I wish Jack Johnson was alive

Just watched Klit V Chagaev. Man Klit had his hands way out front the whole fight, his feet were about 2 meters apart the whole fight. He was basically doing the absolute least he had to do each round to win the fight. He should have won the fight by round 4 or 5 but that shit with holding the left out front with his legs so far apart shows he was just in it for the W. We need fighters like Jack Johnson who fight to see who is the toughest guy and who will fight anyone. That's what the H/W division needs.

Completely agree.. The Heavyweight division just doesn't have the passion, thirst, personality, meanness & excitement that pretty much every single division in boxing has at least some of.. It really is a dieing division and will take some really special athletes to bring some of the old time glory back to it... It's sad because throughout the non-boxing community, it's the main division that draws the viewers and new fans,,, when it is going good that is... When the casual fan is looking to boxing with the understanding that the Heavyweight division is the pinacle of the sport,,, then currently the whole sport is being let down by this division.. Which is certainly not how it has been in the past...

There was an old Jack Johnson fight on t.v. last night.. He was a freak for his time. A great athlete and drew the crowds like nothing else..

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Just watched Klit V Chagaev. Man Klit had his hands way out front the whole fight, his feet were about 2 meters apart the whole fight. He was basically doing the absolute least he had to do each round to win the fight. He should have won the fight by round 4 or 5 but that shit with holding the left out front with his legs so far apart shows he was just in it for the W. We need fighters like Jack Johnson who fight to see who is the toughest guy and who will fight anyone. That's what the H/W division needs.

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Really??? So Jack Johnson was NEVER in it just for the W??? 72 wins 39 KO's....if anyone phoned it in or wanted to punish someone for an entire fight it was Jack Johnson, he got together with his opponents and planned outcomes for fights.

He went 20 rounds with Frank Moran!


Jack Johnson drew crowds because a lot of white people wanted to see him get beaten

Why would wish a man to wake up in a coffin six feet under ground?


:gnight23:

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Just watched Klit V Chagaev. Man Klit had his hands way out front the whole fight, his feet were about 2 meters apart the whole fight. He was basically doing the absolute least he had to do each round to win the fight. He should have won the fight by round 4 or 5 but that shit with holding the left out front with his legs so far apart shows he was just in it for the W. We need fighters like Jack Johnson who fight to see who is the toughest guy and who will fight anyone. That's what the H/W division needs.

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That's Wlad for you mate.

Wlad is king of the garbage pile.

That is all;)

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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David Haye is exciting and electric, Wlad is mundane and dogmatic.

If Haye was outgunning his man by round 2 you best believe he wouldnt throw 1900 jabs sniffing his way thu 6 rounds

I wish Yuri Foreman was a Heavyweight

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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Why oh why do you always bring Haye up? I'm sick to the back teeth of arguing about a fight that is on and off and then swapping brothers and then changing again. Jack Johnson being more exciting than Wlad is what this thread is about nothing to do with David Haye. If you don't agree then I for one would love to hear your reasons but WTF has it got to do with Haye?

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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Why oh why do you always bring Haye up? I'm sick to the back teeth of arguing about a fight that is on and off and then swapping brothers and then changing again. Jack Johnson being more exciting than Wlad is what this thread is about nothing to do with David Haye. If you don't agree then I for one would love to hear your reasons but WTF has it got to do with Haye?

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Lyle is just insecure, thats all;)

People keep slagging off on Wladimir, what does the guy have to do to get some damn credit??? I'm not going to lay back and accept this bullcrap, you guys look at Jack Johnson and say "he's exciting", Mike Tyson said he fell asleep watching Jack Johnson fights.

Wladimir wins and wins by KO that is all

If you guys like Jack Johnson you should like Wladimir

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Originally Posted by Lyle

People keep slagging off on Wladimir, what does the guy have to do to get some damn credit??? I'm not going to lay back and accept this bullcrap, you guys look at Jack Johnson and say "he's exciting", Mike Tyson said he fell asleep watching Jack Johnson fights.

Wladimir wins and wins by KO that is all

If you guys like Jack Johnson you should like Wladimir

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Probably that black and white video that did that. Also Lyle please stop mentioning Haye. At this rate we're gonna have to create you a David Haye board on the forum. Wlad isn't yet comparable with Jack Johnson, who is a true ATG and a far more exciting fighter, however, he doesn't get the credit he deserves, he is an excellent fighter, and deserves more credit than he gets even if he doesn't always use his gifts in the way he should

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Originally Posted by Lyle

People keep slagging off on Wladimir, what does the guy have to do to get some damn credit??? I'm not going to lay back and accept this bullcrap, you guys look at Jack Johnson and say "he's exciting", Mike Tyson said he fell asleep watching Jack Johnson fights.

Wladimir wins and wins by KO that is all

If you guys like Jack Johnson you should like Wladimir

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To be fair to Johnson though the footage of him is poor, Wlad doesn't have that excuse. To be honest I quite like Wlad, his boxing fundamentals are all there and if he had his brothers chin and confidence he would be one hell of a fighter. But there lies the problem, he is an intelligent man so he thinks "why risk getting KO'd when I can use my boxing brain and size and 1-2 this guy all night and I either win by an eventual KO or a certain decision". Problem is he is in the entertainment business and not too many find him entertaining.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Just watched Klit V Chagaev. Man Klit had his hands way out front the whole fight, his feet were about 2 meters apart the whole fight. He was basically doing the absolute least he had to do each round to win the fight. He should have won the fight by round 4 or 5 but that shit with holding the left out front with his legs so far apart shows he was just in it for the W. We need fighters like Jack Johnson who fight to see who is the toughest guy and who will fight anyone. That's what the H/W division needs.

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Jack Johnson? ROTFLMAO! Either of the Klitchskos would have pounded Johnson into a bloody pile.

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Originally Posted by Slowmotion426

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Just watched Klit V Chagaev. Man Klit had his hands way out front the whole fight, his feet were about 2 meters apart the whole fight. He was basically doing the absolute least he had to do each round to win the fight. He should have won the fight by round 4 or 5 but that shit with holding the left out front with his legs so far apart shows he was just in it for the W. We need fighters like Jack Johnson who fight to see who is the toughest guy and who will fight anyone. That's what the H/W division needs.

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Jack Johnson? ROTFLMAO! Either of the Klitchskos would have pounded Johnson into a bloody pile.

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Maybe but the sport should have progressed somewhat in 100 years.

Oh yes blame it on the black and white video....that is lame as hell. Joe Louis' and Rocky Marciano's and Sonny Liston's fights were in black and white and Tyson said nothing of those.

Was Jack Johnson more exciting than Wladimir when he went 20 rounds without getting a KO??? He was big and strong and everything, but 72 wins 39 KO's in a time of 15-20 round fights. He (much like Wladimir) liked to dominate his opponents and very seldom he leveled them with 1 big punch (Wlad has done the same and recently to Ray Austin) and yet here we are singing the praises of Jack Johnson and complaining about Wladimir, instead of respecting what Wlad does in the ring.

Did I mention Haye in my last post??? No and the only reason I mention him right now is to point out to you that I didn't mention him in the previous post. You bringing him up again might just incite another rant

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Oh yes blame it on the black and white video....that is lame as hell. Joe Louis' and Rocky Marciano's and Sonny Liston's fights were in black and white and Tyson said nothing of those.

Was Jack Johnson more exciting than Wladimir when he went 20 rounds without getting a KO??? He was big and strong and everything, but 72 wins 39 KO's in a time of 15-20 round fights. He (much like Wladimir) liked to dominate his opponents and very seldom he leveled them with 1 big punch (Wlad has done the same and recently to Ray Austin) and yet here we are singing the praises of Jack Johnson and complaining about Wladimir, instead of respecting what Wlad does in the ring.

Did I mention Haye in my last post??? No and the only reason I mention him right now is to point out to you that I didn't mention him in the previous post. You bringing him up again might just incite another rant

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Get that chip off your shoulder about Wlad, and earlier you mentioned Haye completely unneccesarily, and you've done it a number of times, it's getting irritating, I'm sure you did it in the off-topic section the other day.

The video from Johnson's time was of far poorer quality than that of Marciano and Louis where the fighters were more clear to see. I have no problem with Wlad and think he's an excellent fighter but with all the advantages he enjoys over opponents (size, athleticism, strength, technique and often speed) it would be nice to see him do just a little bit more sometimes.

We're talking about heavyweights correct? Then why would any comment about David Haye be out of bounds or off topic?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

We're talking about heavyweights correct? Then why would any comment about David Haye be out of bounds or off topic?

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Because you're relentlessly mentioning him. I meant you mentioned him in the off-topic section, I'll admit some of the hype he's been getting has been ridiculous, but just don't feed into it unless you're that desperate to talk about him

But this isn't the Off Topic forum and this thread IS about heavyweight ergo wouldn't this be the place for me to post about David Haye? I mean it would be in a place where you could avoid reading about him and all.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

We're talking about heavyweights correct? Then why would any comment about David Haye be out of bounds or off topic?

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Because you're relentlessly mentioning him. I meant you mentioned him in the off-topic section, I'll admit some of the hype he's been getting has been ridiculous, but just don't feed into it unless you're that desperate to talk about him

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He has a point Lyle. You seem obsessed by David Haye and his downfall, If you don't like the guy thats fair enough, I don't particuarly like Mike Tyson but I don't bring him up every other post I make and I respect that the guy was a professional athlete just like Haye and Wlad.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

But this isn't the Off Topic forum and this thread IS about heavyweight ergo wouldn't this be the place for me to post about David Haye? I mean it would be in a place where you could avoid reading about him and all.

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But the thing is, and I know you'll agree with this, but David Haye IS NOT the HW division. It seems we can't discuss HWs without Haye getting mentioned, often by you, and as he hasn't done enough in the division, why do we have to mention him every time any HWs get mentioned. Wlad has earnt the right to at least be discussed in context with great HWs of the past, Haye hasn't so let's leave him out of discussions about Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

But this isn't the Off Topic forum and this thread IS about heavyweight ergo wouldn't this be the place for me to post about David Haye? I mean it would be in a place where you could avoid reading about him and all.

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But the thing is, and I know you'll agree with this, but David Haye IS NOT the HW division. It seems we can't discuss HWs without Haye getting mentioned, often by you, and as he hasn't done enough in the division, why do we have to mention him every time any HWs get mentioned. Wlad has earnt the right to at least be discussed in context with great HWs of the past, Haye hasn't so let's leave him out of discussions about Jack Johnson

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Spot on my friend. Until Haye proves his greatness by KOing Wlad lets leave him out of Jack Johnsons thread and just keep with the topic ;D

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

But the thing is, and I know you'll agree with this, but David Haye IS NOT the HW division. It seems we can't discuss HWs without Haye getting mentioned, often by you, and as he hasn't done enough in the division, why do we have to mention him every time any HWs get mentioned. Wlad has earnt the right to at least be discussed in context with great HWs of the past, Haye hasn't so let's leave him out of discussions about Jack Johnson

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The only reason you guys want to compare Wlad with the greats is to bitch and moan about him so if you're thinking that reading about David Haye and how much I hate him is annoying and you want me to lay off, then I'd oblige you if the people who dislike Wladimir would stop knocking him all the time.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

But the thing is, and I know you'll agree with this, but David Haye IS NOT the HW division. It seems we can't discuss HWs without Haye getting mentioned, often by you, and as he hasn't done enough in the division, why do we have to mention him every time any HWs get mentioned. Wlad has earnt the right to at least be discussed in context with great HWs of the past, Haye hasn't so let's leave him out of discussions about Jack Johnson

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The only reason you guys want to compare Wlad with the greats is to bitch and moan about him so if you're thinking that reading about David Haye and how much I hate him is annoying and you want me to lay off, then I'd oblige you if the people who dislike Wladimir would stop knocking him all the time.

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I personally don't want to knock Wlad but I can see why people do. He is the man at HW and he has recent greats such as Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson to follow and all three of them brought excitement that Wlad just doesn't and the fact he is around in such a poor era of HW's doesn't help because there is only really Vitali who "most" people think can beat him and they are never going to fight for obvious reasons. Wlad is a victim of this era too.

Jack Johnson really ??? I mean who was the toughest guy he fought? Stanley Ketchel a middleweight who knocked him down. Yeah he did come back and imbed two of Ketchel's teeth in his right glove. That was the best opposition he fought nothing but old retired heavyweight fighter's. As for Wlad holding his hands out in front of him. Who the hell do you think came up with that none other than Jack Johnson. People a while ago recorded in their notes he actually fought like a cat pawing and making fun of his oppenent's by mauling them around the ring,and lacing them in their eyes. My god man have you ever wanted to see fighter's fighting in 112 degree weather for 23 rounds throwing basically 5 or 6 punches a round. It would be an all day event not to mention boring as shit unless you were there. Please I will take Wlad manhandling his oppent's for less than twelve rounds. Christ I would love to watch Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis but fucking Jack Johnson???

Right about now I'd be happy to have a Tex Cobb or Jerry Quarry;D

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Right about now I'd be happy to have a Tex Cobb or Jerry Quarry;D

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IMO Quarry is the best man never to have held the HW title.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

and you want me to lay off, then I'd oblige you if the people who dislike Wladimir would stop knocking him all the time.

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You got as much of a chance as Wlad does of taking a right hand, then to have me stop knocking him ;D

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Right about now I'd be happy to have a Tex Cobb or Jerry Quarry;D

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IMO Quarry is the best man never to have held the HW title.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

People keep slagging off on Wladimir, what does the guy have to do to get some damn credit??? I'm not going to lay back and accept this bullcrap, you guys look at Jack Johnson and say "he's exciting", Mike Tyson said he fell asleep watching Jack Johnson fights.

Wladimir wins and wins by KO that is all

If you guys like Jack Johnson you should like Wladimir

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Yeah, Johnson was more of a slick defensive fighter, then a knockout artist.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

But the thing is, and I know you'll agree with this, but David Haye IS NOT the HW division. It seems we can't discuss HWs without Haye getting mentioned, often by you, and as he hasn't done enough in the division, why do we have to mention him every time any HWs get mentioned. Wlad has earnt the right to at least be discussed in context with great HWs of the past, Haye hasn't so let's leave him out of discussions about Jack Johnson

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The only reason you guys want to compare Wlad with the greats is to bitch and moan about him so if you're thinking that reading about David Haye and how much I hate him is annoying and you want me to lay off, then I'd oblige you if the people who dislike Wladimir would stop knocking him all the time.

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I'd like you to find the post where I have b1tched & moaned about Wlad, or where I've knocked him. I have some criticisms, but I'm not one to lay into him, I give him the respect & due he deserves. However, that really is no excuse for you going on about Haye. PBF is my favourite fighter, yet I read endless threads where people slag him off about this and that, saying he's a 'pussy', however I don't then start badmouthing Cotto or Pacquiao just because those people are idiots

Well to each their own....you don't like my posts then don't read them

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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lol what the fuck Lyle... was anybody even talking about Haye? ???

Bit out of left field that one.

I know you love Wlad but has Haye honestly hit that nerve of yours THAT hard? ???

Not every fighter is like Mike Tyson, a swarming wrecking ball that throws caution to the wind. Obviously Wlad had some problems (got caught and stamina) when he was more agressive so he has toned down his attack. Wlad is a big guy, is not young, and doesnt have great stamina so if he goes for broke too early (and blows his load some might say) and doesnt get the guy out of there Wlad may run into some trouble. He is making millions right now, dominating the division, and fighting every top fighter there is. If you dont like it, dont watch him. I appreciate his style, and the fact that he KO's his opponents. Wlad regularly sells out large fight venues so other people enjoy his fights as well......This is by far not the worst the division has been, John Ruiz and Chris Byrd used to be top HWs..:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hunter

If you dont like it, dont watch him.

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That's what people are doing... ;)

That's why HBO didn't even bother buying the fight.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well I guess the move to heavyweight fits David Haye because he is trash....perfect match

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lol what the fuck Lyle... was anybody even talking about Haye? ???

Bit out of left field that one.

I know you love Wlad but has Haye honestly hit that nerve of yours THAT hard? ???

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I think Lyle fancies Haye and dreams about him, making him feel like a traitor to the Klits and then takes it out on us lot.

Holy smoke batman I didn't realise what i was about to start. It was a fairly off hand comment really particularly regarding Jack Johnson. I guess I just had a hankering for the old days of the HW division when it seemed a lot tougher. I'm not one to bag the Klits too much but the fight really didnt do anything for me. And Lyle you are right about some of the things you say about Mr Johnson, he was in it for the $$ I guess as much as anyone. Maybe I should have said Foreman, or Marciano or Ali instead of Johnson but I still have the hankering. : )

I really do like both Klitscho brothers because they are sound technical boxers, but I can understand why people are complaining that they are not blowing away their opponents in an exciting fashion that dominant HW champs have done.

And the HW champion has always been recognized as the face of the sport.