After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list?

The Klits are the biggest, strongest, most athletic heavyweight boxersof all-time. Plus, they hit hard. They are certainly faster than any boxer I can remember for their size. They've got amazingly quick reflexes. I see them dodging most punches by backing straight up, like Ali. They have dominated the heavyweight division like no other champions.

Now we get to see if Wlad can call the round like Ali. Punish another great fighter like Haye. I've watched Haye. He's a great fighter. Fast, hits like a horse kicks.

But watch the Klits. I saw somebody criticize them for their jab, jab, jab, LOL. Amazing that someone would criticize them for that! LOL. I've always heard the jab was the greatest weapon and sets up everything else.

But it's more than just a jab, jab, jab. Watch them closely. Watch their eyes. They are watching their opponent intently, punishing him with the jab while they watch and focus on and watch and watch their opponent's pattern and figure out exactly how they are going to take him apart.

It (usually) takes 10 to 20 years for the ATG's to be recognized. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the Klits will be recognized as ATG's. I hope to live to see that happen.

I'm not saying HW p4p ATG's. So please don't throw Marciano at me. I'm saying toe to toe in the ring in their prime ATG's.

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

The Klitschko brothers are good and I recognize they have skill, but I must admit, it has always pained me to see them beat up on smaller fighters then them (which is like 98% of their opponents).

I have always wanted to see them fight someone who would be about the same size and see how they fair. (Lewis was one of those rare occasions)
That's why, even though it wouldnt have been that great, I would have liked to see Valuev in there with a Klitschko...
Ah well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

The Klits are the biggest, strongest real heavyweight boxing athletes of all-time. Plus, they hit hard. They are certainly faster than any athlete I can remember for their size. They've got amazingly quick reflexes. I see them dodging most punches by backing straight up, like Ali. They have dominated the heavyweight division like no other champions.

Now we get to see if Wlad can call the round like Ali. Punish another great fighter like Haye. I've watched Haye. He's a great fighter. Fast, hits like a horse kicks.

But watch the Klits. I saw somebody criticize them for their jab, jab, jab, LOL. Amazing that someone would criticize them for that! LOL. I've always heard the jab was the greatest weapon and sets up everything else.

But it's more than just a jab, jab, jab. Watch them closely. They are watching their opponent intently, punishing him with the jab while they watch and focus on and watch and watch their opponent's pattern and figure out exactly how they are going to take him apart.

It (usually) takes 10 to 20 years for the ATG's to be recognized. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the Klits will be recognized as ATG's I hope to live to see that happen.

I'm not saying HW p4p ATG's. So please don't throw Marciano at me. I'm saying toe to toe in the ring in their prime ATG's.

---

Best Heavies of all time? Hmmm... Sitting along side names like... Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Jack Dempsey, Sonny Liston, Jim Jeffries, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott...

Maybe Wlad...

They are the most dominant right now and Wlad is surely making a big argument for a legacy...

Wlad will surely be remembered as the best of this era... Without a doubt. Vitali is past it, even though he still holds a portion of the crown... But had a good run years back.

I can say that that's not out of the relm of possibility.

The wlad haye fight is by no means a foregone conclusion. Also comparing wlad with Ali. Come on dave hughey what the fukk man

This post is hypothetical bullshit , its not happened so how can we even have an opinion on it.

Vitali is an all time great

Wlad has been beaten by pancakes who the likes of ali, louis etc would beat in there sleep.

If wlad beats haye it`ll be a sad day for heavyweight boxing, it`ll just mean we`ll have to wait for both brothers to retire before we can actually get some parity back into the division

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Vitali is an all time great

Wlad has been beaten by pancakes who the likes of ali, louis etc would beat in there sleep.

If wlad beats haye it`ll be a sad day for heavyweight boxing, it`ll just mean we`ll have to wait for both brothers to retire before we can actually get some parity back into the division

---

Some big words from you , not pissed yet ?;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

This post is hypothetical bullshit , its not happened so how can we even have an opinion on it.

---

I have an oppinion on everything... Even things that haven't happened yet... and yes, you should have fish for dinner.

You're welcome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

This post is hypothetical bullshit , its not happened so how can we even have an opinion on it.

---

I have an oppinion on everything... Even things that haven't happened yet... and yes, you should have fish for dinner.

You're welcome.

---

Mike you are all knowledgeable and a credit to this forum , nay you are a credit to mankind.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

This post is hypothetical bullshit , its not happened so how can we even have an opinion on it.

---

I have an oppinion on everything... Even things that haven't happened yet... and yes, you should have fish for dinner.

You're welcome.

---

Mike you are all knowledgeable and a credit to this forum , nay you are a credit to mankind.:cool:

---

Why thank you, sir... Have you paid homage to "War" today on this 15th day of April, 25 years to the day?

The opening post is almost Fantana-esqe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryanman

The opening post is almost Fantana-esqe

---

I thought the same goddamn thing. But I figured I'd humor it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

I have an oppinion on everything... Even things that haven't happened yet... and yes, you should have fish for dinner.

You're welcome.

---

Mike you are all knowledgeable and a credit to this forum , nay you are a credit to mankind.:cool:

---

Why thank you, sir... Have you paid homage to "War" today on this 15th day of April, 25 years to the day?

---

Indeed I have great memories

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

The Klitschko brothers are good and I recognize they have skill, but I must admit, it has always pained me to see them beat up on smaller fighters then them (which is like 98% of their opponents).

I have always wanted to see them fight someone who would be about the same size and see how they fair. (Lewis was one of those rare occasions)
That's why, even though it wouldnt have been that great, I would have liked to see Valuev in there with a Klitschko...
Ah well.

---

Wlad has beaten at LEAST 2 guys bigger than himself, that's probably about the same as Lennox Lewis.

And I can't say this enough WLADIMIR is better than Vitali

Like Wladimir will even step into a ring with David Haye.

lol lefty are you serious? HE SIGNED TO FIGHT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless of why Haye backed out, he backed out. Wlad is definitely not scared of him, he mocked Haye to his face when he barely even knew who the guy was. It's the other way around. When someone talks as reckless as Haye, it's usually them who gets second thoughts about steppiing into the ring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amat

lol lefty are you serious? HE SIGNED TO FIGHT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless of why Haye backed out, he backed out. Wlad is definitely not scared of him, he mocked Haye to his face when he barely even knew who the guy was. It's the other way around. When someone talks as reckless as Haye, it's usually them who gets second thoughts about steppiing into the ring.

---

Signatures dont mean shiit. Until I see Haye in one corner and Mr Bitchsko in the other, only then will I be satisfied he'll fight him.

:vd:

So you actually believe that Haye scares Wlad to the point he won't step in the ring with him? This isn't a schoolyard fight lefty these are champion boxers, they're not scared to step in the ring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amat

:vd:

So you actually believe that Haye scares Wlad to the point he won't step in the ring with him? This isn't a schoolyard fight lefty these are champion boxers, they're not scared to step in the ring.

---

I hope he aint. But he's been running his mouth lately. All he has to do is man up and offer 50-50. Then the fights his simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

The Klitschko brothers are good and I recognize they have skill, but I must admit, it has always pained me to see them beat up on smaller fighters then them (which is like 98% of their opponents).

I have always wanted to see them fight someone who would be about the same size and see how they fair. (Lewis was one of those rare occasions)
That's why, even though it wouldnt have been that great, I would have liked to see Valuev in there with a Klitschko...
Ah well.

---

UMMMMM...Kind of hard for them not to beat up on smaller guys considering they are 6'6" and 6'7" no?....

What a fight with Valuev?...a guy who was embarrassed by 6'3" David Haye....How many times could they beat on him?

Tony Thompson 6'5"

Ray Austin 6'6"

Williamson 6'4"

McCline 6'6"

WolfGramm 6'4"

So not as if he has a string of 5'11" guys on his resume...Most average abt 6'3"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amat

lol lefty are you serious? HE SIGNED TO FIGHT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless of why Haye backed out, he backed out. Wlad is definitely not scared of him, he mocked Haye to his face when he barely even knew who the guy was. It's the other way around. When someone talks as reckless as Haye, it's usually them who gets second thoughts about steppiing into the ring.

---

I had a name or sig bet w lefty for 1 yr on that fight...After Haye bitched out the name Leftylee seemed top fade away with Hayes bravado...

Coincidence or Phenomenon

For some reason I believe if this fight happens it could be another Cooney-Holmes. You know where an established reigning HW champion gives a beat down to what a lot of people at that time considered to be a premier contender that was really overhyped, minus the racial overtones of course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

---

54-3 sucks? Surely you kid? So, I guess you would go 57-0, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

---

Name two heavyweights that are still active TODAY with better records.

unfortunatley for them, their competition sucks, i would love to see them against a prime mike or prime lewis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boxer4life

unfortunatley for them, their competition sucks, i would love to see them against a prime mike or prime lewis

---

But what people tend to forget is time erases that... The same can be said for Joe Louis's "bum of the month club" and Rocky Marciano's competition... Yet there they are, all time greats... and rightfully so. You can't blame a fighter for competition levels.

Now if Tye Fields became heavyweight champion... Then I'd worry.

What's the difference between Wlad and Zab Judah?







.....Judah hasn't been knocked down nearly as many times. To answer the original question, Wlad will stand on the outside looking in;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo Frazier

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

---

54-3 sucks? Surely you kid? So, I guess you would go 57-0, no?

---

I don't care if he has fought 100 times, his resume sucks. It's not his fault that this is one of the weakest era's in Heavyweight history, but it's still a fact

Best Wins

Chris Byrd, Haism Rahman, Sam Pter

Stopped by

Corrie Who?
Ross Who?
Lamont Who?


In the context of all time greats (which is what the thread is about) his record sucks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

---

Name two heavyweights that are still active TODAY with better records.

---

What's that got do with anything. The thread is about whether he is an ATG and as explained in the post directly above, in that context his record sucks balls!

Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.

There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?

Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)

Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.

There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?

Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)

Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)

---

Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?

Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.

There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?

Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)

Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)

---

Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?

Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!

---

That was then, this is now. Wlad has dominated his opposition for years now. And I agree with JimBoogie that dominance is mainly factored into who is an ATG in boxing, of course it would help if they have great opposition. One can't help if they fought in a weak era, but what they can do is dominate it.

Even though he is not an HW, going by your logic one can say Pacquiao is not an ATG (like him or hate him, the general consensus he is one) because he got ko by nobodies in his prime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.

There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?

Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)

Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)

---

Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?

Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!

---

That was then, this is now. Wlad has dominated his opposition for years now. And I agree with JimBoogie that dominance is mainly factored into who is an ATG in boxing, of course it would help if they have great opposition. One can't help if they fought in a weak era, but what they can do is dominate it.

Even though he is not an HW, going by your logic one can say Pacquiao is not an ATG (like him or hate him, the general consensus he is one) because he got ko by nobodies in his prime.

---

You're right that it's not his fault it is a weak era, but it IS his fault that he lost (badly) 3 of those fights. Marciano is difficult to rate becuase his era was weak, but at least he baet the weaklings as wasn't brutalised!

When did Pac get Koed in his prime? Pac was Koed 11 years ago after just 20 fights and at least 30 pounds below his prime weight. Wlad was Koed in 2003 and 2004 after already being World Champion for 4 years and after 40 fights (in his prime!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

I don't care if he has fought 100 times, his resume sucks. It's not his fault that this is one of the weakest era's in Heavyweight history, but it's still a fact

Best Wins

Chris Byrd, Haism Rahman, Sam Pter

Stopped by

Corrie Who?
Ross Who?
Lamont Who?


In the context of all time greats (which is what the thread is about) his record sucks!

---

....man you know what BigH you're right, I mean people would respect him more had he lost to someone like Oliver McCall or Buster Douglas!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

I don't care if he has fought 100 times, his resume sucks. It's not his fault that this is one of the weakest era's in Heavyweight history, but it's still a fact

Best Wins

Chris Byrd, Haism Rahman, Sam Pter

Stopped by

Corrie Who?
Ross Who?
Lamont Who?


In the context of all time greats (which is what the thread is about) his record sucks!

---

....man you know what BigH you're right, I mean people would respect him more had he lost to someone like Oliver McCall or Buster Douglas!

---

Certainly would mate

Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?

You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.

There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Based on his short domination and unification attempts, I used to have Mike Tyson clinging on to the No.10 spot on my little top 10 list.
However, I always said that if Wladimir Klitschko unified the division, I'd happily regard him as the 10th best Heavyweight ever.

There really is no point picking holes in his opposition. For me it's about being a dominant champion, regardless of the era you fight in.
Besides, how often do you see a heavyweight fighting other 'great' heavyweights (that aren't washed up or out of their better suited weight class)?

Not often. Infact, hardly ever ;)

Those that do, or have, i think you'll find are quite high up on your respective Top.10's... So there's definitely space for Wladdy somewhere :)

---

Even after getting KTFO in his Pomp, 3 no marks?

Which other top 10 ATG would have lost in or around their prime, to opposition as poor as Wlad has!

---

Joe Louis ;)

Okay, it's not quite as bad but he did:
* Get KTFO one year before becoming Champion of the world.
* Go on to be the Boxing's most dominant Champion.
* Fight a long list of weak opposition :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Oh you are full of shit BigH.....I've explained Wlad's losses countless times, but let me ask you this....Does it matter on Bernard Hopkins' record that he lost to Clinton Mitchell and drew with Segundo Mercado? Does it matter that Ray Robinson lost 19 fights? Does it matter in their legacies?

You bastards just won't shut up about Wlad's losses EVEN the one he avenged! Which correct me if I'm wrong, was one of the complaints about Wlad.

There's only 1 heavyweight that never lost a fight you'd do well to remember that

---

Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)

---

...just get over it, my God you just beat a dead horse....may I add that Lennox Lewis got sparked out with 1 punch from Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall, and as bad as people say Wlad's chin is he's never been sparked with 1 punch.