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Wow I would be surprised if Murray and his team took this, people would say he ducked Ortiz but I can't see Murray beating Ortiz in a million years Ortiz is bigger faster better skills it could be good for a few rounds but Murray is two fights from a world title at 135, what do you think he will do?
I know that there is the added bonus if he wins he could face Khan but If he takes this fight I would take my hat off to him.
Well it is about time he stepped up, he's had almost 30 fights and he's 25. So if he can't beat Victor Ortiz now, he never will. John Murray is a very basic come forward fighter. But he may cause some suprises but i doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
At 140 though? Do you think mate, I suppose financially it would be a good move as he is not making much fighting in greater manchester school gyms at the moment :p, looking at it again maybe he will take it as he could loose and go back to 135 but maybe he will loose all his rankings at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWell it is about time he stepped up, he's had almost 30 fights and he's 25. So if he can't beat Victor Ortiz now, he never will. John Murray is a very basic come forward fighter. But he may cause some suprises but i doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
It will also depend on tomorrows fight if he is in a war which is not out of the question might be to soon for him but going by the odds Murray is 1/33 on looks like a easy job on paper.
Only Mick Hennessey would be stupid enough to allow that to happen. So it depends on what happens with him. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983At 140 though? Do you think mate, I suppose financially it would be a good move as he is not making much fighting in greater manchester school gyms at the moment :p, looking at it again maybe he will take it as he could loose and go back to 135 but maybe he will loose all his rankings at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWell it is about time he stepped up, he's had almost 30 fights and he's 25. So if he can't beat Victor Ortiz now, he never will. John Murray is a very basic come forward fighter. But he may cause some suprises but i doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
It will also depend on tomorrows fight if he is in a war which is not out of the question might be to soon for him but going by the odds Murray is 1/33 on looks like a easy job on paper.
dont rule him out
it would be fantastic for him if it happened
cummon john
Yes I speak to John sometimes top lad, and like you say don't rule him out he might step upto the plate tougher the challenge the better the performance, just think though he can be outboxed and Ortiz could break him up. Hope not would love this fight I think it could be a war for as long as it lasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Well there's no real big fights for him at Lightweight that are realistic, guys like Soto, Marquez, Funeka, would do bad damage to John Murray.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983At 140 though? Do you think mate, I suppose financially it would be a good move as he is not making much fighting in greater manchester school gyms at the moment :p, looking at it again maybe he will take it as he could loose and go back to 135 but maybe he will loose all his rankings at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWell it is about time he stepped up, he's had almost 30 fights and he's 25. So if he can't beat Victor Ortiz now, he never will. John Murray is a very basic come forward fighter. But he may cause some suprises but i doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
It will also depend on tomorrows fight if he is in a war which is not out of the question might be to soon for him but going by the odds Murray is 1/33 on looks like a easy job on paper.
Victor Ortiz is a big pay for him, a chance for him to get into the spotlight. And i don't care what the odds say mate, no way is John Murray that much of an underdog.
He's in with a shot in this fight, he could very well break Victor Ortiz's will. If he can close the distance, i mean the smart money says Victor Ortiz will be too classy and he will out maneuver the slower one dimensional John Murray.
But i give him more of a chance in the Victor Ortiz fight, than i would against the other 3 names i mentioned, thats for damn sure.
too close to call
ortiz maybe just shading a hometown decision, but murray will be right in there and looking to dominate from the get go
murray could be bigger and stronger at light welterQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Yes I speak to John sometimes top lad, and like you say don't rule him out he might step upto the plate tougher the challenge the better the performance, just think though he can be outboxed and Ortiz could break him up. Hope not would love this fight I think it could be a war for as long as it lasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
i think if he can take his power early murray could wear him down
murray hasnt really been tested yet, and still has the stubborness of an unbeaten fighter
I'd like to see Murray win a few more an step up at lightweight first, stepping up for your first fight against Victor Ortiz at LightWelter would be a stupid move just now IMO. Right now for me a fight against Juan Diaz or even Antonio DeMarco at lightweight would be great get noticed fights and could also be good fights for the fans too. Very winnable for Murray.
I hope Murray succeeds I really do..... If he had more power I'd be certain he could get to the top atleast once........
Carnt remember who said it last night, that there was talk of Murray struggling with the weight if thats the case i think it would be worth the risk in stepping up to face Ortiz. It would be a tough fight but he would test the heart of Ortiz if he can get in close and make it a war.
Murray is a good fighter but he'll get mullered once he steps up to world-class. He's too slow, too static, doesn't have KO power.
He always looks like he's been in a war at this level so fuck knows what the big boys will do to him.
Agree mate, not sold on Ortiz just yet i want to see him in a hard fight again to see if he has the hunger to be a top fighter. Murray is way to easy to hit but he will make Ortiz work hard for how ever long it lasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ortiz is a huge 140 lb fighter, I don't think he has fought at 140 since the Madiana fight 18 months ago, Murray is honest fighter who comes forward no head movement, Ortiz would muller him, he struggled to get a limited guy out of there last night at 135. Murray didn't look like he wanted anything to do with Ortiz after he was asked last night.
His contract is up with far Mick in October he should go to Warren and get a fight with Mitchell that would be a great fight.
Murray has heart and desire in abundance though and when the question was asked about Ortiz (fighting Maidana) he quit, citing crap about protecting his good looks and speach.
Ortiz has more skills, but that doesn't mean he'd win the fight. Murray certainly wouldn't make it easy for him.
Ortiz KO's Murray within 5 rounds
After watching the fight last night, Murray didn't really impress that much, so if Frank is going to offer him some proper money to fight on the Khan undercard, with an even bigger payday down the line if they both pick up the wins, then I think he should take it.
As someone mentioned, he's not going to be earning that much with the shows he's doing at the moment, and the more journeymen he fights, eventually complacency will sneak in, and he might get caught out and lose. A title shot now is worth two in the bush (or something like that).
As for the weight, if he is having difficulties, it's just another nudge towards the Warren offer.
The offer is from Golden Boy, I think they see this as more British fans tuning in and getting to see more of Ortiz as Bradley/Alexander do agree to fight there is deffo a rematch so I see Glodenboy trying to make Khan v Ortiz if Khan gets past Maidana and Murray is not a bad opponent for him and like I said will get more Brits interested in Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
The warren reference I was making was regard to Murray whose contract has now run out with fat Mick and for me I would sign with Warren and then there is the possibility of Mitchell v Murray which is probably the best domestic fight out there for me in the whole country.
And also for people saying he is struggling to make 135 not at all John is very comfortable at 135, but when Adam Smith asked him about the Ortiz fight after last night, his answer/reaction to me looked like he has no interest in that fight and as a big fan of Murray I think he would be blown away.
Whoops, that'll be my alzheimers kicking in there, however, if the offer on the table for him to fight at 140 and the money is significantly better, then I'm not sure he shouldn't look more seriously at that. Either way, he needs to get a fight organised that will invigorate him and get him closer to a world title shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Murray is a good fighter but far too one dimensional and predictable at the world level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
naa, you are wrong
he has the perfect style to beat ortiz
he may not have a long carear at world class but he is certainly good enough to mix it with the big boys for a time
khan was wrong when he assessed murrays performance on saturday night, certain things may or may not work for him but that doesnt mean they do or they dont for other boxers
im looking forward to dec 11th now a lot more than i was, i hope it happens
JMM would box circles around Murray, so would a Paulie maliggnagiQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
naa, you are wrong
he has the perfect style to beat ortiz
he may not have a long carear at world class but he is certainly good enough to mix it with the big boys for a time
khan was wrong when he assessed murrays performance on saturday night, certain things may or may not work for him but that doesnt mean they do or they dont for other boxers
im looking forward to dec 11th now a lot more than i was, i hope it happens
Agree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
JMM maybe, murray would beat malliggnanananaiaiaiiaa hands downQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterJMM would box circles around Murray, so would a Paulie maliggnagiQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
naa, you are wrong
he has the perfect style to beat ortiz
he may not have a long carear at world class but he is certainly good enough to mix it with the big boys for a time
khan was wrong when he assessed murrays performance on saturday night, certain things may or may not work for him but that doesnt mean they do or they dont for other boxers
im looking forward to dec 11th now a lot more than i was, i hope it happens
Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
IF the fight happens, I'll bet you £20 he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
bring it on loserQuote:
Originally Posted by koppasIF the fight happens, I'll bet you £20 he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
Eric I respect your love for British fighters but the your Union Jack shades are getting in the way mate, Ortiz would destroy Murray. I will take that bet any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44bring it on loserQuote:
Originally Posted by koppasIF the fight happens, I'll bet you £20 he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
Saying that the fight aint happening, Murray has said he want's to concentrate on 135 division, I new he wouldn't fight Ortiz it would end badly. Ortiz is to strong for Murray, Murray struggles to get Gary Buckland out of there who is a career 130 lb fighter who has since say he is moving back down imagine Ortiz v Buckland it would be over in three rounds, Murray is solid fighter exiciting but he doesn't bang hard enough with that style at world class level he doesn't move his head and Lee Mcallister ( who is average fighter in truth ) showed that he cant deal with movement, I don't even think Ortiz needs to box Murray Ortiz will eventually be a 147 fighter he can stand and trade with Murray and get the better of him, either way Murray would be loose.
