He beats floyd after floyd beats jmm, and pac beats mosley at 147 for the title?
Please discuss.
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He beats floyd after floyd beats jmm, and pac beats mosley at 147 for the title?
Please discuss.
Top 5? Top 10 at the minimum. I'd have him top 5.
where would Ivan Calderon be on atg list IF he jumped up to Heavyweight and took a decision against Valuev?
If's don't really mean shit until it happens
honestly we should be judging where he sould be by what he's actually done, and a loss to Mayweather, Cotto, or Mosley wouldn't diminish that one bit, i have Manny ranked in my top 25 ATG list, and anyone who says that's an injust position, (regarding that he should be ranked higher) just look at the competition that he's faced, compared to the likes of Ali, Robinson, Chavez, Hagler, etc. and considering how many GREAT fighters there are, 25 is nothing but a compliment, and speaks volumes of what he's done
It all depends on what happens between now and then. If Mosley fights before then and looks old going into the fight, how Mayweather looks vs. Marquez, the weights the fights happen at, and if Manny won the nature of the fights. Too many variables to say, but if he did fight them and win, it would put him very high on the list given his accomplishments already and beating any version of Floyd or Mosley is a big win. He could easily be top 10 of all time if he accomplished this.
i was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
good post guys. It would be hard to squeez him in top 5 but top 10 can work.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
how is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Raini was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Top 50 easily
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
around top 20-10
PAC the only boxer to capture 4 lineal titles at 140, 130, 126 and 112... He's also the 2nd boxer so far to capture titles in 6 divisions at 140, 135, 130, 126, 122 and 112... PAC is the only boxer right now having a good chance to attain a title in 7th weight division if he will go that route...
With the above credentials, PAC a Top 5 ATG or Top 10 easily...
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DLH only the third to win in 5 divisions and FIRST in 6, has a better resume IMO and still doesn't make it in top 20, you can easily take apart Manny's accomplishments an see they don't measure up to other great fighters from the past, who on top of what they had to deal with IN the ring, also had a lot more shit like racism and segregation happening out the ring, yet managed to do great thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
PAC the only 4-time lineal champ, beating the top man in a division to become the man... I think that speaks a lot about PAC's legacy... It's very difficult to achieve 4 lineal titles...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesDLH only the third to win in 5 divisions and FIRST in 6, has a better resume IMO and still doesn't make it in top 20, you can easily take apart Manny's accomplishments an see they don't measure up to other great fighters from the past, who on top of what they had to deal with IN the ring, also had a lot more shit like racism and segregation happening out the ring, yet managed to do great thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
PAC's 4 lineal titles:
1. Beat Hatton at 140 via KO2
2. Beat JMM at 130 via SD12
3. Beat Barrera at 126 via KO11
4. Beat Sasakul at 112 via KO8
Beating the man in a division via KO's.... That's impressive...
just cause you repeat it doesn't make it any more impressive, the JMM win, many will disregard it seeing how the vast majority see JMM as the winner, bringing it down to 3, something JMM already has done, hold 3 lineal titles, 126,130,135, back to back might i add, and never truly losing any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerPAC the only 4-time lineal champ, beating the top man in a division to become the man... I think that speaks a lot about PAC's legacy... It's very difficult to achieve 4 lineal titles...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesDLH only the third to win in 5 divisions and FIRST in 6, has a better resume IMO and still doesn't make it in top 20, you can easily take apart Manny's accomplishments an see they don't measure up to other great fighters from the past, who on top of what they had to deal with IN the ring, also had a lot more shit like racism and segregation happening out the ring, yet managed to do great thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
PAC's 4 lineal titles:
1. Beat Hatton at 140 via KO2
2. Beat JMM at 130 via SD12
3. Beat Barrera at 126 via KO11
4. Beat Sasakul at 112 via KO8
Beating the man in a division via KO's.... That's impressive...
