Was a young Robin Reid better than George Groves?

[ross]

Bika, Froch, Abraham and Kessler would probably beat Reid too

[Silkeyjoe]

Id actually be very surprised if Groves didnt beat Abraham. I think he would stop him.

Bika would be a good fight and he would have a great chance to beat him but if I was Groves I wouldnt be taking that fight. Froch he could beat in a 3rd fight but doubt he gets the shot and by the time he earns it Froch should be retired. Thats all the champs and hed have a good chance in all of them.

Ward is clearly the best in the div and I think Groves style would make this close, I could see Groves taking the early rounds with Ward coming on strong at the end possibly stopping Groves or winning a close decision.

Apart from the above you have Degale and Callum Smith (who I think are the next best in the div after the champs, Ward and Groves). Smith isnt gonna get a look in as is far to dangerous. Degale is a pickem fight for me.

Then you have Chavez, Stieglitz, Rodriguez, Oosthuizen, Love, Dirrell and Periban abd I think Groves is head and shoulders above these guys bar maybe Chavez depending how he looks at the weight. Judging by the 1st Vera fight he aint up to much. I class a prime Reid in with this guys.

[rodneyaries]

Second best to Andre Ward who could probably beat Joe Calzaghe please stop making this stuff up.

"Possibly" is close to the reality. Joe always found a way to win when things werent going his way.
Cold hearted, and "never lose" attitude sums of Joe.

Eubank himself said that those "slaps" were hurtful.

[Dark Lord Al]

Reid was lucky to be champ, Groves could have beaten Nardiello and I doubt Reid would have beaten Froch.

Lucky?

He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.

So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.

Groves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.

He's not a world class fighter!?

He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!

He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.

He also won a medal at the olympics.

All by luck?

No he's not world class...

As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.

The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?


Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.

Notice the way you say won the title in Italy but not name the fighter? It was Nardiello who was shite look at his record - Groves would beat him.

The reason why he had a good fight with Calzaghe was because Joe was struggling with injury. Joe fought Rick Thornberry and David Starie (the most boring fight ever) to points after the Reid fight ti illustrate how poor Joe was at that time.

Ottke was a joke champion.

Reid lost to Malinga and Branca at his best. They were jokers at the world class level.

To be far styles make fights ,Thulani Malinga took a prime Benn to a questionable decision , and then beat Benn so he was no joker.

[Master]

Reid was lucky to be champ, Groves could have beaten Nardiello and I doubt Reid would have beaten Froch.

Lucky?

He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.

So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.

Groves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.

He's not a world class fighter!?

He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!

He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.

He also won a medal at the olympics.

All by luck?

No he's not world class...

As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.

The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?


Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.

Notice the way you say won the title in Italy but not name the fighter? It was Nardiello who was shite look at his record - Groves would beat him.

The reason why he had a good fight with Calzaghe was because Joe was struggling with injury. Joe fought Rick Thornberry and David Starie (the most boring fight ever) to points after the Reid fight ti illustrate how poor Joe was at that time.

Ottke was a joke champion.

Reid lost to Malinga and Branca at his best. They were jokers at the world class level.

To be far styles make fights ,Thulani Malinga took a prime Benn to a questionable decision , and then beat Benn so he was no joker.

True about styles but remember the Malinga v Nardiella fight that was awful.

[AdamGB]

Froch KO'd Reid, not in his 'prime', but I think he stops any version.

Marciano KO'd Joe Louis, Holmes stopped Ali.

Two guys who aren't Robin Reid got beat by fighters they would likely have beaten had they fought years earlier... What's your point?

I don't think Marciano or Holmes would get a W if they faced either of those guys in their primes, I do think Froch would beat Reid, maybe not as heavily...

Do you have anything productive to discuss with me, or are you going to grasp at more vague parallels to make another nonpoint.

[ross]

Froch KO'd Reid, not in his 'prime', but I think he stops any version.

Marciano KO'd Joe Louis, Holmes stopped Ali.

Two guys who aren't Robin Reid got beat by fighters they would likely have beaten had they fought years earlier... What's your point?

I don't think Marciano or Holmes would get a W if they faced either of those guys in their primes, I do think Froch would beat Reid, maybe not as heavily...

Do you have anything productive to discuss with me, or are you going to grasp at more vague parallels to make another nonpoint.

You have no idea.

You point out that Froch in his prime beat Reid who was well outside of his is the same as as those other foghters getting beaten.

People discount Calzaghes win over Eubank just the same.

[AdamGB]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

[ross]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

[Master]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

[ross]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid?

What world champions has he beaten?

In fact, how many world championship fights has he had and how many has he won?

[Master]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid?

What world champions has he beaten?

In fact, how many world championship fights has he had and how many has he won?

Groves will have fought plenty of world champions when his career is finished and I bet he will pick up a title against Abraham if he wanted.

[ross]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.

Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid?

What world champions has he beaten?

In fact, how many world championship fights has he had and how many has he won?

Groves will have fought plenty of world champions when his career is finished and I bet he will pick up a title against Abraham if he wanted.

Yes, probably as a habitual challenger

[AdamGB]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

Relevant to what exactly? I replied directly to Master because I wasn't sure if he knew the two had met, that's it. I can't simplify it for you any more, I wish I could!...

If I was trying to make more of it than that then I wouldn't have went out of my way to point out that Reid was old at the time would I?!

Jesus... Only you would get excited over and try to dissect such a simple post...

[Master]

Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.

That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?

You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.

Relevant to what exactly? I replied directly to Master because I wasn't sure if he knew the two had met, that's it. I can't simplify it for you any more, I wish I could!...

If I was trying to make more of it than that then I wouldn't have went out of my way to point out that Reid was old at the time would I?!

Jesus... Only you would get excited over and try to dissect such a simple post...

I have to agree Ross, I am seeing a whole new side of you. I had forgotten Froch had fought Reid must have been some crazy come back from Reid.