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I've been watching Money since he first turn pro. To me Floyd is on a very short list of the P4P all time greats. He is the greatest fighter I've seen since Ray Leonard. He has beat everyone they put in front of him. If fact it was years before Money even loss a round. To me he is up there with Ray Robinson as a all time great. If I'm wrong please tell me. I respect everyone views so let's hear it.
When you see someone who claims that Mayweather is not an ATG, or that he's not in the top 20 p4p of all time, you can remember their names and then when you see them posting in a thread you can save your time and skip over it, because they'll have nothing insightful to say about anything boxing related.
Floyd can make so many adjustments.
I felt his punches werent as accurate but you can credit maidana for that.
Floyd chose to exchange and the headbutt lost him a couple of rds but imo it was still a close fight.
Floyd still has 3 fights left to cement his legacy
Floyd IS an all time great... was an all time great by the time he beat DLH.... that is undisputable.
Floyd has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, left to prove in this game other than give us, the fans, awkward fights for us to see him do his thing.
Sad boxing isn't like other sports- sports where you don't get hit in the head with a glove, that really feels like a loaded bean-bag, at about 15 mph.
No, Mayweather's not all All-Time Great.
He's a very good defensive boxer, but not a Great fighter.
One of the most well-schooled nowadays.
Too many top guys that he didn't fight, or didn't fight in their prime.
He always stacked the deck in every way imaginable.
An All-Time Great should have Great takedown defense, and Mayweather certainly doesn't have that as evidenced by how easily Maidana tackled him and took him down so easily in the 11th rd last night, and Floyd doesn't know how to breakfall properly either, breakfall to protect oneself. Yep, Rousey by armbar if that fight ever happened...
He's a first ballot Hall of Fame fighter.
Without a doubt. He's beaten the likes of Hatton, Judah, Corrales, Marquez, Cotto, Canelo, Genaro, and Guerrero.
If he beats the Thurman-Porter winner, Lara if he beats Canelo, and the winner of Cotto-Martinez, he'll be a top 20 ATG.
He's definitely an ATG but on the bottom of the list near Whitaker...
He's clearly below the likes of Leonard and Duran..
LOL, only then eh? Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
1. Sugar Ray RobinsonQuote:
Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Manny Pacquiao
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes
I think if mayweather is not rated as an all time great then it's impossible to be rated as an atg in this generation... Not sure what else he can do, he's 37 and still beating guys who gain 18.5 pounds after the weigh in whilst floyd is only gaining 2.. It was a tough fight for sure but I dont think it can be branded as a robbery at all.. He has a great record and even though he is small for a welterweight he even went up to 154(well 152 really :S) and beat the highly rated/hyped, young and huge alvarez.. Mayweather is top class and still going great.. Maybe he didn't get every huge fight made but it does take a lot of people to make the fights not just the fighters, with all the promoter and management nonsense I think floyds done fine with the guys he's taken on....
I don't know enough about boxing history to say where he would rank but he has looked pretty great to me, just my opinion though
I would have liked to see him against
Winky
Williams
Pacquiao
But he's beaten the man and the next man at 130(Hernandez, Corrales)
Beat the man at 135(Castillo)
Beat the man mutiple times at 147(Baldi, Shane)
Beat the man multiple times at 154(Cotto, Alvarez, DLH)
When you are champ from 1998-2014 some guys arre going to come and go without meeting. But he might be the all time record holder for beating reigning major title holders.(not sure about that but it's got to be close if not)
Thing is boxing fans are like poker players, they remember the negatives. A poker player remembers the bad beats, a boxing fan only thinks of the fights we didn't get. After a poker player retires they remember the wins. After a boxer retires we miss them and appreciate the good. I absolutely hated Leonard for beating all my favorites. Over time he's one of the fighters I respect the most. I wonder how many on here have been following long enough to remember Leonard was a "ducker" until he retired. It's f'n preposterous looking back but at the time...
Floyd is an all time great. Is he the GOAT, hell no. But truth is nobody is the GOAT. Some guys beat other guys, and some wouldn't beat others. If you mixed and matched everyone losess to someone and more likely multiple guys. Beating someone doesn't even make you better head to head. Don't believe me? Who's better Pep or Sadler?
What is this some sort of sick joke?
Floyd is not only an ATG but one of the greatest there's ever been in this sport. Beyond any real doubt.
Of course, great list. Mayweather's opposition could never compare to the opposition of those guys LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Bradlee come on man... All those guys rank better than Money lb for lb ATG???
You gotta be joking!!!
Had you wanted to promote someone like Ray Robinson based on his record or Ray Leonard on his talent I can respect that but a lot of that list is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Floyd is not & never will be one of the ATG's. The reason for this is totally his own fault.
He has the natural God Given talent to be an ATG but lacks the heart & cojones of a real champion. He has cherry picked his opponents , blatantly ducking those considered dangerous. He ha made demands on all opponents he has forced them to come to his home town , Vegas he wont attempt to fight anywhere else. He knows all he has to do is be standing at the final bell & he wins in Vegas.
