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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!
Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win
It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe
hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him
Yep the same Glen Johnson that Sheika had just beat before Calzaghe smashed him all over the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThe Glen Johnson, Calzaghe was deadly afraid to face.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYet beaten Glen Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfCalzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, SheikaQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda
There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.
The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.
Sheika had lost to Tony Booth for fucks sake.
Althguz thinks all British fighters are shit, pussy, overrated etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
IMO hopkins has turned out to be calzaghes best win
It was a clear victory over a man who has fought at the top level for years and has had some of his best wins right at the very top since losing to Calzaghe
hopkins has lost before but never as convincingly as Calzaghe beat him
Oh sorry, apart from his mate Larry Olubamiwo, he was a guy to look out for (:LOLATYOU:)
I think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
It's not as though Ward has never been hurt before or been clinging to survive. He is extremely vulnerable, but the likes of Froch and Green are not going to be able to do anything because they are a rung or even 2 below the level that Calzaghe brought to the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusI think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
It's easy to state that Ward is a technician, but since when has that ever bothered Calzaghe who has shown he can outwork crafty fighters. Ward has never fought anyone like Joe Calzaghe. It would be a real eye opener for him and I can see him being shell shocked after a couple of rounds. He was looking panicky against Froch towards the end. Since when has Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather ever look panicky. It would be like Floyd getting tired after ten against Baldomir and start clinging on for dear life. It just doesn't happen. Ward is simply not on that level and chin and stamina are his weaknesses.
Calzaghe has most of his opponents doing the Iggy Pop thousand yard stare by the half way mark. Ward would be no different. He is savvy with the clinching etc, but overall does nothing particularly outstanding. I don't see how he can trouble Calzaghe. Calzaghe would rip him with 4 punches before Octopus man gets his grip around him. Rinse and repeat.
which fights was he decked hurt against which lesser opposition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusI think he looked average in a few successive fights against seemingly lesser opp, getting rocked and decked and just not performing that greatly. I think that's a factor when up against a real technician like Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
he was first decked and the first time he looked in the slightest bit hurt was against byron mitchell and he blasted him away the next round
then that salaman whatever his name was decked him but im sure he won every round in that fight appart from that one
bika bloodied his face but all with the head and joe was never hurt in the fight, again joe won every round bar 1 or 2, did a much better job than ward did on bika
then hopkins puts him down, flash knock down, and joe won that fight comfortably
then jones put him down (which was the only other time he actually looked hurt as well as against Mitchell) and that was the only round he lost
At this point in his career Ward wouldnt beat Joe Calzaghe and he would have to improve greatly to have any chance
I would also like to see Ward being warned and docked for his holding. I despise holding and clinching and it is nothing more than a spoiling tactic. If it's good enough for Khan then it is good enough for Ward and it would also mean a fair fight for the opponent and a better fight for the fans.
I apply the same logic to many fighters. Hopkins is the other obvious one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was
every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in
I watched it again this evening just to recap and I was appalled.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
mate, it amazes me that the ward kessler fight went without any points taken off and how, since, when everyone refers back to it talks about what a good performance it was
every single cut on Kesslers face was made by the head, everytime ward missed with a punch his head went straight in
Granted it was Ward on the major stage for the first time, but he has got away with it ever since. It was a shameful performance and I really believe Kessler deserves a rematch and that he would do much better.
Kessler had no expectation of any of that nastiness. He paid the penalty.
And then Ward launches into his 'Good lord' spiel afterwards and his wife of course was interviewed during the fight and declared that Ward was fighting for his Lord or something like that. Completely brainwashed weirdos.
And like many Christians they fight dirty and then pray to the lord for forgiveness afterwards. You cheated, you were horrible. 'Oh but the good lord forgives those that buy into the babble'.
Cue projectile vomiting.
I think Hopkins had to dig deep against Calzaghe, mentally. It look at one point like he'd begun to loose interest but managed to fight very competitively in the championship rounds basically levelling things out.
Mayweather during something like rounds 2 to 4 was looking pretty heated by Ricky's constant proximity before he adjusted.
Ward was underpressure more in the last 12 rounds than any other round so of course mentally, given frochs reputation, it's gonna disturb you a bit. I assumed Ward would of had him all figured out but I guess your prone to wilt a little when you've been doin everything right for 85% of the fight and you suddenly realise it just stopped working.
Calzaghe definately has a superior mentality in that respect because indeed he can rise from a knockdown, hurt and still say 'I'm better than you' and just go out swinging. To want to out 'Roy Jones' Roy Jones himself and to just be audacious in the ring. He looked lost against Hopkins untill he started to outwork and harass him. But that's Hopkins. A man who since 2004 had been on Eco mode... Just doesn't reflect what Andre Ward is capable of doing in the ring.
Kessler would get beaten more decisively in a second fight with Ward than he did in the first.
I didn't say anything about "the reason" Calzaghe didn't fight them; but the fact is, he didn't. Again, just pick up a Ring Magazine during the Calzaghe era. You'll see lots of names in the top-5 that Calzaghe never fought. Sorry, I missed the earlier debates, but why are supposed to ignore Echols and Mundine? They were #s 3 and 4 in the 2003 and 2004 annual rankings, when Calzaghe was defending against people like Kabary Salem and Mger Mkrtchyan. But those are hardly the only names. Look at Calzaghe's record, and look at the names of the people in the top 5 during his time as a top 168-pound champion and contender.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HQuote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Actually mate, your comment is 'The Myth' - this is a point that has been debated over and over on here. You tell me who Calzaghe should've fought at 168, that was operating at 168 at that time, and that the reason they didn't fight was JC!!
Andplease don't say Liles, Echols, Mundine and all that old blurb.
Ward is 27, and he's beaten three of the top 5 in the weight class, and four of the top 10.
Opinion and nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
As is all of your speculation about what would happen in a second Ward-Kessler fight, or what would have happened in a hypothetical Ward-Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfOpinion and nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX