where would pac be on atg list if....

[ElTerribleMorales]

Pac is top 5 right now so he would be fighting for top position if he beats Mayweather convincingly, and defeats Mosley and Cotto.

lmfao, yea in your eyes only

[XaduBoxer]

PAC the only boxer to capture 4 lineal titles at 140, 130, 126 and 112... He's also the 2nd boxer so far to capture titles in 6 divisions at 140, 135, 130, 126, 122 and 112... PAC is the only boxer right now having a good chance to attain a title in 7th weight division if he will go that route...

With the above credentials, PAC a Top 5 ATG or Top 10 easily...
.

You know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?

Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?
.

[Kel]

PAC the only boxer to capture 4 lineal titles at 140, 130, 126 and 112... He's also the 2nd boxer so far to capture titles in 6 divisions at 140, 135, 130, 126, 122 and 112... PAC is the only boxer right now having a good chance to attain a title in 7th weight division if he will go that route...

With the above credentials, PAC a Top 5 ATG or Top 10 easily...
.

You know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?

Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?
.

Why is that? got some research to do?

[XaduBoxer]

You know...who would you rank above him as all time great ?

Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?
.

Why is that? got some research to do?

Waiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?
.

[Spicoli]

Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?
.

Why is that? got some research to do?

Waiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?
.

.....or ya could just tell us who stands higher now in those record books you like so much as greater than Pacquiao....you had already stated his 'credentials' earning him top 5/10 up to now

But yeah,ok,sure,that time line of yours & future fights should give you plenty of time to come up with something

[Kel]

Top 5 or Top 10 easy granting PAC will defeat PBF and Mosley... If that happens, you will be the first one to get a peek on my ATG list, is that OK with you?
.

Why is that? got some research to do?

Waiting for PAC-PBF and PAC-Mosley to happen... OK?
.

Yeah whatever

[Julius Rain]

where would Ivan Calderon be on atg list IF he jumped up to Heavyweight and took a decision against Valuev?

If's don't really mean shit until it happens

honestly we should be judging where he sould be by what he's actually done, and a loss to Mayweather, Cotto, or Mosley wouldn't diminish that one bit, i have Manny ranked in my top 25 ATG list, and anyone who says that's an injust position, (regarding that he should be ranked higher) just look at the competition that he's faced, compared to the likes of Ali, Robinson, Chavez, Hagler, etc. and considering how many GREAT fighters there are, 25 is nothing but a compliment, and speaks volumes of what he's done

i was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.

how is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriously

your just as bad as saddoboxer, can you two just get a room and fuck eachother in the ass!

[XaduBoxer]

i was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.

how is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriously

your just as bad as saddoboxer, can you two just get a room and fuck eachother in the ass!

Bend over Mr. Erik... (joke)
.

[miron_lang]

PBF - Arguably the Greatest of his time

Mosley - a legit Welterweight title holder


The product will be


4 linear Titles ( Nobody has done this )
additional titles @122(IBF) 135(WBC) and @147(WBA) *all variety

that's a total of 7 titles in 7 weight divisions. Everybody should agree that that is a monstrous achievement.


TOP 4 only behind Robinson, Ali and Armstrong.

[Mr140]

Well i for one have a hard time putting him near top 10 because to me there no way he ranks over Sugar Ray Leonard in my book at all. I mean saddoboxer you and i talk about this and not sure i agree with the Pac at 112 being lineal because i think Sugar Ray Leonard could of been at 168. So that make him have the same amount of lineal titles in my book. And look at the names Hearns Prime, Benitez Prime, Duran not sure on that, and then Hagler was not prime neither was Leonard and the lay off. I have Sugar Ray Leonard at 10 and there no way pac is above Leonard well i just cant put him above him maybe some other people can not me i just think that Leonard did more in his career.

[XaduBoxer]

Well i for one have a hard time putting him near top 10 because to me there no way he ranks over Sugar Ray Leonard in my book at all. I mean saddoboxer you and i talk about this and not sure i agree with the Pac at 112 being lineal because i think Sugar Ray Leonard could of been at 168. So that make him have the same amount of lineal titles in my book. And look at the names Hearns Prime, Benitez Prime, Duran not sure on that, and then Hagler was not prime neither was Leonard and the lay off. I have Sugar Ray Leonard at 10 and there no way pac is above Leonard well i just cant put him above him maybe some other people can not me i just think that Leonard did more in his career.

Here's Sugar Ray's claim to lineal titles:

World Welterweight – TKO15 Wilfred Benitez: Following his debut into national consciousness as a Gold Medal member of the legendary 1976 U.S. Olympic team, Leonard (36-3-1, 25 KO) began a rapid rise through the Welterweight ranks. Turned pro in February 1977, he would ratchet 25 wins without a loss and challenging the undefeated WBC champion Benitez before his career was three years old. Over fifteen fast paced rounds, the two prodigious young talents would take turns making each other miss, Leonard doing a better job in the making his man pay department. A flash third round knockdown off a jab set the tone of the bout, Leonard always just a baby step ahead. In the fifteenth, an arguably debatable stoppage was called as Leonard teed off in the closing seconds, referee Carlos Padilla perhaps caught up in a still growing aura. After one defense against Dave Green, Leonard would split two memorable, for wildly different reasons better discussed elsewhere, fights with Roberto Duran to lose and regain his throne. And, beyond doubt, it was the true throne in the class. The lineage for both of Leonard’s Welterweight crowns was the same as the lineage discussed for Duran earlier in this series (though discussed slightly in error previously; the line traced to Curtis Cokes and not Virgil Akins). In 1982, he would remove any doubt to the strength of his claim by stopping undefeated WBA champion Thomas Hearns in a classic. Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

World Junior Middleweight – TKO9 Ayub Kalule: Between regaining and the cementing his second Welterweight claim, Leonard made a brief sojourn up the scale for a showdown with undefeated WBA Jr. Middleweight champion Ayub Kalule, then undefeated in 36 contests. It turned into a tougher fight than many expected with the tough Ugandan-by-way-of Denmark holding his own for awhile. Eventually, fighting often at close quarters, Leonard would prove too much for Kalule, breaking him down in the ninth round to force the stoppage. Again, while only holding a single belt, there was little to dispute about the lineage of the title. Kalule descended in a straight line to the late 1960s undisputed reign of Freddie Little and, when Leonard chose to vacate, the lineage would go hazy until at least late into the run of Terry Norris. Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

World Middleweight – SD12 Marvin Hagler: The debates continue, unabated, over twenty years later. Two of the judges at ringside (Lou Filipo and Dave Moretti) scored either way at a reasonable 115-113, or seven rounds to five. The third judge, Jo Jo Guerra, turned in a 118-110 (10-2) score for Leonard so absurd as to remain one of the great black marks in Boxing history. The fight demanded a third rational score; without one, it has been left to the fans to make their own and that’s probably the fun of this legendary fight. No matter which way anyone scored or scores it, the official result stands and no one can argue Marvin Hagler, one of the best Middleweights of all time at the end of over six years as champion, was anything but the one, true Middleweight champion on Earth even if he’d been, by fight time, stripped down to just his WBC belt. Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

WBC Super Middleweight/WBC Light Heavyweight – TKO9 Donny Lalonde: This is where the razzle-dazzle comes into play. Three days after Hearns snatched the WBO crown at 168 lbs. to mark his fifth divisional title, Leonard entered this odd affair on November 7, 1988 against WBC Light Heavyweight titlist Lalonde. Somehow, this was also made for the new WBC crown at 168 and given the payday at hand, Lalonde agreed to come in below 170 lbs. for the first time since 1986. After a strong start which included a knockdown, Lalonde faded as Leonard found a series of showstopping shots to down Lalonde in the ninth. Let’s be serious though. The lineage at 168, as previously discussed in looking at Roy Jones, belonged to Chong-Pal Park. One fight later, he would be worked over for a ‘draw’ even Leonard will admit these days was a loss in a unification tilt with Hearns. Furthermore, while not a bad fighter, Lalonde was at least a step down from fellow 175 lb. titlists Charles Williams (IBF) and Virgil Hill (WBA); probably more like two steps to be fair. Leonard won a pair of belts on this night. There is no need to make more it than that. Forecast: Hazy, real hazy, on both counts

Having never tried, Leonard fell short of being able to claim the four lineal World titles Pacquiao is training to make a run at, though Leonard would have to have been favored had he gone after Park rather than picking up a vacant strap versus Lalonde. Favored, of course, is not the same as winning an actual fight and so he falls short of that accomplishment.

[Mr140]

Well also guys to let you know Oscar and Pac are not the only ones that have belts in so many divsion Hearns also had the same amount. Also lets not for get that moving up in the lower weights is not like the higher. I mean people make a big deal about the weight Pac or Oscar went up but Jones and Evander did it in a even more exterme fashion. Jones begain at 154 and moved up to capture a belt at heavy weight.Evander started off at light heavy weight and fought guys that weight 240 to 250 and some times when in the ring weight 20 to 30 pounds less then the other fighter to me that is more impressive then Meayweather, Pac and Oscar moving up divisions.

[Mr140]

Ok but look the 168 there was not really a guy Leonard had as much claim to it as anyone else did i mean kinda up in the air to me anyhow. Think pac claim to the 112 title is about the same as what Leonards was to the 168 because neither was a ring champion at the time dude so up in air.

[Jody Lane]

where would Ivan Calderon be on atg list IF he jumped up to Heavyweight and took a decision against Valuev?

If's don't really mean shit until it happens

honestly we should be judging where he sould be by what he's actually done, and a loss to Mayweather, Cotto, or Mosley wouldn't diminish that one bit, i have Manny ranked in my top 25 ATG list, and anyone who says that's an injust position, (regarding that he should be ranked higher) just look at the competition that he's faced, compared to the likes of Ali, Robinson, Chavez, Hagler, etc. and considering how many GREAT fighters there are, 25 is nothing but a compliment, and speaks volumes of what he's done

i was hoping to get a calm discussiong going on amongst other curious boxing fans. obviously your a bit of an anti pac so please do not ruin this thread.

how is giving my honest opinion ruining the thread? and i'm not anti pac, just cause i don't think he's the greatest fighter to lace up gloves i'm labeled a hater, i have Manny in my top 25, my favorite fighter Morales isn't even in my top 25 ATG, that's gotta say something, you Paclovers need to come to grips with reality, he's a great fighter, he's NOT the greatest boxer of all time, just cause someone says so doesn't mean they hate the dude, get over yourself seriously

Hey El, don't worry about being labelled a hater. I have been called that before, probably because I think Joy Jones Jr is a self righteous cocky ass little overrated bitch. But that doesn't mean I hate him. Wonder where those rumors come from about my attitude

[SweetPea]

Beating Floyd and Mosley would gain Manny a lot of respect, but I don't think you can consider him an all-time PFP great until he stops ducking Mighty Mike Arnaoutis.