The sad part is that if Floyd had faced Paquaio, Margarito, Cotto, Williams etc when he should have he could well have beaten them all. Then maybe he would really be the ATG he self proclaims to be. But he didn't so Floyd will always be nothing more than a very talented wanna beee. What a waste of incredible talent
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
It's incredible to me that someone could actually believe that. Unreal.
Lol Bradlee put Pac over Leonard what a fucking nut huger you are dude. Pac lost in his early days and also never beat Jmm convincingly ever then got koed by a 40 year old version. If you don't list Mayweather then Pac is not a atg either there both in top 20 i have Mayweather above Pac don't even like him and have him ahead. Mayweather had a few close fights in his career one at the start one when he was 37 but you could make a argument that he won them. Pac move up was pretty much him beating the guys Mayweather already did and making them cut more weight to have advantage. He lost to a ageing Morales who was coming off a loss why did Pac not fight the man who outboxed Morales. 135 he beat diaz big fucking deal, and then there was 154 he beat Margarito who just came off the worst ass beating ever i mean come on dude. Pac beast wins are Barrea, Morles and Jmm who he was gifted he not even the best fighter in the past 25 years like you said earlier i say Lewis was higher then him. Look i know you fucking hate Mayweather and all but for fuck sake try to have some fucking knowledge besides being a fan of one guy.
Floyd will probably be considered an ATG because of how long he's held the public's attention. Being such a polarizing figure in the world of boxing for so long, he's played it right. 50 years from now there will be very little discussion of his opposition or anything of that nature. We know this because in a historical lens there are fewer and fewer historians amongst us in the boxing world. You see a much more common Rocky Marciano as the undefeated fighter as opposed to who did Rocky Marciano fight? Was his opposition faded? Sugar Ray Robinson won 170ish fights, what were his signature victories?
History favors the news makers and that's something Floyd has done his entire career.
Personally I don't discount Floyd's record, he has some very good wins over respectable opponents. Could he have taken more risks? Sure, but in this era it has been shown that the money goes to those that manage their careers, rather than those who fight all the best challenges. Take for instance Cotto, he has done well but he will never earn the money or have the ongoing discussion about him that Mayweather does. Consistently over the last decade only two boxers have had their names plastered in the headlines Pacquiao and Mayweather.
At the end of the day, I am skeptical about any ATG or P4P list, as they all opinion and ignore the differences in eras.
yes, without a doubt. it just depends where you rank him among the ATG's.
Of course Floyd is an ATG.
you had me thinking that you knew what you were talking about until 1)you put pac at #9 which is a red flag that you are a huge pac fan which means you hate floyd. even if somehow you ranked pac above floyd, there is no way to justify ranking him that much higher, and 2)there are names on your list i believe you are just naming because you have just heard they were good. for example, im a huge ike williams fan but he isnt even a top 5 lightweight of all time let alone better than floyd. and sanchez died at the age of 23 (i think), and yes he had good wins but didnt have a long enough career, enough signature wins or even look as good as floyd to claim that he was better. there are some others on your list that i could dispute too but it would be way too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
I reckon! Now what a moron! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
It's incredible to me that someone could actually believe that. Unreal.
I almost cannot believe some of the crap I am reading on this thread, the belittling of Floyd is disgraceful, I don't like the guy, I've said that plenty of times but to say he isn't an ATG is saddening and laughable.
I'm shocked. Shame on Bradlee! lol
@Beanflicker - I don't think you should be too surprised that there people who view Mayweather's accomplishments as not quite at the same level as you might view them. There's no doubt he is a first ballot inductee to the Hall of Fame. There's also no doubt that in the last 25 years he is one of the top three boxers to fight. There's an aura, however, about some of historical fighters that eludes Mayweather.
Take Duran. Duran started out as a lightweight, moved on to welterweight, middleweight and then super middleweight. He fought Hagler, Hearns and Barkley at middleweight. I don't rate Martinez/GGG on the level of Hagler at middleweight, but it would be the equivalent of Mayweather moving up to middleweight and facing that type of competition. Keep in mind Duran was only 5'7. Those are risky fights for a guy his size. That kind of risk-taking endeared him to boxing fans and boxing historians. There is the impression that Mayweather hasn't taken those type of risks. He also isn't retired yet so let's withhold judgment.
Take Harry Greb too. I wrote a long post in another thread briefly explaining Greb's greatness that I'm not sure you had a chance to respond to. You'll see that in one year, not even his best year, he fought 4 future Hall of Famers when they were on their game, not post-prime, and 10 other title holder- level opponents. That's outright crazy. Times are different now, but still.
How many guys on Mayweather's CV will make the Hall of Fame and did Mayweather face them at their best? The Hall of Fame measure is subjective, but we can use it as a gauge.
Also, at this point, who would you say is Mayweather's signature victory when he was on top his game and the guy on the other side of the ring was on top of his game? Duran's Leonard. Tunney's Dempsey. etc. How would you compare that victory to the best victory of the greats?
Just so we're clear, throughout 2007-2011, there was this phenomenon that you either were a fan of Mayweather or Pacquiao, but not both. I don't subscribe to that idea. I like both guys. In my opinion, they're both greats.
Gayweather is a over priced prima donnas.... He prances around nobodies and hand picks these shop bought to suit....he is boring to watch and I can't remember the last time I did not fall a sleep watching this crock of rubbish....he's a big baby who spits his dummy when he cant get his own way😤
All Time Great....don't be ridiculous.... How old are you 12?
Job Biscuit (put that in Yer pipe and smoke it)!!!
eh eh!!
Ya hit the nail right on the head...Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
To have Manny #9 all time is a joke. I don't think he ever beat JMM. Floyd took JMM to school. I had the fight 9-3. I'm not saying Manny is not great. I am saying that Manny at his very best could never beat Money at his best. If fact JMM said the same thing, and he should know.
i agree with your reply but i would say that de la hoya was mayweathers defining victory. that was really when he went from a super talented fighter that people heard about to a superstar. its debatable how impressive the victory was but i would say that it was his most defining victory and i would consider it a very good win at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Considering which posters are arguing against the case, it's pretty hard to do anything but chuckle at their trolling or wonder how anyone is that dumb. It IS a completely absurd question to ask though. If Floyd loses a fight will we be debating whether he's among the 10 best fighters since 2003? Like get fucking real some of you. Where you rank him relative to anyone else is fine to argue over, but whether he is an ATG period? Just :vd:
I'm sorry but Floyd Mayweather Jr. not an ATG is beyond reason. He is scum.. But that's one talented and brilliant piece of scum lol.
I think he is one and of all boxers in all eras he is without doubt The all time greatest richest stinking poser too,but that could be a play too, so could his victory speech on Sunday be a play to bolster respect in his final few fights by turning somewhat humble towards his rivals. But since my doubts about him surviving a war have been put to rest a couple of times and I've also seen him dissolve all the skills of my favorite modern day fighter JMM,you know the rest I wont go on.You can say he has ducked a few or maneuvered his road to greatness,They all do it. I dont care because (including Kostya who is my other favorite modern day fighter next to Roy); None of the people who his haters think he has ducked haven't maneuvered their own careers and they also havent achieved the same heights as Floyd.Floyds been given the nod in a close one too that I think he just lost, but he got that back for real no problem anyway.Kostya is the one who Im not sure he would of got past in that small time slot when he jumped 140 more because of Floyds troublesome hands and I didnt know how sturdy his chin actually was until recently.
I think he could of spoiled his way to a win by bending in the wind cause he wasnt going to be Ko-ing KT no way.
Great Post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Mayweather will go down in the record books as the most "calculated" boxer in the history of the sport both in and out of the ring, unless he ends up blowing his money.
Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.
He avoided:
prime Cotto
prime Mosley
prime De La Hoya
Kostya Tszyu
Vernon Forrest
Paul Williams
Antonio Margarito
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd decided to "retire" when the welterweight division was at it's best in 2007-2009 with Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Mosley, etc.
[QUOTE=Freedom;1243763]Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.
He avoided:
prime Cotto(Floyd said he wanted. 10 mill and it was on, Bob said no. It's in Dan Rafaels archives. Bob said the money wasn't there so Floyd faught him when Bob was out of the picture for 40 million. Really think about what Bob said and what happened and who was the hindrance)
prime Mosley(Floyd offered Shane 8 million to fight Shane said he had a toothache err needed a vacation and turned around and fought one month later for less than 2 million. Who was the hindance there)
prime De La Hoya(Floyd from the beginning of his career always begged for this fight)
Kostya Tszyu(tough to make with HBO/Showtime issue, neither was big enough then to force a collaboration)
Vernon Forrest(never in same division)
Paul Williams(okay, I'll give you this one although I think PWs rise in the WW division and departure from happened while Floyd was gone but I'm not sure)
Antonio Margarito(hahaha but for the record see Cotto, Floyd gave Bob an amount and Bob said no. Same Dan Rafael archive can prove it)
Manny Pacquiao(Floyd agreed and Pac backed out. Both of these two are to blame over this fiasco but you can never take away the fact that the fight was once on and Floyd was good to go at the exact time the fight was right Floyd was in. That's not opinion that's a fact)
[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;1243770]I disagree with the avoided concept for Floyd's career. It's more accurate to describe it as missed. Avoided implies it was all Floyd's fault, which it might have been with some of the opponents, but it wasn't with all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Floyd missed everyone on that list though for one reason or the other.
I'm not sure why the reason isn't pretty obvious: He's had Bob Arum or Al Haymon guiding his career at all times. They've done a terrific job. How many famous boxers die penniless? Floyd's the richest athlete in the world and he has no endorsements in a niche sport. That's crazy talk.
Richest athlete in the world doesn't mean much.
Mike Tyson and Holyfield are broke, lost it all, and they had endorsements on top of massive ring-earnings. And Mayweather has already had his tax issues on a couple of occasions. Tyson grossed about 350 million in purses alone.
And the same applies to many NFL and NBA athletes too.
It turns out that child-support payments breaks many athletes, often an athlete paying 5 or more women because he was poking everything that moved!
Holyfield with 12 kids by 6 women, ahah hah! :doggy: