyone he faces, but I doubt he'd have enough to win. Did I just talk myself out of my own match-up?

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The biggest problem in my opp is Clottey is just not active enough and too slow...

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Originally Posted by Master

Roach would probably force Clottey to fight at 145lb and pac would beat him in a hollow victory. ;)

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He might but hopefully he won't so we can see a legit result with no excuses.

When the odds makers pick pac against clottey if this fight happens then you know that I'm right. Coz i think pac would be the favorite here. Would they bet money to lose? They analyze too. scrutinizing both fighters. to bet their millions. or hundreds or thousands. But this is hypothehtical. yet most likely. Not basing on pac's popularity and how he finished his previous fights though. It's in their styles and what they bring to the table.

Clottey's effective jabbing won't frustrate manny. unless he boxes with that jab like how cotto did on rnd 10 to survive. Any fighter who fights in a back foot against manny may succeed but sooner or later pac would catch up with them because of his aggressiveness workrate nd great stamina. unless he counters well like jmm. But is josh as good as jmm meaning exactly on the same level of counter punching effectiveness as jmm? Yes or no? If the answer is no then pac would beat him.

Also punch resistance. Who can take the punches more. pac or clottey? Pac proved he can take the punch of a strong puncher in cotto. Pac would not trade with clottey but rather he will go around clottey in flurries too.

Styles makes fights. Then please describe clottey's style for me? A bigger guy who is effective in jabs.(like hoya) clear power. good counter puncher. But who will get in first? Pac starts frantically. he is a fire starter. His speed will tell the difference in this fight. The real question here is: " does clottey have to outbox money to win?" Slug it out with money? I don't think so. Manny is hit and get back outside. hit and get back outside. Counters to the body won't do because he no longer have that weakness just like ages ago and his work rate and speed will still spell the difference. Remember their is power with those fast hands!
Manny is not the same as a lot of the little guys: he has power and movement speed to frustrate as well. The bigger guy will be slower. except i guess pbf (the only guy in the higher weights)who can match pac's speed. If you can't catch pac well with a well timed counter (jmm) or a power shot (cotto) counter. then pac might catch you with at least one power shot from his flurries to cut you piece by piece. eventually. Now on this highlight. expound if clottey ever has a chance. Believe me pac would get away from clottey's flurry in the exchange then start up again. Clottey is that slow even on reaction time and post reaction time after an exchange. If he's slower. no matter how powerful he is. he will be defeated. And i stand by my prediction here that pac would be the first guy to dominate and toy with him. Here i'll bookmark this thread for future bets. Anyone who'll step up with the challenge is welcome.

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

When the odds makers pick pac against clottey if this fight happens then you know that I'm right. Coz i think pac would be the favorite here. Would they bet money to lose? They analyze too. scrutinizing both fighters. to bet their millions. or hundreds or thousands. But this is hypothehtical. yet most likely. Not basing on pac's popularity and how he finished his previous fights though. It's in their styles and what they bring to the table.

Clottey's effective jabbing won't frustrate manny. unless he boxes with that jab like how cotto did on rnd 10 to survive. Any fighter who fights in a back foot against manny may succeed but sooner or later pac would catch up with them because of his aggressiveness workrate nd great stamina. unless he counters well like jmm. But is josh as good as jmm meaning exactly on the same level of counter punching effectiveness as jmm? Yes or no? If the answer is no then pac would beat him.

Also punch resistance. Who can take the punches more. pac or clottey? Pac proved he can take the punch of a strong puncher in cotto. Pac would not trade with clottey but rather he will go around clottey in flurries too.

Styles makes fights. Then please describe clottey's style for me? A bigger guy who is effective in jabs.(like hoya) clear power. good counter puncher. But who will get in first? Pac starts frantically. he is a fire starter. His speed will tell the difference in this fight. The real question here is: " does clottey have to outbox money to win?" Slug it out with money? I don't think so. Manny is hit and get back outside. hit and get back outside. Counters to the body won't do because he no longer have that weakness just like ages ago and his work rate and speed will still spell the difference. Remember their is power with those fast hands!
Manny is not the same as a lot of the little guys: he has power and movement speed to frustrate as well. The bigger guy will be slower. except i guess pbf (the only guy in the higher weights)who can match pac's speed. If you can't catch pac well with a well timed counter (jmm) or a power shot (cotto) counter. then pac might catch you with at least one power shot from his flurries to cut you piece by piece. eventually. Now on this highlight. expound if clottey ever has a chance. Believe me pac would get away from clottey's flurry in the exchange then start up again. Clottey is that slow even on reaction time and post reaction time after an exchange. If he's slower. no matter how powerful he is. he will be defeated. And i stand by my prediction here that pac would be the first guy to dominate and toy with him. Here i'll bookmark this thread for future bets. Anyone who'll step up with the challenge is welcome.

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so basically.... pac is invincible is what your saying..... i see

i like how you use dlh as the comparison regardless of the fact he was like a zombie that night and pac still couldnt hurt him

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

i think clottey can definitely beat pacquiao but this fight will never happen because roach would never risk his cashcow pacquiao against a very dangerous fighter. besides, clottey wouldn't bring in the big bucks that pacquiao now demands. i also think clottey would walk through pacquiao's punches unlike cotto who's punch resistance isn't as good as clottey's. i also think clottey's superior jab would give pacquiao all kinds of problems and would have him dazed and confused. morales and marquez showed the way to beat pacquiao and that is by using a very good strong jab to keep pacquiao off balance. i think clottey wins this one in a war by late TKO.

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Riiiiight. if Clottey cant knockout Cotto how is he going to knockout Pacquiao? We all know Pacquiao's chin is way better and his movement is much better? This is just ignorance!

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mosley couldnt ko cotto... but he could against margarito... we know margaritos chin is better.... your logic is very flawed

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Margarito is a brawler, and Cotto is more of a boxer. This allowed Mosley to tee off on Margarito and Margarito wouldnt cover up. Cotto of course played defense....... sorry bud you logic is obviously the one flawed!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Riiiiight. if Clottey cant knockout Cotto how is he going to knockout Pacquiao? We all know Pacquiao's chin is way better and his movement is much better? This is just ignorance!

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mosley couldnt ko cotto... but he could against margarito... we know margaritos chin is better.... your logic is very flawed

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Margarito is a brawler, and Cotto is more of a boxer. This allowed Mosley to tee off on Margarito and Margarito wouldnt cover up. Cotto of course played defense....... sorry bud you logic is obviously the one flawed!:rolleyes:

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did you even watch the fight ? cotto him with a lot of very big shots that margarito walked through, and in my opinion this lead to him being taken out by mosley in a small way

regardless of the fact pac could take cottos shots they will have done damage... every fight you take shots like that lead you one step towards being ko'd if you continue to do it

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

When the odds makers pick pac against clottey if this fight happens then you know that I'm right. Coz i think pac would be the favorite here. Would they bet money to lose? They analyze too. scrutinizing both fighters. to bet their millions. or hundreds or thousands. But this is hypothehtical. yet most likely. Not basing on pac's popularity and how he finished his previous fights though. It's in their styles and what they bring to the table.

Clottey's effective jabbing won't frustrate manny. unless he boxes with that jab like how cotto did on rnd 10 to survive. Any fighter who fights in a back foot against manny may succeed but sooner or later pac would catch up with them because of his aggressiveness workrate nd great stamina. unless he counters well like jmm. But is josh as good as jmm meaning exactly on the same level of counter punching effectiveness as jmm? Yes or no? If the answer is no then pac would beat him.

Also punch resistance. Who can take the punches more. pac or clottey? Pac proved he can take the punch of a strong puncher in cotto. Pac would not trade with clottey but rather he will go around clottey in flurries too.

Styles makes fights. Then please describe clottey's style for me? A bigger guy who is effective in jabs.(like hoya) clear power. good counter puncher. But who will get in first? Pac starts frantically. he is a fire starter. His speed will tell the difference in this fight. The real question here is: " does clottey have to outbox money to win?" Slug it out with money? I don't think so. Manny is hit and get back outside. hit and get back outside. Counters to the body won't do because he no longer have that weakness just like ages ago and his work rate and speed will still spell the difference. Remember their is power with those fast hands!
Manny is not the same as a lot of the little guys: he has power and movement speed to frustrate as well. The bigger guy will be slower. except i guess pbf (the only guy in the higher weights)who can match pac's speed. If you can't catch pac well with a well timed counter (jmm) or a power shot (cotto) counter. then pac might catch you with at least one power shot from his flurries to cut you piece by piece. eventually. Now on this highlight. expound if clottey ever has a chance. Believe me pac would get away from clottey's flurry in the exchange then start up again. Clottey is that slow even on reaction time and post reaction time after an exchange. If he's slower. no matter how powerful he is. he will be defeated. And i stand by my prediction here that pac would be the first guy to dominate and toy with him. Here i'll bookmark this thread for future bets. Anyone who'll step up with the challenge is welcome.

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so basically.... pac is invincible is what your saying..... i see

i like how you use dlh as the comparison regardless of the fact he was like a zombie that night and pac still couldnt hurt him

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:confused: :o
Why did they stop the fight then? So you believe all the shit that hoya said that he's not hurt from pac's punches? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

When the odds makers pick pac against clottey if this fight happens then you know that I'm right. Coz i think pac would be the favorite here. Would they bet money to lose? They analyze too. scrutinizing both fighters. to bet their millions. or hundreds or thousands. But this is hypothehtical. yet most likely. Not basing on pac's popularity and how he finished his previous fights though. It's in their styles and what they bring to the table.

Clottey's effective jabbing won't frustrate manny. unless he boxes with that jab like how cotto did on rnd 10 to survive. Any fighter who fights in a back foot against manny may succeed but sooner or later pac would catch up with them because of his aggressiveness workrate nd great stamina. unless he counters well like jmm. But is josh as good as jmm meaning exactly on the same level of counter punching effectiveness as jmm? Yes or no? If the answer is no then pac would beat him.

Also punch resistance. Who can take the punches more. pac or clottey? Pac proved he can take the punch of a strong puncher in cotto. Pac would not trade with clottey but rather he will go around clottey in flurries too.

Styles makes fights. Then please describe clottey's style for me? A bigger guy who is effective in jabs.(like hoya) clear power. good counter puncher. But who will get in first? Pac starts frantically. he is a fire starter. His speed will tell the difference in this fight. The real question here is: " does clottey have to outbox money to win?" Slug it out with money? I don't think so. Manny is hit and get back outside. hit and get back outside. Counters to the body won't do because he no longer have that weakness just like ages ago and his work rate and speed will still spell the difference. Remember their is power with those fast hands!
Manny is not the same as a lot of the little guys: he has power and movement speed to frustrate as well. The bigger guy will be slower. except i guess pbf (the only guy in the higher weights)who can match pac's speed. If you can't catch pac well with a well timed counter (jmm) or a power shot (cotto) counter. then pac might catch you with at least one power shot from his flurries to cut you piece by piece. eventually. Now on this highlight. expound if clottey ever has a chance. Believe me pac would get away from clottey's flurry in the exchange then start up again. Clottey is that slow even on reaction time and post reaction time after an exchange. If he's slower. no matter how powerful he is. he will be defeated. And i stand by my prediction here that pac would be the first guy to dominate and toy with him. Here i'll bookmark this thread for future bets. Anyone who'll step up with the challenge is welcome.

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so basically.... pac is invincible is what your saying..... i see

i like how you use dlh as the comparison regardless of the fact he was like a zombie that night and pac still couldnt hurt him

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:confused: :o
Why did they stop the fight then? So you believe all the shit that hoya said that he's not hurt from pac's punches? :rolleyes:

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no i can just tell what i can see with my own eyes, do his legs wobble at any point ? no!

the fight was stopped because it was pointless to fight on, DLH couldnt do anything to stop pac from landing on him, not every fight is stopped because a fighter is going to get knocked out otherwise, DLH has one of the best chins in the game... we shouldnt be suprised that pac couldnt hurt him

this is hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg

now try find me a moment were DLH is wobbling around like pac was here ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viuaf8aLWoU

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

so basically.... pac is invincible is what your saying..... i see

i like how you use dlh as the comparison regardless of the fact he was like a zombie that night and pac still couldnt hurt him

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:confused: :o
Why did they stop the fight then? So you believe all the shit that hoya said that he's not hurt from pac's punches? :rolleyes:

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no i can just tell what i can see with my own eyes, do his legs wobble at any point ? no!

the fight was stopped because it was pointless to fight on, DLH couldnt do anything to stop pac from landing on him, not every fight is stopped because a fighter is going to get knocked out otherwise, DLH has one of the best chins in the game... we shouldnt be suprised that pac couldnt hurt him

this is hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg

now try find me a moment were DLH is wobbling around like pac was here ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viuaf8aLWoU

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Hoya's feet did wobbled at 35, 1:25, 1:45
He did'nt put hoya down, but he got T.KO 'ed anyway. The point of the debate is, any heavier fighter within pac's weight division range which has a straight forward style would always lose to pac, and thanks to your video it just solidifies my point. Doe'snt matter if he'll get hurt or "not". A win is a win. And he may not look physically hurt but emotionally? In the face of the boxing world being humiliated by a midget? :cool:He can deny everything but the truth hurts. Console if you want to, he needs it.;)
The point is if a fighter is not a slick guy, counter punching masterclass like jmm etc. he would lose to pac and so is clottey.

And why hit me for comparing a shot hoya to a prime clottey when you show up an old video of pac ages ago which is irrelevant obviously bec. Pac is a different fighter than he was years ago?:confused:

We must learn from the mistakes of the past as well, and pac has learned from it. Fall down 7 times, rise up again 8 times. A japanese saying.

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

:confused: :o
Why did they stop the fight then? So you believe all the shit that hoya said that he's not hurt from pac's punches? :rolleyes:

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no i can just tell what i can see with my own eyes, do his legs wobble at any point ? no!

the fight was stopped because it was pointless to fight on, DLH couldnt do anything to stop pac from landing on him, not every fight is stopped because a fighter is going to get knocked out otherwise, DLH has one of the best chins in the game... we shouldnt be suprised that pac couldnt hurt him

this is hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg

now try find me a moment were DLH is wobbling around like pac was here ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viuaf8aLWoU

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Hoya's feet did wobbled at 35, 1:25, 1:45
He did'nt put hoya down, but he got T.KO 'ed anyway. The point of the debate is, any heavier fighter within pac's weight division range which has a straight forward style would always lose to pac, and thanks to your video it just solidifies my point. Doe'snt matter if he'll get hurt or "not". A win is a win. And he may not look physically hurt but emotionally? In the face of the boxing world being humiliated by a midget? :cool:He can deny everything but the truth hurts. Console if you want to, he needs it.;)
The point is if a fighter is not a slick guy, counter punching masterclass like jmm etc. he would lose to pac and so is clottey.

And why hit me for comparing a shot hoya to a prime clottey when you show up an old video of pac ages ago which is irrelevant obviously bec. Pac is a different fighter than he was years ago?:confused:

We must learn from the mistakes of the past as well, and pac has learned from it. Fall down 7 times, rise up again 8 times. A japanese saying.

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hahahaha WTF, so your saying pac hurt DLH's feelings and that counts as a logical arguement .....

no my point was to show what 'hurt' looks like, i just so happened to use pac so it would be someone you recognised.... its quite obvious to tell your just a fan boy of one fighter so i thought it would make it easier to understand

and no his feet didnt wobble any of those times... you need to take them glasses your wearing off because they are blinding you to the truth

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

no i can just tell what i can see with my own eyes, do his legs wobble at any point ? no!

the fight was stopped because it was pointless to fight on, DLH couldnt do anything to stop pac from landing on him, not every fight is stopped because a fighter is going to get knocked out otherwise, DLH has one of the best chins in the game... we shouldnt be suprised that pac couldnt hurt him

this is hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVr3qvvsAg

now try find me a moment were DLH is wobbling around like pac was here ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viuaf8aLWoU

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Hoya's feet did wobbled at 35, 1:25, 1:45
He did'nt put hoya down, but he got T.KO 'ed anyway. The point of the debate is, any heavier fighter within pac's weight division range which has a straight forward style would always lose to pac, and thanks to your video it just solidifies my point. Doe'snt matter if he'll get hurt or "not". A win is a win. And he may not look physically hurt but emotionally? In the face of the boxing world being humiliated by a midget? :cool:He can deny everything but the truth hurts. Console if you want to, he needs it.;)
The point is if a fighter is not a slick guy, counter punching masterclass like jmm etc. he would lose to pac and so is clottey.

And why hit me for comparing a shot hoya to a prime clottey when you show up an old video of pac ages ago which is irrelevant obviously bec. Pac is a different fighter than he was years ago?:confused:

We must learn from the mistakes of the past as well, and pac has learned from it. Fall down 7 times, rise up again 8 times. A japanese saying.

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hahahaha WTF, so your saying pac hurt DLH's feelings and that counts as a logical arguement .....

no my point was to show what 'hurt' looks like, i just so happened to use pac so it would be someone you recognised.... its quite obvious to tell your just a fan boy of one fighter so i thought it would make it easier to understand

and no his feet didnt wobble any of those times... you need to take them glasses your wearing off because they are blinding you to the truth

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Rather be a pac fan boy than a hoya fan boy which obviously you are.
Use pac as some one i only recognised. Lol you're one funny guy. Just because i dont post to threads regarding other fighter doe'snt necesarilly mean i don't know them. And even if i did'nt is it impossible for me not to know them? Especially legendary fighters that i did not reached during their heydays? What is the internet for?
Pacnut huggery yeah right. But as a matter of fact it is pac threads that gets a lot of views than other fighters.

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

Hoya's feet did wobbled at 35, 1:25, 1:45
He did'nt put hoya down, but he got T.KO 'ed anyway. The point of the debate is, any heavier fighter within pac's weight division range which has a straight forward style would always lose to pac, and thanks to your video it just solidifies my point. Doe'snt matter if he'll get hurt or "not". A win is a win. And he may not look physically hurt but emotionally? In the face of the boxing world being humiliated by a midget? :cool:He can deny everything but the truth hurts. Console if you want to, he needs it.;)
The point is if a fighter is not a slick guy, counter punching masterclass like jmm etc. he would lose to pac and so is clottey.

And why hit me for comparing a shot hoya to a prime clottey when you show up an old video of pac ages ago which is irrelevant obviously bec. Pac is a different fighter than he was years ago?:confused:

We must learn from the mistakes of the past as well, and pac has learned from it. Fall down 7 times, rise up again 8 times. A japanese saying.

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hahahaha WTF, so your saying pac hurt DLH's feelings and that counts as a logical arguement .....

no my point was to show what 'hurt' looks like, i just so happened to use pac so it would be someone you recognised.... its quite obvious to tell your just a fan boy of one fighter so i thought it would make it easier to understand

and no his feet didnt wobble any of those times... you need to take them glasses your wearing off because they are blinding you to the truth

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Rather be a pac fan boy than a hoya fan boy which obviously you are.
Use pac as some one i only recognised. Lol you're one funny guy. Just because i dont post to threads regarding other fighter doe'snt necesarilly mean i don't know them. And even if i did'nt is it impossible for me not to know them? Especially legendary fighters that i did not reached during their heydays? What is the internet for?
Pacnut huggery yeah right. But as a matter of fact it is pac threads that gets a lot of views than other fighters.

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far from it, i have trinidad beating DLH, i also think he lost to sturm and the mayweather fight was not as close as the judges made out

i just dont have an agenda to defend a fighter no matter what, fact of the matter is pac didnt hurt DLH in that fight which was my original point

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

hahahaha WTF, so your saying pac hurt DLH's feelings and that counts as a logical arguement .....

no my point was to show what 'hurt' looks like, i just so happened to use pac so it would be someone you recognised.... its quite obvious to tell your just a fan boy of one fighter so i thought it would make it easier to understand

and no his feet didnt wobble any of those times... you need to take them glasses your wearing off because they are blinding you to the truth

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Rather be a pac fan boy than a hoya fan boy which obviously you are.
Use pac as some one i only recognised. Lol you're one funny guy. Just because i dont post to threads regarding other fighter doe'snt necesarilly mean i don't know them. And even if i did'nt is it impossible for me not to know them? Especially legendary fighters that i did not reached during their heydays? What is the internet for?
Pacnut huggery yeah right. But as a matter of fact it is pac threads that gets a lot of views than other fighters.

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far from it, i have trinidad beating DLH, i also think he lost to sturm and the mayweather fight was not as close as the judges made out

i just dont have an agenda to defend a fighter no matter what, fact of the matter is pac didnt hurt DLH in that fight which was my original point

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Anyways if pac faces clottey, if that fight will be made: i challenge you to an avatar bet. No childish shit, whinning pussies, or chickening out. Will you take my challenge?
Of course, i will pick pac to toy clottey for the very first time.

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by hitmanhatton

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

Rather be a pac fan boy than a hoya fan boy which obviously you are.
Use pac as some one i only recognised. Lol you're one funny guy. Just because i dont post to threads regarding other fighter doe'snt necesarilly mean i don't know them. And even if i did'nt is it impossible for me not to know them? Especially legendary fighters that i did not reached during their heydays? What is the internet for?
Pacnut huggery yeah right. But as a matter of fact it is pac threads that gets a lot of views than other fighters.

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far from it, i have trinidad beating DLH, i also think he lost to sturm and the mayweather fight was not as close as the judges made out

i just dont have an agenda to defend a fighter no matter what, fact of the matter is pac didnt hurt DLH in that fight which was my original point

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Anyways if pac faces clottey, if that fight will be made: i challenge you to an avatar bet. No childish shit, whinning pussies, or chickening out. Will you take my challenge?
Of course, i will pick pac to toy clottey for the very first time.

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of course i would but he wont, roach and pac will go nowere near clottey