Castro resigns!!!!

Wooooooo....Raul Castro will be taking over and I doubt he lasts long....come on democratic Cuba!!!!!



GET YOUR CIGARS READY!!!!

Oh come now 45 years later,he retired at 81,what a triumph
We've only tried to assasinate him since the day he took power
And I wouldnt exactly hold your breath for a democratic Cuba anyway considering who Castro replaced.
Though Im sure the mob is holding its breath holding for another Batista Cuba.
And while Im not a big fan of how Castro ran his show,he still wins for all time best political practical joke
Reagan kept pounding the rhetoric drum about "political prisoners" and how they should be released
Castro emptyied his prisons,and shipped them all to Miami
And you wonder why tourists get shot there all the time

Pro Cubans.....CRAP!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh come now 45 years later,he retired at 81,what a triumph

---

...well just call me crazy but a democratic Cuba would flourish, mainly because the embargo would be lifted and that would be bound to help them out.

Do you think Cuba is some sort of great place right now? No it's a shithole...the people trying to float to Miami on homemade rafts won't disagree.

Sure the Bay of Pigs was a catastrophe (thanks JFK) and they gave us quite a scare with the missle crisis but an embargo that has lasted since 1962....I think we hurt them more than they hurt us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

...well just call me crazy but a democratic Cuba would flourish, mainly because the embargo would be lifted and that would be bound to help them out.

Do you think Cuba is some sort of great place right now? No it's a shithole...the people trying to float to Miami on homemade rafts won't disagree.

Sure the Bay of Pigs was a catastrophe (thanks JFK) and they gave us quite a scare with the missle crisis but an embargo that has lasted since 1962....I think we hurt them more than they hurt us.

---

Go look up Batista
Like I said,not a huge Castro fan,but what he replaced was the mob,and theyve been salivaiting for this day for 40+ years
It wont get any better for the people,just guys in expensive suits who smoke cigars,which frankly even a good one smells like a gym lockeroom

Oh God, as soon as I saw the title I KNEW Lyle would have posted and that Trainer Monkey would be the first to respond.

Here begins another 25 page thread consisting soley of Lyle and Trainer Monkey back and forth encounter's

You two should have your own forum :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Oh God, as soon as I saw the title I KNEW Lyle would have posted and that Trainer Monkey would be the first to respond.

Here begins another 25 page thread consisting soley of Lyle and Trainer Monkey back and forth encounter's

You two should have your own forum :p

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You looked;D

Castro did what he could with what he had. Same as any world leader would do really. Democracy....what a charade. It doesnt exist.

Can't say Cuban history's really my thing but as far as I know Raul was a socialist/communist before Fidel ever was. He and Che Guevara were. Don't know how much that matters to the whole "democratic Cuba" thing.

We'll see about a democratic Cuba, I suspect it would be more likely to be still communist in name but move towards more of the Chinese economic model.

Can't say I give a shit what happens to him, I'm on the left, unlike most Americans I don't have any problem calling myself a liberal, but I don't have any sympathy for people like Castro or Batista.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Go look up Batista
Like I said,not a huge Castro fan,but what he replaced was the mob,and theyve been salivaiting for this day for 40+ years
It wont get any better for the people,just guys in expensive suits who smoke cigars,which frankly even a good one smells like a gym lockeroom

---

Bautista was good for America....and we got to export our crime. It was win-win baby :thumb:


Socialism simply doesn't work it punishes the people who want to go out and achieve and therefore it's just a pointless idiotic system of economics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Go look up Batista
Like I said,not a huge Castro fan,but what he replaced was the mob,and theyve been salivaiting for this day for 40+ years
It wont get any better for the people,just guys in expensive suits who smoke cigars,which frankly even a good one smells like a gym lockeroom

---

Yes. Cuba will turn into the new Haiti, a big offshore sweatshop for Cuban-American businesses. There'll be superficial signs of progress but twenty years after capitalism gets busy again the majority of Cubans will still be worse off than they are now.

Cuba would have been in pretty good shape had it not been under US embargo for the past few decades.

Cuba will be far better off than Haiti.

I tell you what the big thing Cuba could do for us (when they become a democracy of course) ethanol from corn is all well and good but SUGAR is where it's at! Brazil has supposedly had some good success with ethanol derived from sugar and Cuba could export to the US and we could help them out with what our embargo has done to them over 4 decades.


And American tourism in general will bring them MILLIONS...they do have to clean up a bit though some American businesses can create some monster hotels down there and casinos.

Havana would become a mix of Miami and Las Vegas....and think of all the great boxers that will be able to fight in the pros when they stop being a stupid socialist state!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Bautista was good for America....and we got to export our crime. It was win-win baby :thumb:


Socialism simply doesn't work it punishes the people who want to go out and achieve and therefore it's just a pointless idiotic system of economics.

---

Which is why despite a 40+ year embargo by its closest and largest former traiding partner,20 years without any money from the Soviet Union,they have a better health care system then we do

HAHAHAHAHA....you believe that??? Go live there then!

Our healthcare system is messed up but it's better than Cuba's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

HAHAHAHAHA....you believe that??? Go live there then!

Our healthcare system is messed up but it's better than Cuba's

---

Go look it up on your own
Our healthcare system is a train wreck,its not bad,its abysmal
Its one of the worse in the industrialized world
So no,its not better then Cuba's,we could only hope to achieve Cuba's
And the "go live there" line is the last line of defense of a coward who cant face the truth
Its alot easier to spew that crud then to try and fix here

Very few things need to be done to fix the system here the problem is no one is making the changes.

If you want socialized healthcare then go right ahead and vote for Obama or Hillary....you have your opportunity right now.



And why does every motherfucking post have to be someone berating ME about healthcare....you guys do realize that lots of people not paying their bills at the emergency room or hospital adds to the cost of both health insurance AND the cost of the stay at the ER or hospital??? It's not just rich people fucking the system up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....I think we hurt them more than they hurt us.

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That is not saying much for the USA then is it.

Also USA spreading and imposing their version of democracy across the world. No wonder everyone loves them. Thankfully Bush is going, he has sorted out his retirement pension and helped his multinationals director friends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Cuba will be far better off than Haiti.

I tell you what the big thing Cuba could do for us (when they become a democracy of course) ethanol from corn is all well and good but SUGAR is where it's at! Brazil has supposedly had some good success with ethanol derived from sugar and Cuba could export to the US and we could help them out with what our embargo has done to them over 4 decades.


And American tourism in general will bring them MILLIONS...they do have to clean up a bit though some American businesses can create some monster hotels down there and casinos.

Havana would become a mix of Miami and Las Vegas....and think of all the great boxers that will be able to fight in the pros when they stop being a stupid socialist state!!!

---

Cuba will become Haiti with tourism and a couple of skyscrapers in Havana. Ethanol as fuel is just a US socialist subsidy paid to Big Agriculture. It's not even green.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Very few things need to be done to fix the system here the problem is no one is making the changes.

If you want socialized healthcare then go right ahead and vote for Obama or Hillary....you have your opportunity right now.



And why does every motherfucking post have to be someone berating ME about healthcare....you guys do realize that lots of people not paying their bills at the emergency room or hospital adds to the cost of both health insurance AND the cost of the stay at the ER or hospital??? It's not just rich people fucking the system up

---

The only parts of the US healthcare system that work efficiently are the socialised parts. The vast majority of the US system -- the corporate socialist part -- costs many times more than other industrialised countries and is rubbish.

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where health care is pretty much free, its not all its cracked up to be. If I need to go and see my doctor for some mundane reason, then its great. But if I need to get any type of major surgery done, I will most likely have to wait months and even years. An older guy I work with has been waiting 2+ years for knee surgery, surgery he needs; that is not an uncommon situation. Also, there have been private clinics that attempted to open up in some cities here where, if you had the money and didn't want to wait, you could pay for whatever procedure you needed, like in the States, and the fucking government blocked them as being unconstitutional. Which is fucking stupid. Also, doctors make way more money in the U.S. (and elsewhere) because of their system, so the best doctors often adandon Canada to head south to make serious coin. Plus, in about 20-30 years when all the baby-boomers get old its going to fly completely off the rails.

All that being said, I'd still take our system over your most of the time, but I'm a poor student, so I might feel different if I ever actually manage to parlay my education into a successful career.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where health care is pretty much free, its not all its cracked up to be. If I need to go and see my doctor for some mundane reason, then its great. But if I need to get any type of major surgery done, I will most likely have to wait months and even years. An older guy I work with has been waiting 2+ years for knee surgery, surgery he needs; that is not an uncommon situation. Also, there have been private clinics that attempted to open up in some cities here where, if you had the money and didn't want to wait, you could pay for whatever procedure you needed, like in the States, and the fucking government blocked them as being unconstitutional. Which is fucking stupid. Also, doctors make way more money in the U.S. (and elsewhere) because of their system, so the best doctors often adandon Canada to head south to make serious coin. Plus, in about 20-30 years when all the baby-boomers get old its going to fly completely off the rails.

All that being said, I'd still take our system over your most of the time, but I'm a poor student, so I might feel different if I ever actually manage to parlay my education into a successful career.

---

Did you have a wife working for a major health insuarer?
Did it cost you over a thousand dollars to get an infected finger looked at?

is not 6 and two 3s though? No where has free health care... you'll normally pay a shit load of tax to get 'free' healthcare... so even if you think you get free healthcare you've probably spent the same/more on it?

lets say you never need it until the day you die? ??? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CFH

Speaking as someone who lives in a country where health care is pretty much free, its not all its cracked up to be. If I need to go and see my doctor for some mundane reason, then its great. But if I need to get any type of major surgery done, I will most likely have to wait months and even years. An older guy I work with has been waiting 2+ years for knee surgery, surgery he needs; that is not an uncommon situation. Also, there have been private clinics that attempted to open up in some cities here where, if you had the money and didn't want to wait, you could pay for whatever procedure you needed, like in the States, and the fucking government blocked them as being unconstitutional. Which is fucking stupid. Also, doctors make way more money in the U.S. (and elsewhere) because of their system, so the best doctors often adandon Canada to head south to make serious coin. Plus, in about 20-30 years when all the baby-boomers get old its going to fly completely off the rails.

All that being said, I'd still take our system over your most of the time, but I'm a poor student, so I might feel different if I ever actually manage to parlay my education into a successful career.

---

Here's something I read about Canadian healthcare recently. My favourite is point number two, in which the author notes that although Canadian doctors are paid less than their U.S. counterparts, there are also upsides to practicing in Canada:

First, as noted, they don't have to charge higher fees to cover the salary of a full-time staffer to deal with over a hundred different insurers, all of whom are bent on denying care whenever possible. In fact, most Canadian doctors get by quite nicely with just one assistant, who cheerfully handles the phones, mail, scheduling, patient reception, stocking, filing, and billing all by herself in the course of a standard workday.
Second, they don't have to spend several hours every day on the phone cajoling insurance company bean counters into doing the right thing by their patients. My doctor in California worked a 70-hour week: 35 hours seeing patients, and another 35 hours on the phone arguing with insurance companies. My Canadian doctor, on the other hand, works a 35-hour week, period. She files her invoices online, and the vast majority are simply paid — quietly, quickly, and without hassle. There is no runaround. There are no fights. Appointments aren't interrupted by vexing phone calls. Care is seldom denied (because everybody knows the rules). She gets her checks on time, sees her patients on schedule, takes Thursdays off, and gets home in time for dinner.

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Here's something I read about Canadian healthcare recently. My favourite is point number two, in which the author notes that although Canadian doctors are paid less than their U.S. counterparts, there are also upsides to practicing in Canada:

First, as noted, they don't have to charge higher fees to cover the salary of a full-time staffer to deal with over a hundred different insurers, all of whom are bent on denying care whenever possible. In fact, most Canadian doctors get by quite nicely with just one assistant, who cheerfully handles the phones, mail, scheduling, patient reception, stocking, filing, and billing all by herself in the course of a standard workday.

Second, they don't have to spend several hours every day on the phone cajoling insurance company bean counters into doing the right thing by their patients. My doctor in California worked a 70-hour week: 35 hours seeing patients, and another 35 hours on the phone arguing with insurance companies. My Canadian doctor, on the other hand, works a 35-hour week, period. She files her invoices online, and the vast majority are simply paid — quietly, quickly, and without hassle. There is no runaround. There are no fights. Appointments aren't interrupted by vexing phone calls. Care is seldom denied (because everybody knows the rules). She gets her checks on time, sees her patients on schedule, takes Thursdays off, and gets home in time for dinner.

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

---

That's very interesting article, I would not have considered the overhead that U.S. doctors have to deal with nor would I have considered the man hours it would take to deal with all the different health-care providers. I know in my doctors office, its just him and a secretary, but it often feels quite frantic in there, its not uncommon for me to have a 2:00 appointment and not see the doctor until after 3. Also, a lot of doctors here have taken to only dealing with one problem per visit, so if your leg and your head are both fucked up, he's only going to deal with one of them, so you better figure out which needs more immediate attention.
One thing that they kind of gloss over is point #3, wait times here are fucking horrendous, and like I said, just wait until the baby boomers hit 65, they won't be contributing much in the way of taxes and will need a ton of medical care, especially as, just like in the States, we're all a bunch of fat, under-exercising pigs up here.
Also they talk about how taxes here are only about 10% more than in the U.S., but when you consider how much $$ the U.S. spends on other things, IE a functioning military, which Canada basically ignores, you've got to imagine taxes would skyrocket if the U.S. implimented national health care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Did you have a wife working for a major health insuarer?
Did it cost you over a thousand dollars to get an infected finger looked at?

---

No, that would be a shitty situation, no doubt about it. However, if the infected finger was symptomatic of something much more serious, I would like to think I was getting the best medical care money could buy, without having to wait an extended period of time to see a specialist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

No, that would be a shitty situation, no doubt about it. However, if the infected finger was symptomatic of something much more serious, I would like to think I was getting the best medical care money could buy, without having to wait an extended period of time to see a specialist.

---

Hah,you think we just walk in the door here?
If you aint dying,your waiting sahib
We cant even good info on our loved ones if we're in the waiting room
Bro,another myth,reality aint like that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Hah,you think we just walk in the door here?
If you aint dying,your waiting sahib
We cant even good info on our loved ones if we're in the waiting room
Bro,another myth,reality aint like that

---

Admittedly, I do not know much about the American system, but I do know the Canadian one will not be functioning for too much longer if it does not get seriously overhauled, which it almost surely never will.
If you potentially had something seriously wrong with you, lets say you needed a CAT scan, how long would you have to wait in the States?
Just for something to compare wait times with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CFH

That's very interesting article, I would not have considered the overhead that U.S. doctors have to deal with nor would I have considered the man hours it would take to deal with all the different health-care providers. I know in my doctors office, its just him and a secretary, but it often feels quite frantic in there, its not uncommon for me to have a 2:00 appointment and not see the doctor until after 3. Also, a lot of doctors here have taken to only dealing with one problem per visit, so if your leg and your head are both fucked up, he's only going to deal with one of them, so you better figure out which needs more immediate attention.
One thing that they kind of gloss over is point #3, wait times here are fucking horrendous, and like I said, just wait until the baby boomers hit 65, they won't be contributing much in the way of taxes and will need a ton of medical care, especially as, just like in the States, we're all a bunch of fat, under-exercising pigs up here.
Also they talk about how taxes here are only about 10% more than in the U.S., but when you consider how much $$ the U.S. spends on other things, IE a functioning military, which Canada basically ignores, you've got to imagine taxes would skyrocket if the U.S. implimented national health care.

---

The US spends a lot more on healthcare than most developed nations do and with a far worse overall result. The only parts of the US system that function competitively and efficiently are the parts that are socialised. When the baby boomers retire the inefficient and expensive US corporate socialist healthcare system will collapse and be replaced by one like Canada's, unless pressure from US corporations who face global uncompetitiveness from soaring healthcare costs compared to their socialised healthcare country competitors doesn't bring about change first.

Canada doesn't need a military as it faces no serious threat and doesn't have a empire to run. If it did run a empire the economic growth from the empire would have meant low taxes in Canada too.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

According to the OECD rankings of healthcare systems the US comes in just behind Costa Rica.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapsho...s/figure-1.gif


EDIT : This is cost per person per year for healthcare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Admittedly, I do not know much about the American system, but I do know the Canadian one will not be functioning for too much longer if it does not get seriously overhauled, which it almost surely never will.
If you potentially had something seriously wrong with you, lets say you needed a CAT scan, how long would you have to wait in the States?
Just for something to compare wait times with.

---

Depends on your current condition.. I mean, if you're taken into the ER and they need to figure out what's wrong with you asap, then you'll get it done on the spot..

But, for example, i had recurring migraines when i was younger, and after visiting the doctor 2 or 3 times he suggested i should get one.. You get a slip of paper, and then you go to the building where they do x-rays/cat scans etc, and you get it done..

Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is how i'd go about it.. I'd go to my normal doctor, ask him if he'd recommend a cat scan, or tell him i'd like to get one just to be safe, and he'll fill out a sheet of paper saying my name, and saying what i need done, and tell me to take it to the lab where they do CAT scans.. it's really that simple.

Other things that may take longer, like an MRI or something like that, are usually scheduled within the same week.

Stupid question..

Does 'free healthcare' include prescription drugs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

The US spends a lot more on healthcare than most developed nations do and with a far worse overall result. The only parts of the US system that function competitively and efficiently are the parts that are socialised. When the baby boomers retire the inefficient and expensive US corporate socialist healthcare system will collapse and be replaced by one like Canada's, unless pressure from US corporations who face global uncompetitiveness from soaring healthcare costs compared to their socialised healthcare country competitors doesn't bring about change first.

Canada doesn't need a military as it faces no serious threat and doesn't have a empire to run. If it did run a empire the economic growth from the empire would have meant low taxes in Canada too.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

According to the OECD rankings of healthcare systems the US comes in just behind Costa Rica.

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Canada doesn't need a military because we have a badass friend to the south who looks out for us. If it wasn't for the U.S., I think the resources alone in Canada would attract some trouble. Not that I'm sure anyone could actually reasonable conquer and pacify country this size

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RP33

Stupid question..

Does 'free healthcare' include prescription drugs?

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Not here it doesn't, but a lot of employers have plans that will cover them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RP33

Stupid question..

Does 'free healthcare' include prescription drugs?

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Pretty much. You may have to pay a few pounds per prescription if you're employed but under 16/over 65/unemployed it's free. Some prescriptions in the States can cost a couple of hundred dollars a month, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RP33

Depends on your current condition.. I mean, if you're taken into the ER and they need to figure out what's wrong with you asap, then you'll get it done on the spot..

But, for example, i had recurring migraines when i was younger, and after visiting the doctor 2 or 3 times he suggested i should get one.. You get a slip of paper, and then you go to the building where they do x-rays/cat scans etc, and you get it done..

Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is how i'd go about it.. I'd go to my normal doctor, ask him if he'd recommend a cat scan, or tell him i'd like to get one just to be safe, and he'll fill out a sheet of paper saying my name, and saying what i need done, and tell me to take it to the lab where they do CAT scans.. it's really that simple.

Other things that may take longer, like an MRI or something like that, are usually scheduled within the same week.

---

I was asking about CAT scans because I'm supposed to go and get one. It most likely is not serious, but there is a chance that I might have some sort of neurological problem, so my doctor wants to make sure. I'll have to wait for at least 2 months to get it done, and that's a best case senario, so I was just curious how long you guys would have to wait because TM said that there were wait times down there as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Canada doesn't need a military because we have a badass friend to the south who looks out for us. If it wasn't for the U.S., I think the resources alone in Canada would attract some trouble. Not that I'm sure anyone could actually reasonable conquer and pacify country this size

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Who "looks out for you"? Calm down, for god's sake, Canada faces no threat whatsoever. The only country on earth whose economy could concievably afford an occupation of Canada is the US but it would still be impossible for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Not here it doesn't, but a lot of employers have plans that will cover them.

---

just curious.. because there are a few ways to look at it..

For the everyday run of the mill cold/sinus etc problems, people would be at the doctors office holding up spots for people who are actually sick.. I think that as far as the US goes, if our healthcare BECOMES (key word) free, then it would be different if originally it was free.. Meaning, while we're alive here in the US, if it becomes free, you will have everyone saying "oh, your head hurts?.. well go check it out, it's free now".. There will be a few generations of this until people take it seriously and only go to the Doctor for real problems.. It would be like if anything else that we normally paid for became free.. we'd overuse it..



Anyway, for the above stated illnesses it would really suck due to time waiting to see a doctor and such.. But as far as terminal illnesses and such go, it would be great.. Everyone would be able to have a fair chance at staying alive and getting the care they needed.. My sister's friend, has a son who is something like 1 year old and he has some sort of cancer in his eye, and the Co-Pay for his medicine is upwards of $500.. just the co-pay, the insurance covers the rest.. Thankfully she has a lot of money (she runs a daycare) so she is able to afford this medication.. But a middle class type of income would struggle..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Not here it doesn't, but a lot of employers have plans that will cover them.

---

Not here it doesnt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CFH

I was asking about CAT scans because I'm supposed to go and get one. It most likely is not serious, but there is a chance that I might have some sort of neurological problem, so my doctor wants to make sure. I'll have to wait for at least 2 months to get it done, and that's a best case senario, so I was just curious how long you guys would have to wait because TM said that there were wait times down there as well.

---

Yeah, again, it depends on your condition normally.. I live in a very densely populated area here, so i think that if there was someone who could answer the question, it would probably be myself.. If i woke up tomorrow morning, and wanted a CAT scan done, i'd call my doctor, and they'd schedule me probably by the end of the week to see me, considering it's not considered a "sick visit".. If it was a "sick visit", then if i call early enough in the day when they first open, I'd normally be able to get in by the end of the day.. So anyway, i get the appointment (the non-sick visit) by the end of the week, lets say friday.. I go in, tell him i want a CAT scan, if he agrees, then he writes me out a sheet and with something like a CAT scan, it doesn't take long so i can usually just go at my earliest convenience.. i could wait a few weeks if i wanted, or i could go on my way home..

Not the long ago, i broke my toe, and the Doctor wanted me to get an x-ray just to make sure that there were no problem with the joints or something because it could require surgery if that were the case or something.. so he wrote me out a sheet saying which toe on which foot i needed x-ray'd and then i drove down the street to the lab, and they did it for me on the spot..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Who "looks out for you"? Calm down, for god's sake, Canada faces no threat whatsoever. The only country on earth whose economy could concievably afford an occupation of Canada is the US but it would still be impossible for them.

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Lol, I'm not upset about anything, but the US is a big reason that Canada doesn't face many threats. We do face some threats, Al Queda has threatened Canada before.