the macallister fight was one of murrays worst performances, the worst I have seen, and i dont think it was a movement problem i just think he had an off dayQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Eric I respect your love for British fighters but the your Union Jack shades are getting in the way mate, Ortiz would destroy Murray. I will take that bet any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44bring it on loserQuote:
Originally Posted by koppasIF the fight happens, I'll bet you £20 he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
Saying that the fight aint happening, Murray has said he want's to concentrate on 135 division, I new he wouldn't fight Ortiz it would end badly. Ortiz is to strong for Murray, Murray struggles to get Gary Buckland out of there who is a career 130 lb fighter who has since say he is moving back down imagine Ortiz v Buckland it would be over in three rounds, Murray is solid fighter exiciting but he doesn't bang hard enough with that style at world class level he doesn't move his head and Lee Mcallister ( who is average fighter in truth ) showed that he cant deal with movement, I don't even think Ortiz needs to box Murray Ortiz will eventually be a 147 fighter he can stand and trade with Murray and get the better of him, either way Murray would be loose.
its a pitty the ortiz isnt happening, murray would have won
but we should be able to see him in world class soon, murray is calling out katsidis, maybe we will see that fight and see if murray can take a punch
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the macallister fight was one of murrays worst performances, the worst I have seen, and i dont think it was a movement problem i just think he had an off dayQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Eric I respect your love for British fighters but the your Union Jack shades are getting in the way mate, Ortiz would destroy Murray. I will take that bet any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44bring it on loserQuote:
Originally Posted by koppasIF the fight happens, I'll bet you £20 he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasAgree with all of this. Khan would muller him and Ortiz will stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
khan maybe, murray will beat ortiz
Saying that the fight aint happening, Murray has said he want's to concentrate on 135 division, I new he wouldn't fight Ortiz it would end badly. Ortiz is to strong for Murray, Murray struggles to get Gary Buckland out of there who is a career 130 lb fighter who has since say he is moving back down imagine Ortiz v Buckland it would be over in three rounds, Murray is solid fighter exiciting but he doesn't bang hard enough with that style at world class level he doesn't move his head and Lee Mcallister ( who is average fighter in truth ) showed that he cant deal with movement, I don't even think Ortiz needs to box Murray Ortiz will eventually be a 147 fighter he can stand and trade with Murray and get the better of him, either way Murray would be loose.
its a pitty the ortiz isnt happening, murray would have won
but we should be able to see him in world class soon, murray is calling out katsidis, maybe we will see that fight and see if murray can take a punch
Sorry mate it was deffo a movement problem, Murray who I know very well has not fought anyone with boxing skills who uses movement, Mcallister was giving him fits and boxing his ears off by using the ring and angles, until Murray walked him down, but like I say that is Mcallister a limited domestic fighter, Katsidis wold be to much for him as well imo, get him in with Mitchell and that would be a good indicator of how good he is, his resume is weak and he needs to up his game.
you are wrong dude
i hope it happens sooner rather than later so i can laugh in smuggness
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Which the fight with Ortiz? Or ?
Because he has turned that fight down, 135 is to hot for him aswell Rios Marquez Katsidis all to good for him, Soto and Juan Diaz he has chances with but I can't see him beating anyone at world title level for me anyway.
i hope he gets in with anyone at world level soon
its a pitty there will be no ortiz fight mind
I like Murray but have been burnt by thinking these undefeated fighters are world class when they are brutally exposed when they get there like Kevin Mitchell and Alex Arthur. (I hope Cleverly does not end the same way.)
Heart and desire will only get you so far.
JMM, Katsidis and Ortiz (although of the three I'd say he is the best chance) would all murder Murray.
I like the guy and love his style, great to watch, but he will be taking a massive jump in his next fight. Even Diaz and co will be a very big step up.
Murray fighting Ortiz would be frightening, he'd probably try to brawl & Ortiz would stop him in 2 or 3 in my book. Kudriatsev caught him with a couple that made him think, so I'd hate to see what a big strong 140lber would do. Even at 135, I just don't see enough to challenge guys like JMM or Katsidis, who I reckon would both do a number on him.
I would really like to see him fight Brandon Rios, that has FOTY all over it, but I'd probably favour Rios. I reckon Soto is winnable, he takes rounds off & if he can look at the gameplan David Diaz took in & try to refine it, that's a 50/50 fight
who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round
he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round
he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level
Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.
AA looks already finished, he may not have been blown away but he sure as hell has not set the world on fire and losing to Cook says it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round
he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level
Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.
i dont think you are giving him anywhere near the credit he deservesQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round
he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level
Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.
he has done everything asked and has never even looked anywhere near loosing