Giving Joe Calzaghe Credit For Beating This Version Of RJJ.....

Is just being a fan boy IMO and totally being biased. I'll copy and paste what i said in the other thread which is a fair comment IMO.

Well im not a Joe Calzaghe hater but if you give Joe Calzaghe any real credit. For beating RJJ i think your seriously being biased, RJJ last stoppage win was in 2002 against Clinton Woods, and in his last comeback fights he didn't show stamina or a killer instinct. And he only showed flashes of his old self, "flashes" being the key word here.

Give him credit for beating Chris Eubank although he was weight drained which does take away from Joe Calzaghe's win somewhat. It was still a good performance and Chris Eubank still had quite alot left in the tank, which showed in his great performance's against Carl Thompson.

Give him credit for beating Mikkel Kessler, who was the number 2 man in the division at that time. Who was a very dangerous opponent who has very good skills, and can punch.

Give him credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, although disputable Bernard Hopkins still has alot left in the tank. Which showed against Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik.

But i will give him no credit for beating a shot RJJ, or beating the overhyped Jeff Lacy. Who was struggling against mediocre opposition even before he got embarrassed against Joe Calzaghe.

roy offered nothing so i dont think its that great an achievement, but that been said he did what he always does and beat the man in front of him. as for lacy it was the fight everyone wanted and joe put on a champions exhibiton, i give him credit for that

Now that I've seen it clearly, I am not that impressed at all. Joe Calzaghe outworked a guy wasn't throwing punches, in the middle of the ring when Roy was punching even though he is way slower then in his prime Calzaghe couldn't react at all except throwing himself way out of position trying to get out of the way. If he did that against Prime Jones he would have been assaulted by combination after combination. After seeing it again its become clear to me that Roy's speed is too much.

I don't think this win does anything for Calzaghe's legacy at all. I think beating Hopkins did though. I've been saying all day that RJJ, Hop and JC all have records that you can easily pick apart, but you can't argue with an unbeaten record, same as you can't say, Hopkins wouldn't have still been champ for 10 years if he didn't fight stiffs.

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Of course RJJ would get more credit isn't that obvious ? he was considered a shot fighter. And at 39 years old it would of been a great achievement beating a top 4 P4P fighter.

Just like if George Foreman would of lost to Michael Moorer, Michael Moorer wouldn't have gotten the credit George Foreman did. Thats the way it works.

Fenster you are biased to Joe Calzaghe, you do give facts/stats ETC but you twist them in a way to suit Joe Calzaghe.

People who were picking RJJ were "hoping" RJJ would turn back the clock. Hoping is the key word here Fenster.

The fact is RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win or the killer instinct since 2002. He couldn't finish off Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, when he had them in huge trouble.

For the simple reason he hasn't got fire in his belly anymore. He has only shown "flashes" of his old self in his comeback fights. Again Fenster flashes being the key word here again.

And he has only shown flashes because of the opposition he was up against. Lets be fair here and give Joe Calzaghe his credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, because Bernard Hopkins is a very young 43 year old with plenty still left.

But giving Joe Calzaghe alot of credit for beating a fighter, who hasn't had a good showing for atleast 6 or 7 years, is being biased to Joe Calzaghe and not fair.

My question is when did guys like Bika ever give Roy problems when he was anywhere near his prime? The most similar guy to that is Merqui Sosa who Roy knocked out in 2 rounds. They are similar fighters Roy and Joe, but Roy is that much faster, and hits that much harder, and punches that much straighter.

Once again didn't Glen Johnson beat Roy THAT easily? And Roy was actually throwing combinations in that fight, Didn't Tarver beat Roy THAT easily in their third fight?

Thats why Joe is not getting any respect, because he doesn't deserve it FOR THIS FIGHT

Against Kessler I give him all the credit in the world, Kessler is a really good fighter and Joe beat him handily. Joe had a very close fight with Bernard where he kept on imposing himself more and more in the fight, but I think that was because Bernard is so old, but still Bernard is still an amazing fighter, and Joe gets a lot of credit for what he did, but still Jermain Taylor fought just as well against Bernard, Roy fought better against a much younger Bernard who was on the verge of his prime IMO.

Why did you pick Jones then?

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Originally Posted by amat

Why did you pick Jones then?

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Because im a fan and i was rooting for one of my favorite fighters, just like with MAB vs Pacquiao 2. I actually said before the fight Joe Calzaghe is a heavy favorite.

I was hoping RJJ could turn back the clock, but he couldn't. Just like i said leading up to this fight RJJ is a shot fighter.

I thought from midway on Joe Battered him and toyed with him at will...The evidence was on Jones face ;)

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Originally Posted by smashup

I thought from midway on Joe Battered him and toyed with him at will...The evidence was on Jones face ;)

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I thought he done it all night long Smashup, RJJ had 1 or 2 goodish rounds and that was it. He was there for the paycheck he didn't even try and win.

Joe Calzaghe was leaving himself wide open and RJJ done nothing, rubbish fight IMO.

Nobody that picked Jones to win, can now say that Calzaghe doesn't deserve credit coz Jones is shot - Fact ;)

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Originally Posted by amat

Why did you pick Jones then?

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I don't know why ICB picked him to win, but I've always said that unless Roy actually punches he won't win. He didn't punch and he didn't win. I was agreeing everytime people said that Joe was going to win easily.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Of course RJJ would get more credit isn't that obvious ? he was considered a shot fighter. And at 39 years old it would of been a great achievement beating a top 4 P4P fighter.

Just like if George Foreman would of lost to Michael Moorer, Michael Moorer wouldn't have gotten the credit George Foreman did. Thats the way it works.

Fenster you are biased to Joe Calzaghe, you do give facts/stats ETC but you twist them in a way to suit Joe Calzaghe.

People who were picking RJJ were "hoping" RJJ would turn back the clock. Hoping is the key word here Fenster.

The fact is RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win or the killer instinct since 2002. He couldn't finish off Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, when he had them in huge trouble.

For the simple reason he hasn't got fire in his belly anymore. He has only shown "flashes" of his old self in his comeback fights. Again Fenster flashes being the key word here again.

And he has only shown flashes because of the opposition he was up against. Lets be fair here and give Joe Calzaghe his credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, because Bernard Hopkins is a very young 43 year old with plenty still left.

But giving Joe Calzaghe alot of credit for beating a fighter, who hasn't had a good showing for atleast 6 or 7 years, is being biased to Joe Calzaghe and not fair.

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Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Nobody that picked Jones to win, can now say that Calzaghe doesn't deserve credit coz Jones is shot - Fact ;)

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BIG H its bit like you wanting England to win the world cup, you know they haven't got a hope in hell but you still root for em ;)

I also felt when Roy's hands were down Joe certainly wasn't landing anything either, he only landed weak body punches, albeit a lot of them, but he wasn't impressive either, maybe his speed was to a degree, but I also saw that he couldn't deal with Roy's speed when Roy punched, not that he couldn't get out of the way, but that he was out of position when he got out of the way, there almost no effective countering on either's guy's part, but Roy hasn't been countering effectively against lesser opponents so I didn't expect it from him, but you could see that Roy was just missing his counters, and he was covering up too much and not getting off. I think even the Roy that fought Tarver the first time gives Joe a very, very tough fight.

I said all along that Jones was past it. He beat two journeyman and a washed up Trinidad on his comeback and some people acted like he was back. Hell, I thought Anthony freakin Hanshaw gave him a decent run for his money for the first half of the fight or so.

Calzaghe made a mistake by not fighting Pavlik first. He probably would have been the one to expose the young lion instead of Hopkins, adding to his legacy. Instead, he chose Jones because he's a bigger name and brought a bigger payday. But he could have fought Jones after Pavlik for his farewell bout. Beating this version of Jones does little for him other than fill his bank account.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Of course RJJ would get more credit isn't that obvious ? he was considered a shot fighter. And at 39 years old it would of been a great achievement beating a top 4 P4P fighter.

Just like if George Foreman would of lost to Michael Moorer, Michael Moorer wouldn't have gotten the credit George Foreman did. Thats the way it works.

Fenster you are biased to Joe Calzaghe, you do give facts/stats ETC but you twist them in a way to suit Joe Calzaghe.

People who were picking RJJ were "hoping" RJJ would turn back the clock. Hoping is the key word here Fenster.

The fact is RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win or the killer instinct since 2002. He couldn't finish off Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, when he had them in huge trouble.

For the simple reason he hasn't got fire in his belly anymore. He has only shown "flashes" of his old self in his comeback fights. Again Fenster flashes being the key word here again.

And he has only shown flashes because of the opposition he was up against. Lets be fair here and give Joe Calzaghe his credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, because Bernard Hopkins is a very young 43 year old with plenty still left.

But giving Joe Calzaghe alot of credit for beating a fighter, who hasn't had a good showing for atleast 6 or 7 years, is being biased to Joe Calzaghe and not fair.

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Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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I didn't say everyone there again your twisting what im saying, but most people were "hoping". Some people obviously had genuine arguments on how RJJ would win.

But again that doesn't change the fact that RJJ is a shot fighter, and hasn't had a good showing since 2002.

Im asking you right now on the spot what had RJJ done in the last few years, that warranted a shot against Joe Calzaghe ? other than being a name for his past achievements ?

Because according to Joe Calzaghe, Felix Trinidad vs RJJ. Was a fight between two old hasbeen's. So if thats true why did he fight RJJ ? because obviously he also considered RJJ a shot fighter based on that comment ? he contradicts himself all the time.

If your honestly going to sit there and tell me RJJ isn't a shot fighter, and based on his comeback fights that he done anything to warrant a shot against Joe Calzaghe. And that based on his comeback fights and his last fight against Joe Calzaghe, that Joe Calzaghe deserves alot of credit for this win.

Then we might aswell end this debate right now because were not going to get anywhere, i was hoping RJJ to win and if he did win i would consider it a great achievement and i would be very happy. Because of his age and how far he has dropped off the rankings, it would of course be a great comeback/achievement over a top 4 P4P fighter.

But facts are facts as you like to put it Fenster, RJJ hasn't been the same fighter since dropping down to Light Heavyweight. And just because a few experts picked RJJ does not mean he wasn't a shot fighter.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Of course RJJ would get more credit isn't that obvious ? he was considered a shot fighter. And at 39 years old it would of been a great achievement beating a top 4 P4P fighter.

Just like if George Foreman would of lost to Michael Moorer, Michael Moorer wouldn't have gotten the credit George Foreman did. Thats the way it works.

Fenster you are biased to Joe Calzaghe, you do give facts/stats ETC but you twist them in a way to suit Joe Calzaghe.

People who were picking RJJ were "hoping" RJJ would turn back the clock. Hoping is the key word here Fenster.

The fact is RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win or the killer instinct since 2002. He couldn't finish off Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, when he had them in huge trouble.

For the simple reason he hasn't got fire in his belly anymore. He has only shown "flashes" of his old self in his comeback fights. Again Fenster flashes being the key word here again.

And he has only shown flashes because of the opposition he was up against. Lets be fair here and give Joe Calzaghe his credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, because Bernard Hopkins is a very young 43 year old with plenty still left.

But giving Joe Calzaghe alot of credit for beating a fighter, who hasn't had a good showing for atleast 6 or 7 years, is being biased to Joe Calzaghe and not fair.

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Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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eh, i've never really seen ICB gloat.. I think it was shane mosely who sort of summarized most of the RJJ fans views.. said something that he wanted RJJ to win but that calzaghe was too heavily favored..

In just about every pre-fight analysis, when asked who has more to gain/lose from this fight, the answer was always calzaghe.. if he lost he would've been slaughtered, you're right.. and now that he has won, he beat 39 year old shell of a fighter, and doesn't get credit..

If roy goes on to beat a young up and comer, like hopkins did, then calzaghe would get a lot more credit for this, but id on't see this happening..

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Calzaghe deserves credit because PLENTY of people picked him to lose. Including PLENTY of "EXPERTS."

If Roy had won would no-one be giving him credit? Nobody would be gloating over Calzaghe's loss?

Calzaghe would have been SLAUGHTERED.

If the fight was even remotely close Calzaghe would have been slagged-off something cronic.

Now people are moaning about him winning too EASILY.. that he showboated too much. ;D

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Absolutely spot on:britain:

:badass::badass::badass:

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Nobody that picked Jones to win, can now say that Calzaghe doesn't deserve credit coz Jones is shot - Fact ;)

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BIG H its bit like you wanting England to win the world cup, you know they haven't got a hope in hell but you still root for em ;)

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Wanting (rooting) and Believing (Picking) are very different mate

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

Of course RJJ would get more credit isn't that obvious ? he was considered a shot fighter. And at 39 years old it would of been a great achievement beating a top 4 P4P fighter.

Just like if George Foreman would of lost to Michael Moorer, Michael Moorer wouldn't have gotten the credit George Foreman did. Thats the way it works.

Fenster you are biased to Joe Calzaghe, you do give facts/stats ETC but you twist them in a way to suit Joe Calzaghe.

People who were picking RJJ were "hoping" RJJ would turn back the clock. Hoping is the key word here Fenster.

The fact is RJJ hasn't had a stoppage win or the killer instinct since 2002. He couldn't finish off Felix Trinidad, Anthony Hanshaw, when he had them in huge trouble.

For the simple reason he hasn't got fire in his belly anymore. He has only shown "flashes" of his old self in his comeback fights. Again Fenster flashes being the key word here again.

And he has only shown flashes because of the opposition he was up against. Lets be fair here and give Joe Calzaghe his credit for beating Bernard Hopkins, because Bernard Hopkins is a very young 43 year old with plenty still left.

But giving Joe Calzaghe alot of credit for beating a fighter, who hasn't had a good showing for atleast 6 or 7 years, is being biased to Joe Calzaghe and not fair.

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Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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I didn't say everyone there again your twisting what im saying, but most people were "hoping". Some people obviously had genuine arguments on how RJJ would win.

But again that doesn't change the fact that RJJ is a shot fighter, and hasn't had a good showing since 2002.

Im asking you right now on the spot what had RJJ done in the last few years, that warranted a shot against Joe Calzaghe ? other than being a name for his past achievements ?

Because according to Joe Calzaghe, Felix Trinidad vs RJJ. Was a fight between two old hasbeen's. So if thats true why did he fight RJJ ? because obviously he also considered RJJ a shot fighter based on that comment ? he contradicts himself all the time.

If your honestly going to sit there and tell me RJJ isn't a shot fighter, and based on his comeback fights that he done anything to warrant a shot against Joe Calzaghe. And that based on his comeback fights and his last fight against Joe Calzaghe, that Joe Calzaghe deserves alot of credit for this win.

Then we might aswell end this debate right now because were not going to get anywhere, i was hoping RJJ to win and if he did win i would consider it a great achievement and i would be very happy. Because of his age and how far he has dropped off the rankings, it would of course be a great comeback/achievement over a top 4 P4P fighter.

But facts are facts as you like to put it Fenster, RJJ hasn't been the same fighter since dropping down to Light Heavyweight. And just because a few experts picked RJJ does not mean he wasn't a shot fighter.

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I picked Calzaghe to win EASY!!! I was right. I don't have to answer for anything.

You can't MOAN, CRY and DISCREDIT Calzaghe's WIN if you believed he would LOSE. That would make you an inconsistent hypocrite.

ANYONE that thought Roy would WIN should be PRAISING Calzaghe. Fact. Especially if you thought he was "shot." It OBVIOUSLY means Calzaghe is a better fighter than you thought. ;)

(wheres these facts i twist to suit Calzaghe?)

This was a Tyson-Holmes type situation, and I agree that this wasnt a career defining win. A good win but not great. If it was a decade ago it would have been a great win.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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I didn't say everyone there again your twisting what im saying, but most people were "hoping". Some people obviously had genuine arguments on how RJJ would win.

But again that doesn't change the fact that RJJ is a shot fighter, and hasn't had a good showing since 2002.

Im asking you right now on the spot what had RJJ done in the last few years, that warranted a shot against Joe Calzaghe ? other than being a name for his past achievements ?

Because according to Joe Calzaghe, Felix Trinidad vs RJJ. Was a fight between two old hasbeen's. So if thats true why did he fight RJJ ? because obviously he also considered RJJ a shot fighter based on that comment ? he contradicts himself all the time.

If your honestly going to sit there and tell me RJJ isn't a shot fighter, and based on his comeback fights that he done anything to warrant a shot against Joe Calzaghe. And that based on his comeback fights and his last fight against Joe Calzaghe, that Joe Calzaghe deserves alot of credit for this win.

Then we might aswell end this debate right now because were not going to get anywhere, i was hoping RJJ to win and if he did win i would consider it a great achievement and i would be very happy. Because of his age and how far he has dropped off the rankings, it would of course be a great comeback/achievement over a top 4 P4P fighter.

But facts are facts as you like to put it Fenster, RJJ hasn't been the same fighter since dropping down to Light Heavyweight. And just because a few experts picked RJJ does not mean he wasn't a shot fighter.

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I picked Calzaghe to win EASY!!! I was right. I don't have to answer for anything.

You can't MOAN, CRY and DISCREDIT Calzaghe's WIN if you believed he would LOSE. That would make you an inconsistent hypocrite.

ANYONE that thought Roy would WIN should be PRAISING Calzaghe. Fact. Especially if you thought he was "shot." It OBVIOUSLY means Calzaghe is a better fighter than you thought. ;)

(wheres these facts i twist to suit Calzaghe?)

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Im not moaning or crying im asking you to give me a legit, argument why RJJ deserved to fight Joe Calzaghe ? and what he had done in the past few years to suggest he deserved the fight ?

I asked you this last time and you avoided the question, your saying i should call it a great win for Joe Calzaghe and praise him. Yet you cannot give me a legit argument why i should ?

I already gave you the reason's why i thought RJJ was shot, and why i don't think he deserved the fight. And you have yet to counter any of my arguments which i listed above.

And your last comment makes no sense i thought RJJ was shot, then why should that mean because Joe Calzaghe beat him. That i should now think Joe Calzaghe is a better fighter than i thought ? that makes no sense.

Meh, Joe's a great fighter, but from day one I said this was a farce. If I had any money I would have put it on Joe, I could have sold blood and sperm and used the proceeds, hindsight is twenty twenty. Joe deserves credit for beating Kessler and Hopkins definitely though.

Lacy's a funny one. I know Calzaghe fans go on about how nobody was saying Lacy was overrated before hand which is true but events including the Calzaghe fight and since then clearly show that he was overrated.

Seventeen posts to go.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

I didn't say everyone there again your twisting what im saying, but most people were "hoping". Some people obviously had genuine arguments on how RJJ would win.

But again that doesn't change the fact that RJJ is a shot fighter, and hasn't had a good showing since 2002.

Im asking you right now on the spot what had RJJ done in the last few years, that warranted a shot against Joe Calzaghe ? other than being a name for his past achievements ?

Because according to Joe Calzaghe, Felix Trinidad vs RJJ. Was a fight between two old hasbeen's. So if thats true why did he fight RJJ ? because obviously he also considered RJJ a shot fighter based on that comment ? he contradicts himself all the time.

If your honestly going to sit there and tell me RJJ isn't a shot fighter, and based on his comeback fights that he done anything to warrant a shot against Joe Calzaghe. And that based on his comeback fights and his last fight against Joe Calzaghe, that Joe Calzaghe deserves alot of credit for this win.

Then we might aswell end this debate right now because were not going to get anywhere, i was hoping RJJ to win and if he did win i would consider it a great achievement and i would be very happy. Because of his age and how far he has dropped off the rankings, it would of course be a great comeback/achievement over a top 4 P4P fighter.

But facts are facts as you like to put it Fenster, RJJ hasn't been the same fighter since dropping down to Light Heavyweight. And just because a few experts picked RJJ does not mean he wasn't a shot fighter.

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I picked Calzaghe to win EASY!!! I was right. I don't have to answer for anything.

You can't MOAN, CRY and DISCREDIT Calzaghe's WIN if you believed he would LOSE. That would make you an inconsistent hypocrite.

ANYONE that thought Roy would WIN should be PRAISING Calzaghe. Fact. Especially if you thought he was "shot." It OBVIOUSLY means Calzaghe is a better fighter than you thought. ;)

(wheres these facts i twist to suit Calzaghe?)

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Im not moaning or crying im asking you to give me a legit, argument why RJJ deserved to fight Joe Calzaghe ? and what he had done in the past few years to suggest he deserved the fight ?

I asked you this last time and you avoided the question, your saying i should call it a great win for Joe Calzaghe and praise him. Yet you cannot give me a legit argument why i should ?

I already gave you the reason's why i thought RJJ was shot, and why i don't think he deserved the fight. And you have yet to counter any of my arguments which i listed above.

And your last comment makes no sense i thought RJJ was shot, then why should that mean because Joe Calzaghe beat him. That i should now think Joe Calzaghe is a better fighter than i thought ? that makes no sense.

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You're making no sense.

YOU picked Roy.. not me. Why do I have to justify Roy's shot at Calzaghe? I thought Calzaghe would win. I was right. Whether i thought Roy was past his best or not is irrelevant.

The question you need to answer is - for yourself not for me - WHY did you BELIEVE a "shot" fighter would beat Calzaghe?

You love to point out how good or crap certain fighters are yet you picked a "shot" fighter to beat Calzaghe.

If you find the answer to that you'll understand why you are making threads denigrating people for giving Calzaghe credit for beating a legend. ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I picked Calzaghe to win EASY!!! I was right. I don't have to answer for anything.

You can't MOAN, CRY and DISCREDIT Calzaghe's WIN if you believed he would LOSE. That would make you an inconsistent hypocrite.

ANYONE that thought Roy would WIN should be PRAISING Calzaghe. Fact. Especially if you thought he was "shot." It OBVIOUSLY means Calzaghe is a better fighter than you thought. ;)

(wheres these facts i twist to suit Calzaghe?)

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Im not moaning or crying im asking you to give me a legit, argument why RJJ deserved to fight Joe Calzaghe ? and what he had done in the past few years to suggest he deserved the fight ?

I asked you this last time and you avoided the question, your saying i should call it a great win for Joe Calzaghe and praise him. Yet you cannot give me a legit argument why i should ?

I already gave you the reason's why i thought RJJ was shot, and why i don't think he deserved the fight. And you have yet to counter any of my arguments which i listed above.

And your last comment makes no sense i thought RJJ was shot, then why should that mean because Joe Calzaghe beat him. That i should now think Joe Calzaghe is a better fighter than i thought ? that makes no sense.

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You're making no sense.

YOU picked Roy.. not me. Why do I have to justify Roy's shot at Calzaghe? I thought Calzaghe would win. I was right. Whether i thought Roy was past his best or not is irrelevant.

The question you need to answer is - for yourself not for me - WHY did you BELIEVE a "shot" fighter would beat Calzaghe?

You love to point out how good or crap certain fighters are yet you picked a "shot" fighter to beat Calzaghe.

If you find the answer to that you'll understand why you are making threads denigrating people for giving Calzaghe credit for beating a legend. ;)

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Uhh have you not read what i said ? i said i was rooting for RJJ but i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite, just like when i rooted for MAB against Manny Pacquiao i had Manny Pacquiao as the favorite.

Rooting for a fighter because there one of your favorites, then saying you have the other fighter as the favorite, is hardly picking RJJ is it ?

And stop avoiding the question this is 4 times now you have avoided it, what has Roy Jones done in the past few years. That should warrant me giving Joe Calzaghe alot of praise for beating RJJ ?

Forgetting past achievements because thats nothing to do with it, were talking the last few years. After the brutal loss to Glen Johnson, what performance from RJJ. Or what good name has RJJ beat that warranted him deserving a shot against Joe Calzaghe. Or warrants me giving Joe Calzaghe credit for beating RJJ, based on the last few years ?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

Im not moaning or crying im asking you to give me a legit, argument why RJJ deserved to fight Joe Calzaghe ? and what he had done in the past few years to suggest he deserved the fight ?

I asked you this last time and you avoided the question, your saying i should call it a great win for Joe Calzaghe and praise him. Yet you cannot give me a legit argument why i should ?

I already gave you the reason's why i thought RJJ was shot, and why i don't think he deserved the fight. And you have yet to counter any of my arguments which i listed above.

And your last comment makes no sense i thought RJJ was shot, then why should that mean because Joe Calzaghe beat him. That i should now think Joe Calzaghe is a better fighter than i thought ? that makes no sense.

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You're making no sense.

YOU picked Roy.. not me. Why do I have to justify Roy's shot at Calzaghe? I thought Calzaghe would win. I was right. Whether i thought Roy was past his best or not is irrelevant.

The question you need to answer is - for yourself not for me - WHY did you BELIEVE a "shot" fighter would beat Calzaghe?

You love to point out how good or crap certain fighters are yet you picked a "shot" fighter to beat Calzaghe.

If you find the answer to that you'll understand why you are making threads denigrating people for giving Calzaghe credit for beating a legend. ;)

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Uhh have you not read what i said ? i said i was rooting for RJJ but i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite, just like when i rooted for MAB against Manny Pacquiao i had Manny Pacquiao as the favorite.

Rooting for a fighter because there one of your favorites, then saying you have the other fighter as the favorite, is hardly picking RJJ is it ?

And stop avoiding the question this is 4 times now you have avoided it, what has Roy Jones done in the past few years. That should warrant me giving Joe Calzaghe alot of praise for beating RJJ ?

Forgetting past achievements because thats nothing to do with it, were talking the last few years. After the brutal loss to Glen Johnson, what performance from RJJ. Or what good name has RJJ beat that warranted him deserving a shot against Joe Calzaghe. Or warrants me giving Joe Calzaghe credit for beating RJJ, based on the last few years ?

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Blimey, i think you've confused yourself.

Lets make it simple..

Did you pick Roy or Joe to win this fight?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Show me where i twist the facts to suit Calzaghe? Facts are facts.

So all the people picking Jones were just "hoping" he does? Even though they KNEW about all these lack of "flashes" and "killer instinct" they STILL picked Jones just "hoping?" How fucking CONVENIENT. And completely GUTLESS!!!

JT made sound reasons for a Roy win along with Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Jeff Lacy, Glen Johnson, Vernon Forrest, James Toney, Powderpuff Malignaggi, Winky Wright ETC... along with a ton of press "experts."

If Roy had won you'd be telling EVERYONE how great you are for picking Roy.

You can't have it both ways. ;)

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I didn't say everyone there again your twisting what im saying, but most people were "hoping". Some people obviously had genuine arguments on how RJJ would win.

But again that doesn't change the fact that RJJ is a shot fighter, and hasn't had a good showing since 2002.

Im asking you right now on the spot what had RJJ done in the last few years, that warranted a shot against Joe Calzaghe ? other than being a name for his past achievements ?

Because according to Joe Calzaghe, Felix Trinidad vs RJJ. Was a fight between two old hasbeen's. So if thats true why did he fight RJJ ? because obviously he also considered RJJ a shot fighter based on that comment ? he contradicts himself all the time.

If your honestly going to sit there and tell me RJJ isn't a shot fighter, and based on his comeback fights that he done anything to warrant a shot against Joe Calzaghe. And that based on his comeback fights and his last fight against Joe Calzaghe, that Joe Calzaghe deserves alot of credit for this win.

Then we might aswell end this debate right now because were not going to get anywhere, i was hoping RJJ to win and if he did win i would consider it a great achievement and i would be very happy. Because of his age and how far he has dropped off the rankings, it would of course be a great comeback/achievement over a top 4 P4P fighter.

But facts are facts as you like to put it Fenster, RJJ hasn't been the same fighter since dropping down to Light Heavyweight. And just because a few experts picked RJJ does not mean he wasn't a shot fighter.

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I picked Calzaghe to win EASY!!! I was right. I don't have to answer for anything.

You can't MOAN, CRY and DISCREDIT Calzaghe's WIN if you believed he would LOSE. That would make you an inconsistent hypocrite.

ANYONE that thought Roy would WIN should be PRAISING Calzaghe. Fact. Especially if you thought he was "shot." It OBVIOUSLY means Calzaghe is a better fighter than you thought. ;)

(wheres these facts i twist to suit Calzaghe?)

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I wanted Roy to win this,wanted to see the underdog get up and go hard make something of it.
He isnt explosive anymore and thats where he collected all his wins,so its over he cant train it back into himself as we had hoped he might.

Joe did great and made it look as easy as he could by fartin around as he did it and really who wouldn't mirror someone who continually smirked at you and gave no respect?

Joe was down too and he got back up and just went on with it.
Top marks.

*Bernard is going to want a rematch and if Joe could go again ,make him look less of the fighter than he is by fighting a real fight, then that would be the great finish to his careera that both him and everyone was looking for.

Roy lost this one for himself which is why Joe tried to make it look easy.

Full marks.

Well i guess i'm a fan boy ???

i think its great what Joe has achived throughout his career.. i picked Lacy to beat him and thought he put on a master class.

I have slated Joe in the past for some of the fights he has taken, Manfredo i was on his case bigtime because i feel he can do far better than that. and to me now he has.

still not seen this fight yet had a really busy weekend but am gonna soon.

i doubt he will retire but prob should as he aint getting any younger and will never get the credit he deserves from people who just don't like him.

but from me WELL DONE JOE... great fighter, great legacy IMO 8)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Fenster

You're making no sense.

YOU picked Roy.. not me. Why do I have to justify Roy's shot at Calzaghe? I thought Calzaghe would win. I was right. Whether i thought Roy was past his best or not is irrelevant.

The question you need to answer is - for yourself not for me - WHY did you BELIEVE a "shot" fighter would beat Calzaghe?

You love to point out how good or crap certain fighters are yet you picked a "shot" fighter to beat Calzaghe.

If you find the answer to that you'll understand why you are making threads denigrating people for giving Calzaghe credit for beating a legend. ;)

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Uhh have you not read what i said ? i said i was rooting for RJJ but i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite, just like when i rooted for MAB against Manny Pacquiao i had Manny Pacquiao as the favorite.

Rooting for a fighter because there one of your favorites, then saying you have the other fighter as the favorite, is hardly picking RJJ is it ?

And stop avoiding the question this is 4 times now you have avoided it, what has Roy Jones done in the past few years. That should warrant me giving Joe Calzaghe alot of praise for beating RJJ ?

Forgetting past achievements because thats nothing to do with it, were talking the last few years. After the brutal loss to Glen Johnson, what performance from RJJ. Or what good name has RJJ beat that warranted him deserving a shot against Joe Calzaghe. Or warrants me giving Joe Calzaghe credit for beating RJJ, based on the last few years ?

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Blimey, i think you've confused yourself.

Lets make it simple..

Did you pick Roy or Joe to win this fight?

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I was rooting for RJJ but i thought Joe Calzaghe would win the fight, hence why i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite.

And answer my question above this is the 5th time you have avoided the question. It sounds like you have no real legit arguement, why i should praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ.

You know how every boxer says "that wasnt me" after a loss? That wasnt RJJ, it was his twin slower brother.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

You know how every boxer says "that wasnt me" after a loss? That wasnt RJJ, it was his twin slower brother.

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Your damn right i watched a prime RJJ yesterday, it looked like a completely different fighter.

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ICB

Uhh have you not read what i said ? i said i was rooting for RJJ but i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite, just like when i rooted for MAB against Manny Pacquiao i had Manny Pacquiao as the favorite.

Rooting for a fighter because there one of your favorites, then saying you have the other fighter as the favorite, is hardly picking RJJ is it ?

And stop avoiding the question this is 4 times now you have avoided it, what has Roy Jones done in the past few years. That should warrant me giving Joe Calzaghe alot of praise for beating RJJ ?

Forgetting past achievements because thats nothing to do with it, were talking the last few years. After the brutal loss to Glen Johnson, what performance from RJJ. Or what good name has RJJ beat that warranted him deserving a shot against Joe Calzaghe. Or warrants me giving Joe Calzaghe credit for beating RJJ, based on the last few years ?

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Blimey, i think you've confused yourself.

Lets make it simple..

Did you pick Roy or Joe to win this fight?

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I was rooting for RJJ but i thought Joe Calzaghe would win the fight, hence why i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite.

And answer my question above this is the 5th time you have avoided the question. It sounds like you have no real legit arguement, why i should praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ.

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I'm not avoiding any question. If you knew Calzaghe would win and it was such a shit match then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

Only a moronic hypocrite would pick a "shot" Roy to beat Calzaghe then say Calzaghe's win means nothing because Roy was SHOT!!! Get it?

This obviously doesn't apply to you as you've said you knew Roy was "shot."

But why are you currently called leftylee number 1 groupie ;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Blimey, i think you've confused yourself.

Lets make it simple..

Did you pick Roy or Joe to win this fight?

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I was rooting for RJJ but i thought Joe Calzaghe would win the fight, hence why i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite.

And answer my question above this is the 5th time you have avoided the question. It sounds like you have no real legit arguement, why i should praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ.

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I'm not avoiding any question. If you knew Calzaghe would win and it was such a shit match then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

Only a moronic hypocrite would pick a "shot" Roy to beat Calzaghe then say Calzaghe's win means nothing because Roy was SHOT!!! Get it?

This obviously doesn't apply to you as you've said you knew Roy was "shot."

But why are you currently called leftylee number 1 groupie ;D

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Yes i did know RJJ was shot and heres the proof.

"RJJ isn't even in the top 20 P4P his last good performance was against John Ruiz back in 2003. And his last stoppage win was against Clinton woods in 2002. And everyone was saying RJJ should retire, so why now should Joe Calzaghe get credit for beating a fighter.

Who in his comeback fights lost 4 rounds to a blown up Welterweight Felix Trinidad who hadn't fought since 2005, also scrapped through a decision win over the mediocre Anthony Hanshaw ? answer me that."

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...se-haters.html

I basically said what i have said in this thread, and yet again how many times do i have to ask you this before i get an answer ? you praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ, yet you can't give me any legit reasons why ? and you can't give me any legit reasons why RJJ deserved the fight ?

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

This was a Tyson-Holmes type situation, and I agree that this wasnt a career defining win. A good win but not great. If it was a decade ago it would have been a great win.

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Some would argue that Larry Holmes WAS Tyson's biggest win.

Apart from the light heavyweight Michael Spinks who did he beat who was better than even an old and past it Larry Holmes?

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

I was rooting for RJJ but i thought Joe Calzaghe would win the fight, hence why i had Joe Calzaghe as the favorite.

And answer my question above this is the 5th time you have avoided the question. It sounds like you have no real legit arguement, why i should praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ.

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I'm not avoiding any question. If you knew Calzaghe would win and it was such a shit match then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

Only a moronic hypocrite would pick a "shot" Roy to beat Calzaghe then say Calzaghe's win means nothing because Roy was SHOT!!! Get it?

This obviously doesn't apply to you as you've said you knew Roy was "shot."

But why are you currently called leftylee number 1 groupie ;D

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Yes i did know RJJ was shot and heres the proof.

"RJJ isn't even in the top 20 P4P his last good performance was against John Ruiz back in 2003. And his last stoppage win was against Clinton woods in 2002. And everyone was saying RJJ should retire, so why now should Joe Calzaghe get credit for beating a fighter.

Who in his comeback fights lost 4 rounds to a blown up Welterweight Felix Trinidad who hadn't fought since 2005, also scrapped through a decision win over the mediocre Anthony Hanshaw ? answer me that."

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...se-haters.html

I basically said what i have in this thread, and yet again how many times do i have to ask you this before i get an answer ? you praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ, yet you can't give me any legit reasons why ? and you can't give me any legit reasons why RJJ deserved the fight ?

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I just answered your question. What's your problem man?

If you thought Roy was "shot" then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

When have I praised Calzaghe for beating Roy? I knew Calzaghe would thrash him.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I'm not avoiding any question. If you knew Calzaghe would win and it was such a shit match then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

Only a moronic hypocrite would pick a "shot" Roy to beat Calzaghe then say Calzaghe's win means nothing because Roy was SHOT!!! Get it?

This obviously doesn't apply to you as you've said you knew Roy was "shot."

But why are you currently called leftylee number 1 groupie ;D

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Yes i did know RJJ was shot and heres the proof.

"RJJ isn't even in the top 20 P4P his last good performance was against John Ruiz back in 2003. And his last stoppage win was against Clinton woods in 2002. And everyone was saying RJJ should retire, so why now should Joe Calzaghe get credit for beating a fighter.

Who in his comeback fights lost 4 rounds to a blown up Welterweight Felix Trinidad who hadn't fought since 2005, also scrapped through a decision win over the mediocre Anthony Hanshaw ? answer me that."

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...se-haters.html

I basically said what i have in this thread, and yet again how many times do i have to ask you this before i get an answer ? you praise Joe Calzaghe for beating RJJ, yet you can't give me any legit reasons why ? and you can't give me any legit reasons why RJJ deserved the fight ?

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I just answered your question. What's your problem man?

If you thought Roy was "shot" then I don't expect you to praise Calzaghe.

When have I praised Calzaghe for beating Roy? I knew Calzaghe would thrash him.

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Your comment earlier on.

"Calzaghe deserves credit"

You keep skirting over the issue and so do many Joe Calzaghe fans. Im not having a pop at you or any Joe Calzaghe fans, its just i've see many people saying Joe Calzaghe deserves credit. I ask them why should i give him any real credit ? i listed my reasons above why i don't.

Calzaghe won and won big , but even Calzaghe himself knew Jones was shot , i mean he had been KOED twice before , yes any win is a win , but anyone who thinks this has an more relevance than say , Hector Comacho KOING Ray Leonard ,is wrong.
I mean his result wasnt even as convincing as Tarver or Johnson .

Credit for winning yes ,
Jones shot yes.