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So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Edwin Valero is the only fighter in History to have a 100% KO Record and is in the Guiness book of records for the most consecutive KO's also.
Would he have battered Manny down with his ferocious power..?
That fight was 100% on the horizon no question.
This 5 min highlight video has got some fierce KO's and he's not just knocking them out he's battering them unconcious with some sickening shots , head and body.
Check it out......... and what a waste of a fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbLZE-NcgE
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
I have to say with his drink and drug problems I really doubt it.
I mean even if he had not killed his wife and then himself, it's probable that his substance abuse and problems outside the ring would have led to him getting beaten inside it soon enough.
But if you mean a Valero clean of drink and drugs, and focused fully on fighting, then yeah he could have been really really special.
Sad loss.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
I doubt anyone will ever again win a major title, and then finish their career undefeated with a 100% KO ratio.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I have to say with his drink and drug problems I really doubt it.
I mean even if he had not killed his wife and then himself, it's probable that his substance abuse and problems outside the ring would have led to him getting beaten inside it soon enough.
But if you mean a Valero clean of drink and drugs, and focused fully on fighting, then yeah he could have been really really special.
Sad loss.
Yeah I agree with that, if he could have got himself clean I think he'd have been the real deal. He would never have been in a dull fight either, real sad story...
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
I want to just hang this out there- anyone think Valero's drug use may have played a part in his success in the ring?
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zilla
I want to just hang this out there- anyone think Valero's drug use may have played a part in his success in the ring?
The Goverment seriously protected him when they should have helped him fight his demons....makes you wonder what else they might have turned a blind eye to ;)
Insane power in both Hands and he'd have been a force against anyone imo.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
Give me a break he had good handspeed, crushing power. And when he chose to box he looked somewhat like a young Manny Pacquiao. He for certain could of been one of the greats of this era.
Just because the guy was a scumbag doesn't mean he was a bum, the guy was a world champion who was breaking into the top 10 P4P, so how was he a bum exactly ?
Yes his defense wasn't great but so what ? his offense is his defense which is what made him so exciting.
Not all the great fighters have great defenses. See Jack Dempsey, Aaron Pryor, Orlando Canizales, Julio Cesar Chavez.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
I think the guy was an absolute blast to watch, he could have been a great great fighter down the line for sure. On the flip side, I also agree with one of PIYE's point in that he was a knockout waiting to happen, maybe at LWW once he met someone with good power.
He would have given us some ATG boxing nights IMO though for sure.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Agreed
Anyone think he could have gone so far as to have given Manny the fight of his life or maybe even sparked him out?
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
Agreed
Anyone think he could have gone so far as to have given Manny the fight of his life or maybe even sparked him out?
Well he does have all the same attributes of a young Manny Pacquiao. The southpaw stance, the aggressive style, the handspeed, the power, ETC.
He reminded me alot of the young Manny Pacquiao, before he become more polished. It really all depends mate, maybe if he would of had the right trainer, he could of been up there with Manny Pacquiao.
If you actually see him sparring and his last fight, he actually has underrated handspeed and boxing skills. It all depends if he could be like Manny Pacquiao knowing when to be aggressive and knowing when to box.
Possible though he was 28 wasn't it ? and Manny Pacquiao started to really improve at near enough that age.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Oh God no, He would have lost to the first power puncher who hit him on the Jaw, Who exactly did he ever beat? A guy like Carl Froch get's a hard time and he has beaten world class opponents this bum gets overrated because he knocked out bums and killed himself? fuck this guy.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Oh God no, He would have lost to the first power puncher who hit him on the Jaw, Who exactly did he ever beat? A guy like Carl Froch get's a hard time and he has beaten world class opponents this bum gets overrated because he knocked out bums and killed himself? fuck this guy.
Antonio Pitalua was a puncher.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Oh God no, He would have lost to the first power puncher who hit him on the Jaw, Who exactly did he ever beat? A guy like Carl Froch get's a hard time and he has beaten world class opponents this bum gets overrated because he knocked out bums and killed himself? fuck this guy.
I'm just curious if anyone saw enough potential to think he may have had a shot basically...none of us have/did or ever will see him with a real live fighter bashing him back so we'll never know.
I just saw something in him that makes me think maybe..;)
That's all
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
Agreed
Anyone think he could have gone so far as to have given Manny the fight of his life or maybe even sparked him out?
What makes you think he could have sparked out Manny?
By fighting guys like Demarco at 135? And Velasquez?
His level of opposition wasn't that great. He had talent no doubt, but let's not jump the gun.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bi tch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fa g on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bitch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fag on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
Only a clueless idiot would not consider going into hostile Panama and taking the title from the vastly underrated Vincent Mosquera not to be an impressive feat.
I await the who's Vincent Mosquera reply next
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
No let's not overrate this bum, he fought with his chin in the air and was a knockout waiting to happen.
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bitch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fag on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
Edwin Valero did show adversity in the ring twice, when he was badly cut by an elbow vs Antonio DeMarco. And he kept on fighting like nothing happened.
And against Vicente Mosquera who was a good fighter. Where Edwin Valero was knocked down, but he got up and won a real battle.
As i said just because of what he done outside the ring, doesn't effect him for what he done inside the ring.
I mean hell Carlos Monzon murdered his wife, and was a wife beater. No real different to Edwin Valero, but people still see him as one of top 3 Middleweights of all time.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bitch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fag on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
Only a clueless idiot would not consider going into hostile Panama and taking the title from the vastly underrated Vincent Mosquera not to be an impressive feat.
I await the who's Vincent Mosquera reply next
Mate your 30 years old, are you really that much of a tw@t? are you really trying to prove you know more than me about boxing? why? for the benefit of who? does it make you feel better to have that over someone?
Mate don't you have kids you should be looking after or something? Just fuc k off and do that then.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Why couldn't Valero killed your stupid ass instead. It's annoying reading posts from dumb fukks like you who can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life. Ok he butchered his wife for no reason. Get the fukk over it. That don't make him a bum as a boxer. The man was an outstanding talent. Any knowledgeable fan (ok maybe that don't include you) can see that. At 140 against a steroid free Pacquiao, yeah I would favor Valero to win in a great fire fight
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bitch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fag on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
Edwin Valero did show adversity in the ring twice, when he was badly cut by an elbow vs Antonio DeMarco. And he kept on fighting like nothing happened.
And against Vicente Mosquera who was a good fighter. Where Edwin Valero was knocked down, but got up and won a real battle.
As i said just because of what he done outside the ring, doesn't effect him for what he done inside the ring.
I mean hell Carlos Monzon murdered his wife, and was a wife beater. No real different to Edwin Valero, but people still see him as one of top 3 Middleweights of all time.
Ok I can respect you opinion but were the opponents he proved this ability to fight through adversity worthy of elite status? no! I think the fact that he has never fought an elite opponent means he should get no theoretical credit, and now that he is dead he will continue to get overrated.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
No ones knows how good he would have ended up being. Did he have power and a lot of potential? Absolutely, and he was on his way towards realizing a lot of that potential. However, boxing has been filled with fighter who have been unable to succeed despite an abundance of physical skills.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Ahh hahah, have you caught feelings you lil bitch? lol wow, I wont waste anymore time on you how do i put this fag on ignore? as for Valero he really never beat anyone of note and so gets no credit from me. He also demonstrated he was a coward in real life so I imagine when faced with adversity in the ring he would have done the same thing as he did in life and quit.
Only a clueless idiot would not consider going into hostile Panama and taking the title from the vastly underrated Vincent Mosquera not to be an impressive feat.
I await the who's Vincent Mosquera reply next
Mate your 30 years old, are you really that much of a tw@t? are you really trying to prove you know more than me about boxing? why? for the benefit of who? does it make you feel better to have that over someone?
Mate don't you have kids you should be looking after or something? Just fuc k off and do that then.
The boys are in school. I got about another an hour to continue to expose your stupidity.
And what happen to your faggot ass putting me on ignore?
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Only a clueless idiot would not consider going into hostile Panama and taking the title from the vastly underrated Vincent Mosquera not to be an impressive feat.
I await the who's Vincent Mosquera reply next
Mate your 30 years old, are you really that much of a tw@t? are you really trying to prove you know more than me about boxing? why? for the benefit of who? does it make you feel better to have that over someone?
Mate don't you have kids you should be looking after or something? Just fuc k off and do that then.
The boys are in school. I got about another an hour to continue to expose your stupidity.
And what happen to your f@ggot ass putting me on ignore?
An hour to expose my stupidity to who? I could give a Fvck about you opinion so how could you possibly expose me? your a 30 year old under achieving bum who thinks it's funny to mock dead mothers and now has his knickers in a bunch cause I addressed you like the coward you are.
Do you think it's ok to hit women?
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
piye
Mate your 30 years old, are you really that much of a tw@t? are you really trying to prove you know more than me about boxing? why? for the benefit of who? does it make you feel better to have that over someone?
Mate don't you have kids you should be looking after or something? Just fuc k off and do that then.
The boys are in school. I got about another an hour to continue to expose your stupidity.
And what happen to your f@ggot ass putting me on ignore?
An hour to expose my stupidity to who? I could give a Fvck about you opinion so how could you possibly expose me? your a 30 year old under achieving bum who thinks it's funny to mock dead mothers and now has his knickers in a bunch cause I addressed you like the coward you are.
Do you think it's ok to hit women?
Was it your sister Valero killed that you have that much hate for him? Or are you really that stupid that you can't separate the mans personal life from his ring life? The thread title had nothing to do with his personal life. It was simply asking about his chances against Manny Pac. Yet here comes piye, the dumb fukk who's still trying to save Boxing on Setanta saying fukk him. He's a bum cuz he killed his wife. You see the problem? Comment on the muthafukkin topic with related boxing thoughts without bring in the man personal life. Is that possible for you to do? Or is that asking to much
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Man this has taken me by complete surprise. What a shame. :(
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
take your crap to the hidden board guys.
as for the video the main thing that stuck out to me was the poor kid he had on his shoulder towards the end of the video.
i'm guessing she was his child... pretty sad stuff she must have gone through and a massive difference to the proud child shown in that clip.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saddo
take your crap to the hidden board guys.
as for the video the main thing that stuck out to me was the poor kid he had on his shoulder towards the end of the video.
i'm guessing she was his child... pretty sad stuff she must have gone through and a massive difference to the proud child shown in that clip.
Cute as that kid
Terrible thing that will affect various people for a long long time.
I like that killer straight left to the middle of the body followed by a thumping right hook.
Fierce natural power:o
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
I think edwin could have possibly edged Pac. Valero just looked like a man possessed when he was firing shots away. I think Pac lacks that even though he throws like a mad man as well. Valero just looked crazy and that nothing would stop him, only death in that ring and think that is what would have propelled Valero
As another poster already mentioned or questioned, I think the drugs and alcohol definitely contributed to his performance in the ring. Once people start getting level headed, more money etc. they start losing that edge.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
markb018
I think edwin could have possibly edged Pac. Valero just looked like a man possessed when he was firing shots away. I think Pac lacks that even though he throws like a mad man as well. Valero just looked crazy and that nothing would stop him, only death in that ring and think that is what would have propelled Valero
As another poster already mentioned or questioned, I think the drugs and alcohol definitely contributed to his performance in the ring. Once people start getting level headed, more money etc. they start losing that edge.
Good point fella...just watching those highlights you can tell he was a wildman the sort who wouldn't give a f8ck if he died in their.
Thats one dangerous fucker to be fighting against.
trust me...i know the sort;D
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Valero had great talent and potential, but he hasn't fought elite A-Level opposition yet, so I'm not going to speculate that he beats an ATG fighter like Pacquiao that is still in his prime.
Plus he was entering the 140 pound class, I don't even know if he would have beaten Bradley or Alexander much less the top 147 pound ones.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
He never looked all that special to me but at certain times you saw some really slick stuff. 27 wins and 27 KO's though......anyone else matched that?
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Valero had great talent and potential, but he hasn't fought elite A-Level opposition yet, so I'm not going to speculate that he beats an ATG fighter like Pacquiao that is still in his prime.
Plus he was entering the 140 pound class, I don't even know if he would have beaten Bradley or Alexander much less the top 147 pound ones.
Agreed.Think alot of the mystery and uncertainty will trump him up.Will go down as a we'll never know.Alot can be made of numbers but I think Ko's are over rated to a degree.Even if he was around long term the travel,medical restrictions would and did impede his true exposure and possibility.Impressed against a still improving Demarco,just destroyed him but thats a long way from the very best.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
The current Juan Manuel Marquez fairly easily UD's him IMO.
Pac kayoes him ala Hatton. Given that he'll go straight up to Manny w/c is definately a KO for Pacquiao.
Katsidis, Funeka or Guzman should have been he's immediate fight. before JMM or Pac
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
Edwin Valero is the only fighter in History to have a 100% KO Record and
is in the Guiness book of records for the most consecutive KO's also.
Would he have battered Manny down with his ferocious power..?
That fight was 100% on the horizon no question.
This 5 min highlight video has got some fierce KO's and he's not just knocking them out he's battering them unconcious with some sickening shots , head and body.
Check it out......... and what a waste of a fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbLZE-NcgE
That record has been beaten now by some bloke called Tyrone summat who beat it with 19 1st round KOs but then started losing.
Imo we never saw the best of Valero. Imagine the classics with Bradley or Alexander? I think he would have beaten Pac by KO. Weve seen Pac knocked out a couple times by lesser punchers. Valero will be remembered but possibly for the wrong reasons.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
Edwin Valero is the only fighter in History to have a 100% KO Record and is in the Guiness book of records for the most consecutive KO's also.
Would he have battered Manny down with his ferocious power..?
That fight was 100% on the horizon no question.
This 5 min highlight video has got some fierce KO's and he's not just knocking them out he's battering them unconcious with some sickening shots , head and body.
Check it out......... and what a waste of a fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbLZE-NcgE
Actually Lamar Clark is in the Guiness Book with 44 onsecutive KOs. Course his record is inundated with wrestlers posing as boxers and no hopers.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
He was a good fighter, but you'd struggle to say he'd proved himself as even one of the 20 best in the world, let alone ATG material. Mosquera is by far his best win, DeMarco is decent & I know everyone was raving about how skillful he looked, but you have to remember that DeMarco was no 135 southpaw Hearns, he was getting outboxed by Adjaho in his previous fight until the Ghanaian bizarrely quit.
I think that a fight with Pacquiao would have been thrilling for all of 2/3 rounds before Manny stopped him. I wouldn't have favoured him against Marquez at 135, or any of the top 140lbers, so any talk of him beating Pacquiao is laughable to me.
Exciting fighter does not equal ATG. His early demise does not make him the KO version of Salvador Sanchez.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Yeah Valeros legend will grow now that he is gone. He was a great talent but to say he would beat an ATG who is proven like Pac is probably going a bit overboard.
He could have been an ATG but we will never know and some other outside the ring antics would have eventually caught up with him if this hadnt happened.
Definitely sad to see.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Are we glorifying a MURDERER / ADDICT / ALCOHOLIC here? I don't care what the dude has done. He has no morals, how can you hit your wife and mother?! Boxing lost nothing.
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Re: So have we just lost potentially one of the best fighters ever..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LuciferTheGreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
Edwin Valero is the only fighter in History to have a 100% KO Record and is in the Guiness book of records for the most consecutive KO's also.
Would he have battered Manny down with his ferocious power..?
That fight was 100% on the horizon no question.
This 5 min highlight video has got some fierce KO's and he's not just knocking them out he's battering them unconcious with some sickening shots , head and body.
Check it out......... and what a waste of a fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbLZE-NcgE
Actually Lamar Clark is in the Guiness Book with 44 onsecutive KOs. Course his record is inundated with wrestlers posing as boxers and no hopers.
I think he meant most consecutive 1st round KOs which Valero was in the guiness book of redords for but that has now been beaten.
