prime for prime---- how does this go? Does Evander beat him like he beat Foreman? Does Klit pound him down like Bowe did?
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prime for prime---- how does this go? Does Evander beat him like he beat Foreman? Does Klit pound him down like Bowe did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It is hard to say, with Holyfield you could argue that his prime was at cruiser. I mean he was CW until near 30.
I believe Wlad could control him with that hellsh jab and the size difference would show.
Likely Wlad on UD as Holyfield didn't have a massive punch, his power was decent though but Wlad never gets hit anyway.
I think Wlad would control him like Lennox did.
fought withing the rules hollyfield woulod win
fought in germany under the usual wlad fight conditions wlad would hold on for 12 rounds and get the decision
Including headbutts?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I wonder if either of them fought without the use of steroids or PEDs in their entire career? It'd be interesting to know.
Two great fighters, but two great lab experiments also.
Proof of Wlad using PEDS?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...1759805229.jpg
This is not how 40 year old men look, especially 40 year old men that are doing heavy cardio everyday.
No... just, no.
The "awww just look at him" is a very weak argument....what do you want him to have a pot belly? Would that be ok? How unmuscular should Wlad look in order for you to feel ok with his performances?
Need I remind you that James Toney was popped for PEDs and he looked EXACTLY like a fat old man....so your "just look" theory has it's holes
Yeah I've seen fat guys test positive for PEDs, I've seen guys skinny as a rake test positive for PEDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But when I see a professional athlete looking better at 40 than he did in his 20s, and I know that said athlete isn't being properly drug tests, ehhhh nope. Sorry, I don't buy it. Guys get worn down, they lose muscle mass and their recovery takes much longer.
The Germans have been on the cutting edge of steroids and PEDs longer than any country.
Again though, I'm not convicting him in a court of law. I get all the "innocent until proven guilty" thing (although that's IMPOSSIBLE to prove, guys have argued their way out of positive tests, steroid receipts, ect).
But do I believe that Wlad looks that way at 40 naturally? Fuck no. Dude is injecting testosterone, I'd bet my house on it.
Fan of both guys but consider & logic dictates that Wvlad would use height and reach to play it safe and drape himself over Evander whenever he got close and I can see that scenario playing out. However you have to consider that as good as Wvlad is when he is on top, he does crumble under pressure and it would take a good, perhaps dirty infighter to rough Wvlad up, break his composure and take him out of his comfort zone to see if he drowns or swims. History tells us he generally drowns in that situation. Sam Peter being the exception.
Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe were good big men who had decent left hands but they struggled to keep Evander from swarming them. They both had good inside games too to deal with Evander up close but Klitschko doesn’t. Ive rarely, if ever seen him letting his hands go with combinations when a guy is on his chest. Instead he looks to clinch, wrestle and looks fearful at anything coming at him.The way Evander uses his heads opponents didn’t wana let him get up close so this would really knock Wvlad off his gameplan if he couldn’t smother the real deal.
Lets not forget what a great fighter prime Evander was. He was a machine. May not have had 1 punch KO power but he could definitely trouble Wvald who has been floored by lesser men as evidenced when he dropped Bowe or stopped the thick necked Tyson. His pace is another problem for Wvladmir who is known to gas when under pressure. The relentless pace Holyfield puts on him is a far cry from the plodding pcae he is use to against guys like Alex Lepai. You can make a case for either guy winning but prime for prime I don’t think Wvlads ever been in the ring with anyone quite like a prime Holyfield and I don’t think it would end well for him if he did.
I think the Holyfield that fought Bowe the first time may be able to beat Wlad. Holyfield would walk through the jab and get inside with some hooks and combinations. Wlad would survive to see the decision as Holyfield was not a big puncher but he would tire Wlad out. I can not see Wlad control Evander with a jab throughout the fight.
Definitely a gray area. We can speculate, but facts are facts: He has never tested positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYeah I've seen fat guys test positive for PEDs, I've seen guys skinny as a rake test positive for PEDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But when I see a professional athlete looking better at 40 than he did in his 20s, and I know that said athlete isn't being properly drug tests, ehhhh nope. Sorry, I don't buy it. Guys get worn down, they lose muscle mass and their recovery takes much longer.
The Germans have been on the cutting edge of steroids and PEDs longer than any country.
Switching up a bit. I think of someone like Roy Jones Jr. a lot smaller but was really ripped. As in ripped fuel?:o
Even factoring in that he had to lose muscle to go back down to LHW, it didn't mean he would become a fat body or a skinny dude.
Point: When I see RJJ today, I see a guy whose body is that of a plus 40 year old guy. It would seem that Wlad at some point would succumb to father time. I could see him being buffed, but not ripped past age 40. Similar to RJJ.
But maybe Wlad is constantly lifting weights maintaining his physique.
For the record- A prime Holy would have taken the fight to Wlad. Wlad doesent have that rage to brawl like Bowe did..or Lennox could.
Takes more than that. Cardio eats away at muscle, especially at 40 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Not testing positive really doesn't mean anything to me, because standard drug testing is useless. Lance Armstrong never tested positive either.
Like I said, I can't convict him in a court of law, that's fine, but I know he's using, like most other athletes.
I honestly think Holyfield gets under Wlads jab and chews him up on the inside. Holyfield was deceptively physical for his size and Wlad has many many dead spots inside where all the hugging and falling mauling would leave him in even more vulnerable spots with Holyfields hand speed and counter punching in there. Wlad has a one dimensional temperament in large part, looks to tame you down and control at room temperature pace and he's never seen the edge and tenacity that Evander would put in.
I'd have to go with Klit, although I can definitely see Holyfield slipping his jab and roughing him up on the inside a couple times, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
In the end, it would likely be Wlad by UD but holyfield would have some very quality moments.
I think that ever pro in this sport is taking something so i do not really care because it is pretty even playing feild as i see it. As for this fight i would take Holyfeild by his pace and inside fighting would have love to see the fight and Holyfeild be a underdog in bettin meaning he would win it all.
very true big kabongsQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongIncluding headbutts?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I think this would be a good fight. We all know Wlad is an intelligent, pretty masterful guy at sticking to a game plan. He's a good fast puncher too and uses his height and weight very well.
Holyfield would not be at all bothered about his size, he went toe to toe with prime Bowe, who I rate as at least as good as Wlad (for a short time)
This could end up as a UD for Wlad, keeping the fight at a distance, dominating behind the jab and catching Holyfield as he comes in, then leaning on him and tying him up.
However, I think Evander brings more desire and intensity than anyone Wlad has fought so far. He could keep up a relentless pace over the full fight - perhaps because of all the steroids he took - he has a rock solid chin and good skills. I think he is the aggressor, he refuses to be tied up inside and throws punches and head butts all night long. I see him making Wlad question his chin and get a bit panicky backing up, eventually stopping him in the late rounds when the ref rescues a helpless Wlad on the ropes
Holyfield
As everyone else said this goes one of two ways wlad by ud or holly gets to wlad and grinds him out in the later stages of the figh. It'd be a pick em for me