There goes your true color Mr. Erik... Aha ha ha ha ah ah ha :lolhaha: JMM holding a lineal title at 126?? :confused: When was that?? JMM even lost to Chris John at 126... Where's your vaunted boxing knowledge Mr. Erik?? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesjust cause you repeat it doesn't make it any more impressive, the JMM win, many will disregard it seeing how the vast majority see JMM as the winner, bringing it down to 3, something JMM already has done, hold 3 lineal titles, 126,130,135, back to back might i add, and never truly losing any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerPAC the only 4-time lineal champ, beating the top man in a division to become the man... I think that speaks a lot about PAC's legacy... It's very difficult to achieve 4 lineal titles...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
PAC's 4 lineal titles:
1. Beat Hatton at 140 via KO2
2. Beat JMM at 130 via SD12
3. Beat Barrera at 126 via KO11
4. Beat Sasakul at 112 via KO8
Beating the man in a division via KO's.... That's impressive...
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Marquez was considered the MAN to beat at 126, this happened after Manny lost his socks before getting his ass beat by Marquez, and then ran like a bitch to 130 and refused a rematch, Morales was already at 130 when Manny became a known name at 126, and you're really questioning anyone BOXING knowledge? when the only thing you ever really ramble on about are gay little facts about Pacquiao's personal life, like what his favorite color undies are, you're really pathetic buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerThere goes your true color Mr. Erik... Aha ha ha ha ah ah ha :lolhaha: JMM holding a lineal title at 126?? :confused: When was that?? JMM even lost to Chris John at 126... Where's your vaunted boxing knowledge Mr. Erik?? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesjust cause you repeat it doesn't make it any more impressive, the JMM win, many will disregard it seeing how the vast majority see JMM as the winner, bringing it down to 3, something JMM already has done, hold 3 lineal titles, 126,130,135, back to back might i add, and never truly losing any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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You're more laughable Mr. Erik coz you are making your own fantasy boxing record book :lolhaha: Pity yourself Mr. Erik, if you want not to be laugh at, please refer your facts from the record books...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMarquez was considered the MAN to beat at 126, this happened after Manny lost his socks before getting his ass beat by Marquez, and then ran like a bitch to 130 and refused a rematch, Morales was already at 130 when Manny became a known name at 126, and you're really questioning anyone BOXING knowledge? when the only thing you ever really ramble on about are gay little facts about Pacquiao's personal life, like what his favorite color undies are, you're really pathetic buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerThere goes your true color Mr. Erik... Aha ha ha ha ah ah ha :lolhaha: JMM holding a lineal title at 126?? :confused: When was that?? JMM even lost to Chris John at 126... Where's your vaunted boxing knowledge Mr. Erik?? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
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JMM the man to beat at 126?? :lolhaha: fighting the likes of Salido, Polo and then lost to Chris John at 126... You're joking Mr. Erik...
PAC is the last man at 126 knocking out the previous man Barrera in 11 one sided rounds... That's the fact...
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amazing, you don't even know your Manny facts, if anything it was 10 one sided rounds, cause Pacquiao was dropped on his ass in the first ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerYou're more laughable Mr. Erik coz you are making your own fantasy boxing record book :lolhaha: Pity yourself Mr. Erik, if you want not to be laugh at, please refer your facts from the record books...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMarquez was considered the MAN to beat at 126, this happened after Manny lost his socks before getting his ass beat by Marquez, and then ran like a bitch to 130 and refused a rematch, Morales was already at 130 when Manny became a known name at 126, and you're really questioning anyone BOXING knowledge? when the only thing you ever really ramble on about are gay little facts about Pacquiao's personal life, like what his favorite color undies are, you're really pathetic buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
JMM the man to beat at 126?? :lolhaha: fighting the likes of Salido, Polo and then lost to Chris John at 126... You're joking Mr. Erik...
PAC is the last man at 126 knocking out the previous man Barrera in 11 one sided rounds... That's the fact...
