Steve Collins vs Roy jones jr

[IamInuit]

Imo somewhere in the mid 80’s the idea of risk and reward began to change and I think Leonard pushed it off the plank when he came out of a 3 year hiatus and beat Hagler. Star power and the money derived from it for all concerned became more important then real legacy or taking the risk to get the reward. No need to. They then added PPV and boxing has been eroding ever since.

Collins, Eubank, Benn and Watson were Britain's Duran, Leonard, Hagler and Hearns and like them, they all fought each other save Watson/Collins and no doubt made millions. I’m not British but I cannot recall a better era of British boxing.

People keep saying Roy fought a bunch of tradesman well enlighten me on who he could have fought and why he never fought them.

[ross]

He could have fought all of them.

Does it matter when they fought? Collins has 2 wins over Benn after Benn retired. Why wasn't Jones trying to lure them out of retirement or tryi g to get those names on his record?

And here we go again with the "why should he". THe should have because he could have and now people don't regard him as high as he could have been.

Benn fought everyone and travelled. Eubank went to Germany and beat the undefeated Rochigiani.

[imp]

He could have fought all of them.

Does it matter when they fought? Collins has 2 wins over Benn after Benn retired. Why wasn't Jones trying to lure them out of retirement or tryi g to get those names on his record?

And here we go again with the "why should he". THe should have because he could have and now people don't regard him as high as he could have been.

Benn fought everyone and travelled. Eubank went to Germany and beat the undefeated Rochigiani.

Both eubank and benn mentioned from there own mouths they wouldnt be able to hang with jones.

Benn and eubank are british legends but please dont get it twisted.

Look how easy jones made hopkins and toney look..no one has ever done that against them.

[IamInuit]

That is where you are wrong. And they could have fought him. Explain to me how Roy is to blame at 160 for Benn and Watson or 168 for all four? They are all to blame and Roy held all the cards. You want to beat the man then go to his house and do it. Venue cannot be relevant and not relevant at the same time depending on which side you are on.

[Spicoli]

Imo somewhere in the mid 80’s the idea of risk and reward began to change and I think Leonard pushed it off the plank when he came out of a 3 year hiatus and beat Hagler. Star power and the money derived from it for all concerned became more important then real legacy or taking the risk to get the reward. No need to. They then added PPV and boxing has been eroding ever since.

Collins, Eubank, Benn and Watson were Britain's Duran, Leonard, Hagler and Hearns and like them, they all fought each other save Watson/Collins and no doubt made millions. I’m not British but I cannot recall a better era of British boxing.

People keep saying Roy fought a bunch of tradesman well enlighten me on who he could have fought and why he never fought them.

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

[IamInuit]

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.

[Spicoli]

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.

No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.

[ross]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

[imp]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

Lol..so blinded.

I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..

From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.

[ross]

Thats it. Jones had 2 decent wins over Hopkins and Toney then had a very mediocre run for ages before he fought Ruiz.

He beat Eric Lucas and Clinton Woods and some other journeymen but he could have had great fights with THE names that were around like Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, michalczewski, Liles. He could have been the one to move up and show Holyfield up but he thought Holyfield hit too hard and went for Ruiz.

Lol..so blinded.

I would like to see benn, eubank, collins and calzaghe move up and deal with that ruiz..

From middle to heavyweight..that alone shows what risks Rjj took to make history.

Depends on whether he did that jump clean eh...

[ruthless rocco]

looking closely at roy's record i've noticed that he often fought guys who had lost in the recent bouts. examples of this are his fights against
tony thornton(lost to toney)
eric lucas(lost to tiozzo)
mike mccallum(lost to tiozzo)
virgil hill(lost to michalczewski)


...and many of his opponents had also recently been fighting guys with questionable records like these
22-8-1
17-14-1
12-12-2
11-23-8
9-4-0
2-3-0
which begs the question of how they got ranked let alone given top contender status.

[IamInuit]

Well Benn was a fellow reigning champ with huge exposure on Showtime over in America and Eubanks was ranked in top ten thru his spr middle reign. Hey, its a start

I'll give all four something I can't give Roy...respects for at least leaving the comforts of eachs backyard and in Benns, Eubanks and Collins case fighting for, defending and-or winning Championships on foreign soil at some point. Honestly..they took risks. Of course...Jones didn't 'have' to do that is said. He did have alot of guys trucked in as he benifited from what HBO reported at the time to be the largest multi fight contract afforded to any previous boxer. Pazienza was a sanctioned slaughter house. I can't fault him totally, no, but he certainly didn't go out and clean up a division he proclaimed to be 'Tha Man' in in the first place.

True but that does not mean that Roy was somehow obligated to go to England anymore then it obligated Nigel to come to Vegas. Point is this blame on Roy for these fights not taking place are unreasonable. Benn fought Galvano twice and the ever dangerous Gent. In 94 Jones embarrassed Tony. They are all equally responsible and the same goes for Dariusz at 175. Jones would not budge and neither would he.

No, he wasn't obligated. Your right. Afterall he was a shot caller and the major attraction. But at the same time he was soaked in an air of entitlement and presumption of certainty when in fact there was better challenges to be had. They literally put him on a broadway stage in a top hat with showgirls FFS. Roy was about being Roy and can't say he owned an era or faced all the top dogs. He was all about 'they don't pay me enough to take those risks'. He can hang his hat on an early Hopkins and Toney of course. Shit I think he psyched Toney out before the bell rang and am not one to by all that talk about Toney being a fat slob etc. Equally all the talk about 'if Roy had not gone to heavy he would be an all time great' etc. So what. Thats on him...thats his doing. I mean if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped? I also think his Hill win was one of the better ones. But all this God speak grew tired and watching him cling to shadows now is really a bit sad, for him and of him. I think we missed some gems of matches! Hypotheticals are exactly that, and its much much more believable to watch a guy defeat opponents than to say he will just because. He wasn't some cyborg, and in the end it turns out he bled too.

Agreed. My only points really are that they were all self centred, egocentric and all share the blame and that the calender or timing was also a factor. As a die hard Jones fan its embarrassing to watch him now. He should have retired after Ruiz.