should mayweather continue to be ranked in the top P4P in 2011?

i saw a link to an old saddo article from 2008....

(http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ar-2008-a.html)

it made me laugh and wonder... having fought only twice since 2007....should floyd still be ranked at the top? or can we maybe come up with some kind of P4P Diamond Ranking or some shit? haha....

He should b removed from p4p

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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So what? That doesn't make it right. Makes me sick hearing everywhere about fighters who don't fight but claim to be "active", living from the hype. In Floyd's case it's much worse though.

I know that Dan Rafeal is removing him from his P4P on May 1st. That will be 1 year inactive, at that point i think it's only right. 1 year is a long time to be in the p4p without fighting. In my opinion all p4p list should remove him on May 1st.

I believe that after a one year non injury caused layoff that a fighter should be out. PFP should be for serious active fighters who are looking to prove their greatness. Not part time primma donna's like 'likkle' Floyd Jr.

You can't be ranked if you aren't fighting or at least planning to fight.

Should Mayweather continue to be ranked in the top P4P in 2011?
Gee.... I don't know. But I tend to gravitate toward:




HELL NO

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Originally Posted by miles

I believe that after a one year non injury caused layoff that a fighter should be out. PFP should be for serious active fighters who are looking to prove their greatness. Not part time primma donna's like 'likkle' Floyd Jr.

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I agree with that 12 month cutoff but with the 1 caveat that they dont have an officially scheduled fight soon to happen. And Mayweather doesnt so i'd remove him if he doesnt announce a fight by May 1st

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

Who cares whether or not he appears on some fabled phantom p4p list? It’s a favourite's list and has nothing really to do with pugilistic endeavor in the way it is applied today. Its a bastardized term void of any real meaning. It actually met something when there were only eight divisions. I can’t stand the tool but he still is arguably the best boxer on the planet so removing him from some marketing list means nothing.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

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thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

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thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

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You can't rest on past laurels and expect to keep getting considered p4p. If we're gonna do that.... let's not stop at Mayweather. Let's bring back ANY fighter who's still semi-active and has had a great career. Personally, I'd rather dig a little deeper and find fighters who are FULLY active and leave it all out there for the fans. So what if Marquez's and Vazquez's careers don't quite measure up to Floyd's? For that matter... you can make the point that Sergio's doesn't either (measure up to Floyd's). But who the hell cares? I sure don't. As a fan, give me a Sergio, a Rafa, an Israel ANY day... over the prancing, clowning, inactive Floyd. He's already his OWN biggest fan... but his fan base is surely eroding as he lets time go by without giving the fans what they yearn for..... epic fights. And I do not put Pacquiao in the same category with Floyd. At least Pacquiao FIGHTS. No matter who it is. Pac haters will always find fault with Pac's choice of opponents. It's the nature of the game. But at least Pac FIGHTS.

IMO, Floyd may have been p4p a while back. But he's given up that throne a LONG time ago.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

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thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

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You can't rest on past laurels and expect to keep getting considered p4p. If we're gonna do that.... let's not stop at Mayweather. Let's bring back ANY fighter who's still semi-active and has had a great career. Personally, I'd rather dig a little deeper and find fighters who are FULLY active and leave it all out there for the fans. So what if Marquez's and Vazquez's careers don't quite measure up to Floyd's? For that matter... you can make the point that Sergio's doesn't either (measure up to Floyd's). But who the hell cares? I sure don't. As a fan, give me a Sergio, a Rafa, an Israel ANY day... over the prancing, clowning, inactive Floyd. He's already his OWN biggest fan... but his fan base is surely eroding as he lets time go by without giving the fans what they yearn for..... epic fights. And I do not put Pacquiao in the same category with Floyd. At least Pacquiao FIGHTS. No matter who it is. Pac haters will always find fault with Pac's choice of opponents. It's the nature of the game. But at least Pac FIGHTS.

IMO, Floyd may have been p4p a while back. But he's given up that throne a LONG time ago.

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p4p originally was based on 2 things, skill (at the moment) and accomplishments, neither Marquez or Vazquez measured up to the level Floyd is still at today, you're ranting on about Pac haters but the same can be said about Floyd haters, you don't have to be a fan of the guy to know that still skill-wise he's head and shoulders above anyone under the top 3 guys on the p4p list, either way as the guy before my post said, all the p4p list has become is a flavor of the month club, whoever is most popular at the moment gets on, so take him off all you want, his first fight back against ANYONE and he'll be back at either #1 or #2, you can bet your house on that

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

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There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

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thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

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You can't rest on past laurels and expect to keep getting considered p4p. If we're gonna do that.... let's not stop at Mayweather. Let's bring back ANY fighter who's still semi-active and has had a great career. Personally, I'd rather dig a little deeper and find fighters who are FULLY active and leave it all out there for the fans. So what if Marquez's and Vazquez's careers don't quite measure up to Floyd's? For that matter... you can make the point that Sergio's doesn't either (measure up to Floyd's). But who the hell cares? I sure don't. As a fan, give me a Sergio, a Rafa, an Israel ANY day... over the prancing, clowning, inactive Floyd. He's already his OWN biggest fan... but his fan base is surely eroding as he lets time go by without giving the fans what they yearn for..... epic fights. And I do not put Pacquiao in the same category with Floyd. At least Pacquiao FIGHTS. No matter who it is. Pac haters will always find fault with Pac's choice of opponents. It's the nature of the game. But at least Pac FIGHTS.

IMO, Floyd may have been p4p a while back. But he's given up that throne a LONG time ago.

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p4p originally was based on 2 things, skill (at the moment) and accomplishments, neither Marquez or Vazquez measured up to the level Floyd is still at today, you're ranting on about Pac haters but the same can be said about Floyd haters, you don't have to be a fan of the guy to know that still skill-wise he's head and shoulders above anyone under the top 3 guys on the p4p list, either way as the guy before my post said, all the p4p list has become is a flavor of the month club, whoever is most popular at the moment gets on, so take him off all you want, his first fight back against ANYONE and he'll be back at either #1 or #2, you can bet your house on that

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That may well be true. I just don't feel like waiting another 5 years before finding out.

;)

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

---

There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

;)

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thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

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You can't rest on past laurels and expect to keep getting considered p4p. If we're gonna do that.... let's not stop at Mayweather. Let's bring back ANY fighter who's still semi-active and has had a great career. Personally, I'd rather dig a little deeper and find fighters who are FULLY active and leave it all out there for the fans. So what if Marquez's and Vazquez's careers don't quite measure up to Floyd's? For that matter... you can make the point that Sergio's doesn't either (measure up to Floyd's). But who the hell cares? I sure don't. As a fan, give me a Sergio, a Rafa, an Israel ANY day... over the prancing, clowning, inactive Floyd. He's already his OWN biggest fan... but his fan base is surely eroding as he lets time go by without giving the fans what they yearn for..... epic fights. And I do not put Pacquiao in the same category with Floyd. At least Pacquiao FIGHTS. No matter who it is. Pac haters will always find fault with Pac's choice of opponents. It's the nature of the game. But at least Pac FIGHTS.

IMO, Floyd may have been p4p a while back. But he's given up that throne a LONG time ago.

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p4p originally was based on 2 things, skill (at the moment) and accomplishments, neither Marquez or Vazquez measured up to the level Floyd is still at today, you're ranting on about Pac haters but the same can be said about Floyd haters, you don't have to be a fan of the guy to know that still skill-wise he's head and shoulders above anyone under the top 3 guys on the p4p list, either way as the guy before my post said, all the p4p list has become is a flavor of the month club, whoever is most popular at the moment gets on, so take him off all you want, his first fight back against ANYONE and he'll be back at either #1 or #2, you can bet your house on that

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Good post.

Greb fought middleweights, light heavyweights and heavyweights and his heaviest weight was about 170.

Ketchel fought Johnson.

Langford fought anywhere from 135 to heavyweight. Three years after beating the great lightweight Joe Gans he fought Jack Johnson. Sammy has more ko’s then Tyson and Foreman combined.

When I think p4p, I think of these guys not today’s group of 2 fights a year millionaires, a gazillion belts, HBO, PPV and catch weights. That’s not P4P…it’s a bake sale.

And then theirs the Murderers Row crew?

Holman Williams
Charley Burley
Jack Chase
Cocoa Kid
Lloyd Marshall
Kid Tunero
Eddie Booker
Joe Carter
Bert Lytell
Aaron Wade
Archie Moore

I hate to shit on a boxing term but p4p has no real meaning today. Gans fought Langford a day after Holly. A day.

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao :)

On to this main question, I think it's an interesting but pointless discussion.

Reading people's reasons for dumping Floyd are quite enlightening to me though the reasons I shall now outline.

As Titofan is the most hostile to Floyd keeping his ranking I shall direct my post at him.

First off, you say that Floyd should be taken off to reward other fighters. This is strange. Are you suggesting that you agree Floyd is better, but to show respect for the efforts of more active fighters you want to pretend he's not around and leave him out? That seems a bit corrupt to me. If you think Floyd is one of the ten best fighters on the planet right now, surely he has to be there? He hasn't stated his retirement, and I think universally we all feel he is in the top 10 best living fighters right now, so should be ranked.

You also state that if we are going to keep Floyd in the p4p despite his inactivty then why not bring back all the other inactive fighters who could still be p4p.

I challenge you to name a single fighter who hasn't officially retired who could conceivably be rated in the top 10 who isn't there right now due to inactivty?

There isn't one, and this is the whole point.

If you take Floyd out the rankings, before he officially retires, he becomes the elephant in the room. We all know he's above the rest of those in there, arguably Manny aside and so ommiting him makes the p4p rankins wrong in an absolute sense.

I'm actually broadly in favour with Rafael's idea. If he hasn't announed anything by May 1st then, and only then can he consider being ommited, as a year's inactivty is considerable.

But let's give him another month, and if after he does announce a fight, I'd put him back in again as he clearly is a top 2 fighter by universal agreement.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao :)

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who did the Catchweight favor? Williams and Dzinziruk

at what weight did Sergio Martinez win the LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT championship against the then LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Kelly Pavlik? oh right 160

Pacquiao's last two "titles at different weight classes" have been won at catch weights, so if you really don't even count those two it's 6, tieing DLH which all of a sudden doesn't sound so stellar seeing how no one made that big of a deal when DLH was the only 6 weight class champion in the history of the sport :-\

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao :)

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who did the Catchweight favor? Williams and Dzinziruk

at what weight did Sergio Martinez win the LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT championship against the then LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Kelly Pavlik? oh right 160

Pacquiao's last two "titles at different weight classes" have been won at catch weights, so if you really don't even count those two it's 6, tieing DLH which all of a sudden doesn't sound so stellar seeing how no one made that big of a deal when DLH was the only 6 weight class champion in the history of the sport :-\

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I have no problem with Martinez at all I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies here.

The rest of your post exposes you to more easy criticism though. I'm tempted to go there, highlighting Pavliks devastingly one sided loss to B Hop that had Manny fought a fighter coming off that performace would have been met with derision for example. Or maybe to argue your point that seems to be catchweights are good as long as they don't disadvantage one opponent, and explain to you that Margarito was allowed by Manny to weigh a full 3 lbs more than when Shane Mosley fought him a year before which surely meant the catchweight was to his advantage more than Manny's,

Had Manny fought him at 147 he would have won even easier, but instead he allowed him to gain three pounds more. That says a lot imo.

Anyway, I won't go there. :)

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history? :confused:

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

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Originally Posted by miles

I believe that after a one year non injury caused layoff that a fighter should be out. PFP should be for serious active fighters who are looking to prove their greatness. Not part time primma donna's like 'likkle' Floyd Jr.

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He should be removed.

Winky Wright used to have super long lay offs, and sure enough he got dropped out of the P4P rankings and his own weight class rankings.

Same with Verno Phillips recently.

1 year of inactivity seems to get you dropped out of the rankings. Thats the consensus.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

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PFP is about opinions. I put forth earlier that it was my opinion that a year out with no fight planned = disqualification. He has no reason to be in any list, he is effectively retired.

If Floyd wants a tune up then fair enough, but it isn't enough to catapult him back to the top of any list. You have to beat meaningful opposition to deserve PFP status and not just wins attained however many years ago.

Leonard did indeed come back off of a long layoff, but for those 18 months when there NOTHING happening then he too was effectively retired. Didn't he say as much too?

Hopkins can and does compete, he hasn't retired. He has fought stiff opposition in Pascal, Calzaghe and Pavlik.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao :)

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I noticed the fights at CW's. I also criticised the Williams one in particular, but that was clearly set in place by Williams who was still trying to call the shots. You can't argue with wins over an undefeated fighter, an avoided guy like Williams and a tough big guy like Pavlik. It answers all the questions. It is Manny that has been calling all the shots in his fights and that is what detracts. Generally speaking Martinez doesn't do that and he clearly beat Cintron too.

Martinez has been doing things the way Manny should have been doing all along.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history? :confused:

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

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And since when did you start defending the orange girl? Shame on you, Bilbo!

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history? :confused:

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

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And since when did you start defending the orange girl? Shame on you, Bilbo!

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No defense from me. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say that the boxing world doesn't give Oscar any props for his six world titles at different weights.

The man is feted as a God practically.

Anyway, Manny rules, on this we agree, well on earth at least. The heavens belong to God and Jesus will take over the real p4p when He returns, as we both well know and agree.

Sure an we might as well bring back Sugar Ray Robinson on the top of the list too!

Imo u shouldnt b ranked unless u have made a big impact within the last year or so.

So can we agree that if there's no Mayweather fight announced before may 1st then floyd becomes the #1 P4P fighter in the Inactive But Still Alive catagory... yeah?

(That places Sugar Ray Robinson at the top of the P4P Inactive But Dead catagory.)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history? :confused:

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

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And since when did you start defending the orange girl? Shame on you, Bilbo!

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No defense from me. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say that the boxing world doesn't give Oscar any props for his six world titles at different weights.

The man is feted as a God practically.

Anyway, Manny rules, on this we agree, well on earth at least. The heavens belong to God and Jesus will take over the real p4p when He returns, as we both well know and agree.

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Manny is a modern great and I have reluctantly conceded this on numerous occasions. The man fights and he fights extremely solid opposition. That is a fact. Martinez does too and where you place them on hypothetical p4p lists all boils down to what you favour. I think Martinez has the slightly more spectacular trajectory with no questions asked, but have no issues if others prefer Manny. I think most of us agree that Floyd just bugger off now.

There shouldn't even be a P4P list on active fighters. Ok then, Floyd is inactive so sure put him at the top of the list.

How do you consistently compare fighters from the lower weight-classes and the upper weight-classes? They are so different physically. Compare Naz and Ali and how tell me what criteria you use to "prove" who is the better boxer?

P4P is nonsense turned into a marketing goldmine. The next step is for Ring Magazine to start by giving out a belt and start charging for sanctioned fights. Wait a sec. What? Why Ring Mag? Why not Saddo?

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

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PFP is about opinions. I put forth earlier that it was my opinion that a year out with no fight planned = disqualification. He has no reason to be in any list, he is effectively retired.

If Floyd wants a tune up then fair enough, but it isn't enough to catapult him back to the top of any list. You have to beat meaningful opposition to deserve PFP status and not just wins attained however many years ago.

Leonard did indeed come back off of a long layoff, but for those 18 months when there NOTHING happening then he too was effectively retired. Didn't he say as much too?

Hopkins can and does compete, he hasn't retired. He has fought stiff opposition in Pascal, Calzaghe and Pavlik.

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Thanks for clarifying that. Its a crock. A popularity contest with no basis in fact. Its a buzz word like you see in power point presentations.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

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PFP is about opinions. I put forth earlier that it was my opinion that a year out with no fight planned = disqualification. He has no reason to be in any list, he is effectively retired.

If Floyd wants a tune up then fair enough, but it isn't enough to catapult him back to the top of any list. You have to beat meaningful opposition to deserve PFP status and not just wins attained however many years ago.

Leonard did indeed come back off of a long layoff, but for those 18 months when there NOTHING happening then he too was effectively retired. Didn't he say as much too?

Hopkins can and does compete, he hasn't retired. He has fought stiff opposition in Pascal, Calzaghe and Pavlik.

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Thanks for clarifying that. Its a crock. A popularity contest with no basis in fact. Its a buzz word like you see in power point presentations.

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I think we basically agree on this really. I rarely get into those kinds of threads where people are positing endless lists of P4P fighters and arguing back and forth on it. I do believe that inactivity should automoatically exclude a fighter from such lists and I do believe it quite sensible to come to relatively sane conclusions concerning who the top fighters are, but coming up with long lists and debating it is beyond me. I just don't care enough about that really. Yeah, to a large extent I think it probably is about people going on what they like and that is what the Manny/Floyd debate is often about. I think it is a very valid argument to dismiss a fighter who doesn't fight though and I think that is a very simple argument to make and Floyd is what this thread is all about.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

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PFP is about opinions. I put forth earlier that it was my opinion that a year out with no fight planned = disqualification. He has no reason to be in any list, he is effectively retired.

If Floyd wants a tune up then fair enough, but it isn't enough to catapult him back to the top of any list. You have to beat meaningful opposition to deserve PFP status and not just wins attained however many years ago.

Leonard did indeed come back off of a long layoff, but for those 18 months when there NOTHING happening then he too was effectively retired. Didn't he say as much too?

Hopkins can and does compete, he hasn't retired. He has fought stiff opposition in Pascal, Calzaghe and Pavlik.

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Thanks for clarifying that. Its a crock. A popularity contest with no basis in fact. Its a buzz word like you see in power point presentations.

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I think we basically agree on this really. I rarely get into those kinds of threads where people are positing endless lists of P4P fighters and arguing back and forth on it. I do believe that inactivity should automoatically exclude a fighter from such lists and I do believe it quite sensible to come to relatively sane conclusions concerning who the top fighters are, but coming up with long lists and debating it is beyond me. I just don't care enough about that really. Yeah, to a large extent I think it probably is about people going on what they like and that is what the Manny/Floyd debate is often about. I think it is a very valid argument to dismiss a fighter who doesn't fight though and I think that is a very simple argument to make and Floyd is what this thread is all about.

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Fair enough. I suppose it makes a great deal to Floyd to be removed from this list. Like Leonard coming off a 3 year retirement to fight Hagler.

He'd do better to concentrate of being ranked top of his division. If Mosley pulls off a tko win vs Manny why can I actually see Mayweather never fighting again and resting on 'well, I beat Shane' ???

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

He'd do better to concentrate of being ranked top of his division. If Mosley pulls off a tko win vs Manny why can I actually see Mayweather never fighting again and resting on 'well, I beat Shane' ???

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He's actually the lineal champion of everything but Ring Magazine for some reason. Ring has some odd attitudes towards lineage, that aren't replicated elsewhere.

Anyway, that aside, he should be removed if it's a year without fighting, but if he doesn't it's not the end of the world. The Pound for Pound is hardly definitive. What I wonder is if he were to sign to fight Pacquiao two weeks after Pac beats Mosley, do we then say ok he's back at #2?

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

He'd do better to concentrate of being ranked top of his division. If Mosley pulls off a tko win vs Manny why can I actually see Mayweather never fighting again and resting on 'well, I beat Shane' ???

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He's actually the lineal champion of everything but Ring Magazine for some reason. Ring has some odd attitudes towards lineage, that aren't replicated elsewhere.

Anyway, that aside, he should be removed if it's a year without fighting, but if he doesn't it's not the end of the world. The Pound for Pound is hardly definitive. What I wonder is if he were to sign to fight Pacquiao two weeks after Pac beats Mosley, do we then say ok he's back at #2?

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Agree yeh. No fight, no rank, simple as. The only reason he fought JMM was to clamor and retake the p4p spot after hiatus. I wouldn't no...not until he fights. p4p has become another unneeded watered down division.

Marvin Hagler only fought about once per year from '85 to '87 and was still recognized as the best fighter in the sport. So Floyd is effectively fighting once per year now, if he doesn't return and fight again this year, you can remove him. But I have a feeling a showdown with Pac may materialize in the fall.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Marvin Hagler only fought about once per year from '85 to '87 and was still recognized as the best fighter in the sport. So Floyd is effectively fighting once per year now, if he doesn't return and fight again this year, you can remove him. But I have a feeling a showdown with Pac may materialize in the fall.

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This is my thinking. If I were the Ring board I would be smart and say that they're treating Mayweather's legal issues (which run from last September to this month) as they did Izzy & Rafa's injuries & give him a 3-6 month extension. That way if he does sign to fight Pacquiao in September/November, then they're covered. If he doesn't then drop him. It means that they don't have to parachute him back in afterwards & we get a Ring champion rather than acting like Andre Berto is the 2nd best 147lber in the world.