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get a hobby Mrs.Pacquiao AKA Saddoboxer, cause your obsession is getting even more unhealthy than before
Manny's gonna have to be careful, your ass might turn out to be like the bitch in that movie Obsessed :-X
Repeating it doesn't make it less impressive either. It just makes it redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesjust cause you repeat it doesn't make it any more impressive, the JMM win, many will disregard it seeing how the vast majority see JMM as the winner, bringing it down to 3, something JMM already has done, hold 3 lineal titles, 126,130,135, back to back might i add, and never truly losing any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerPAC the only 4-time lineal champ, beating the top man in a division to become the man... I think that speaks a lot about PAC's legacy... It's very difficult to achieve 4 lineal titles...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
PAC's 4 lineal titles:
1. Beat Hatton at 140 via KO2
2. Beat JMM at 130 via SD12
3. Beat Barrera at 126 via KO11
4. Beat Sasakul at 112 via KO8
Beating the man in a division via KO's.... That's impressive...
I think top 25 is a fair assessment, although in another 10 years we'll have hindsite. I'd say he accomplishes wins over Mosley, Mayeather and JMM he's on a few top 10's, I think Mayweather has to stay undefeated when he loses to and he wins convincinly over JMM otherwise he gets labeled as a old man beater. Sh*t he gets labeled as that now. A win over Cotto has more legacy value than a win over JMM at this point in his career.
Was it not Marquez hanging with and many would say defeating Your Pacquiao just prior to his fights with Salido and Polo.....you remember "the draw" thus going even up ??? Just a little too much reliance put into trinket collection rather than beating the very best in the respected weight divisions,that goes for all Fighters Imo.......It was john picking up JMMs WBA strap after he was stripped.That last descision between Pac and JMM will be argued for endless moons,even the beloved Roach said it could have gone either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerYou're more laughable Mr. Erik coz you are making your own fantasy boxing record book :lolhaha: Pity yourself Mr. Erik, if you want not to be laugh at, please refer your facts from the record books...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMarquez was considered the MAN to beat at 126, this happened after Manny lost his socks before getting his ass beat by Marquez, and then ran like a bitch to 130 and refused a rematch, Morales was already at 130 when Manny became a known name at 126, and you're really questioning anyone BOXING knowledge? when the only thing you ever really ramble on about are gay little facts about Pacquiao's personal life, like what his favorite color undies are, you're really pathetic buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
JMM the man to beat at 126?? :lolhaha: fighting the likes of Salido, Polo and then lost to Chris John at 126... You're joking Mr. Erik...
PAC is the last man at 126 knocking out the previous man Barrera in 11 one sided rounds... That's the fact...
.
exactly what im saying, but i repeat if you don't have Manny as #1 P4P ATG fighter, they tend to get pissyQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyRepeating it doesn't make it less impressive either. It just makes it redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesjust cause you repeat it doesn't make it any more impressive, the JMM win, many will disregard it seeing how the vast majority see JMM as the winner, bringing it down to 3, something JMM already has done, hold 3 lineal titles, 126,130,135, back to back might i add, and never truly losing any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
I think top 25 is a fair assessment, although in another 10 years we'll have hindsite. I'd say he accomplishes wins over Mosley, Mayeather and JMM he's on a few top 10's, I think Mayweather has to stay undefeated when he loses to and he wins convincinly over JMM otherwise he gets labeled as a old man beater. Sh*t he gets labeled as that now. A win over Cotto has more legacy value than a win over JMM at this point in his career.
Dude, PAC's other 3 lineal titles were clear claims since PAC KO'ed the man to become the man... The JMM fights were close, get over it or else people will laugh at you if you used it as a fact... Facts were compiled in official record books, understand??Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliWas it not Marquez hanging with and many would say defeating Your Pacquiao just prior to his fights with Salido and Polo.....you remember "the draw" thus going even up ??? Just a little too much reliance put into trinket collection rather than beating the very best in the respected weight divisions,that goes for all Fighters Imo.......It was john picking up JMMs WBA strap after he was stripped.That last descision between Pac and JMM will be argued for endless moons,even the beloved Roach said it could have gone either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerYou're more laughable Mr. Erik coz you are making your own fantasy boxing record book :lolhaha: Pity yourself Mr. Erik, if you want not to be laugh at, please refer your facts from the record books...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
JMM the man to beat at 126?? :lolhaha: fighting the likes of Salido, Polo and then lost to Chris John at 126... You're joking Mr. Erik...
PAC is the last man at 126 knocking out the previous man Barrera in 11 one sided rounds... That's the fact...
.
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Dude you're twisting the facts... What we claimed is PAC currently #1 P4P (no arguments in this) and maybe Top 30 ATG (needs lot of discussion)... Don't twist our claims Dude...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly what im saying, but i repeat if you don't have Manny as #1 P4P ATG fighter, they tend to get pissyQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyRepeating it doesn't make it less impressive either. It just makes it redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
I think top 25 is a fair assessment, although in another 10 years we'll have hindsite. I'd say he accomplishes wins over Mosley, Mayeather and JMM he's on a few top 10's, I think Mayweather has to stay undefeated when he loses to and he wins convincinly over JMM otherwise he gets labeled as a old man beater. Sh*t he gets labeled as that now. A win over Cotto has more legacy value than a win over JMM at this point in his career.
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Dude...your seriously telling me that 'the man' at light was trinket warmer David Diaz?I know he ko'd Santa-Cruz with a lucky brick...and Santa-Cruz 'lost' to The man Casamayor (who JMM Ko'd) but Diaz was not the best by any means.But yeah,the record books say Casa beat Santa-Cruz ,so facts are facts right :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDude, PAC's other 3 lineal titles were clear claims since PAC KO'ed the man to become the man... The JMM fights were close, get over it or else people will laugh at you if you used it as a fact... Facts were compiled in official record books, understand??Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliWas it not Marquez hanging with and many would say defeating Your Pacquiao just prior to his fights with Salido and Polo.....you remember "the draw" thus going even up ??? Just a little too much reliance put into trinket collection rather than beating the very best in the respected weight divisions,that goes for all Fighters Imo.......It was john picking up JMMs WBA strap after he was stripped.That last descision between Pac and JMM will be argued for endless moons,even the beloved Roach said it could have gone either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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I very much am over it as far a JMM and Pacquiao....but dont believe everything you read on Box-rec brutha,I just dont see anyone else constantly posting up Marquez/Manny fight pics,name dropping and rehashing history with your predictability though :cwm13:
Come'on lil' Brother... I only posted that PAC deserves high ATG ranking coz he's the only boxer achieving 4 lineal titles... then someone drag that old PAC-JMM-who-wins issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliDude...your seriously telling me that 'the man' at light was trinket warmer David Diaz?I know he ko'd Santa-Cruz with a lucky brick...and Santa-Cruz 'lost' to The man Casamayor (who JMM Ko'd) but Diaz was not the best by any means.But yeah,the record books say Casa beat Santa-Cruz ,so facts are facts right :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDude, PAC's other 3 lineal titles were clear claims since PAC KO'ed the man to become the man... The JMM fights were close, get over it or else people will laugh at you if you used it as a fact... Facts were compiled in official record books, understand??Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
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I very much am over it as far a JMM and Pacquiao....but dont believe everything you read on Box-rec brutha,I just dont see anyone else constantly posting up Marquez/Manny fight pics,name dropping and rehashing history with your predictability though :cwm13:
And lil' brother, I think the Casa-Santa Cruz fiasco happened after David Diaz beat Santa Cruz so Diaz can't get credit out of it...;)
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you and plenty others Pacstraighleft being one of them, kept on insisting that Manny should be considered p4p #1 Greatest of all Time right after the Hatton fight, and if that's not a load of crap i don't know what isQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDude you're twisting the facts... What we claimed is PAC currently #1 P4P (no arguments in this) and maybe Top 30 ATG (needs lot of discussion)... Don't twist our claims Dude...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesexactly what im saying, but i repeat if you don't have Manny as #1 P4P ATG fighter, they tend to get pissyQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
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no he can't get any credit cause Diaz is a bum fighter who's 2 biggest wins are a lucky KO in a fight he was losing, and a gift decision against a shot fighter, easy as thatQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerCome'on lil' Brother... I only posted that PAC deserves high ATG ranking coz he's the only boxer achieving 4 lineal titles... then someone drag that old PAC-JMM-who-wins issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliDude...your seriously telling me that 'the man' at light was trinket warmer David Diaz?I know he ko'd Santa-Cruz with a lucky brick...and Santa-Cruz 'lost' to The man Casamayor (who JMM Ko'd) but Diaz was not the best by any means.But yeah,the record books say Casa beat Santa-Cruz ,so facts are facts right :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
I very much am over it as far a JMM and Pacquiao....but dont believe everything you read on Box-rec brutha,I just dont see anyone else constantly posting up Marquez/Manny fight pics,name dropping and rehashing history with your predictability though :cwm13:
And lil' brother, I think the Casa-Santa Cruz fiasco happened after David Diaz beat Santa Cruz so Diaz can't get credit out of it...;)
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Dude, I didn't claim PAC is the #1 GOAT after the Hatton fight... You can post here the link if I really did that... I also doubt Pacstraighleft would make such claim tho I'm not really aware of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou and plenty others Pacstraighleft being one of them, kept on insisting that Manny should be considered p4p #1 Greatest of all Time right after the Hatton fight, and if that's not a load of crap i don't know what isQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerDude you're twisting the facts... What we claimed is PAC currently #1 P4P (no arguments in this) and maybe Top 30 ATG (needs lot of discussion)... Don't twist our claims Dude...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
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You know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
he'll be top 20 but it'll never happen
Pac is top 5 right now so he would be fighting for top position if he beats Mayweather convincingly, and defeats Mosley and Cotto.:cool:
lmfao, yea in your eyes only :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYou know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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Why is that? got some research to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerTop 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYou know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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Waiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelWhy is that? got some research to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerTop 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
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:juggle:.....or ya could just tell us who stands higher now in those record books you like so much as greater than Pacquiao....you had already stated his 'credentials' earning him top 5/10 up to now:cwm13:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerWaiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelWhy is that? got some research to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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But yeah,ok,sure,that time line of yours & future fights should give you plenty of time to come up with something :work33: ;)
Yeah whatever:la:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerWaiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelWhy is that? got some research to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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:rolleyes: your just as bad as saddoboxer, can you two just get a room and fuck eachother in the ass!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshow is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Raini was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Bend over Mr. Erik... ;D (joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain:rolleyes: your just as bad as saddoboxer, can you two just get a room and fuck eachother in the ass!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshow is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
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PBF - Arguably the Greatest of his time
Mosley - a legit Welterweight title holder
The product will be
4 linear Titles ( Nobody has done this )
additional titles @122(IBF) 135(WBC) and @147(WBA) *all variety
that's a total of 7 titles in 7 weight divisions. Everybody should agree that that is a monstrous achievement.
TOP 4 only behind Robinson, Ali and Armstrong.
Well i for one have a hard time putting him near top 10 because to me there no way he ranks over Sugar Ray Leonard in my book at all. I mean saddoboxer you and i talk about this and not sure i agree with the Pac at 112 being lineal because i think Sugar Ray Leonard could of been at 168. So that make him have the same amount of lineal titles in my book. And look at the names Hearns Prime, Benitez Prime, Duran not sure on that, and then Hagler was not prime neither was Leonard and the lay off. I have Sugar Ray Leonard at 10 and there no way pac is above Leonard well i just cant put him above him maybe some other people can not me i just think that Leonard did more in his career.