From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?

[El Kabong]

Very true. Ali was like The Beatles he hit the scene at just the right time... he was talented but all the superfluous crap I could have done without.

[Master]

You lot say you do not like the baggage that Ali brought but you still do not accept that what he did in the ring was better than any other heavyweight ever accomplished.

Without Joe Louis there would have been less opportunity for Ali, not Jack Johnson, get your facts right.

Get over it and judge him on his boxing as we have.

[IamInuit]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

[Master]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

As was Joe Louis, Rocky was cheap, ......

[IamInuit]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

As was Joe Louis, Rocky was cheap, ......

Forever copied. Never duplicated.

[Dark Lord Al]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

Womanizing isnt a crime , refusing to go to war is.

[Vendettos]

Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).

Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.

I never find VKs fights boring.

Do you think this forum would exist if Ali wasn't the big name he was? Just curious.

I think he was the reason I ever knew about boxing as a child.

I personally think he was good at winning fights he probably shouldn't have, he won by any means.

Jesus H. Christ! I hope you don't actually think Ali is bigger than boxing.
Boxing would be different (better IMO) if Ali never existed, but it would still be doing fine.
Yes, this forum would be here if Ali never existed, the Internet is bigger than Ali and boxing. IMO

I don't believe that. I did say I was just curious.

Some people would say that without Ali boxing would be dead.

I personally don't know. I believe it would still be here, but wed be missing a golden era.

[brocktonblockbust]

Laugh all you want about Ali's current state, if it makes you feel happy, Ali will always be the greatest heavyweight ever.

To answer your question about the same number as Rocky should have been disqualified for his illegal and dirty fighting.

yeah he did hit quite alot on the back of the head as his oppoonents sought shelter from the barrage of Suzie-Qs raining down and up from all directions. I didnt like when he hit Charles on the back of the head in the final KO barrage in the rematch, though Ezzard was already well buzzed and on his way to getting rocked and rolled anyway.

I also didnt appreciate him hitting Don Cockell whilst he was down, though we have seen Tyson, Foreman, and Lewis do the same, at the very least, but it doesnt make it right.

Marciano was once described by Bert Sugar as "he'll hit any target he can get his hands on: shoulders, elbows, hips, kidneys---ahh hell!! He'd hit ya on the souls of your feet if you let 'im!"

Well I dont appreciate that too much. Though he is my boxing hero.

[Master]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

Womanizing isnt a crime , refusing to go to war is.

Many rich people draft dodged too at the time, so did Dempsey. Forget all that. Boxing he was the best.

[Master]

Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).

Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.

I never find VKs fights boring.

Do you think this forum would exist if Ali wasn't the big name he was? Just curious.

I think he was the reason I ever knew about boxing as a child.

I personally think he was good at winning fights he probably shouldn't have, he won by any means.

Jesus H. Christ! I hope you don't actually think Ali is bigger than boxing.
Boxing would be different (better IMO) if Ali never existed, but it would still be doing fine.
Yes, this forum would be here if Ali never existed, the Internet is bigger than Ali and boxing. IMO

I don't believe that. I did say I was just curious.

Some people would say that without Ali boxing would be dead.

I personally don't know. I believe it would still be here, but wed be missing a golden era.

If Ali was not around title would change hands Fraiser, Foreman, Young, Norton, Holmes...

[Dark Lord Al]

I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.

...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali

Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.

Womanizing isnt a crime , refusing to go to war is.

Many rich people draft dodged too at the time, so did Dempsey. Forget all that. Boxing he was the best.

The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .

[Beanflicker]

So you dont think if no Clay , Liston wouldnt have been a big star , or Frazier , or Big George ? someone would have taken his place with honours

Liston, Frazier and Big George? Are you SERIOUS? The public couldn't have given a fuck less about those guys. Liston and George were unapproachable, unfriendly lugs, and Frazier never got over with the general public until he beat Ali. Being good and winning alone doesn't make you a superstar, no need to look further than the Klitschko's to reaffirm that.

Ali never took a spot, he created a spot that was never matched before or after. You don't talk about Ali's fame compared to other boxers, you talk about his fame compared to everyone else, because he is arguably the most famous man in the world. So to suggest that Liston, Foreman, or another lug would have taken his place... that's just insanity.

I'm far from an Ali fan. I think he was a dickhead as a person, and I think he gets WAY too much credit for ducking the Viet Nam war. He wasn't courageous, he was afraid to go over there and risk getting killed like any other guy. He didn't give two fucks about the Veit Nam war and "fighting those viet cong" until they changed the draft criteria to make him eligible. Before that, you never heard him open his mouth about it.

So yeah, I think he was a prick and overrated as a person, but I'm not going to act like he wasn't the greatest of all time. He was. His KO victory of a prime Foreman alone is worth 30 of Louis' Bum of the Month club victories or more. He had arguably the greatest skills and he has INARGUABLY fought and conquered the greatest HW opposition.

[Beanflicker]

The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .

To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.

With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.

[Dark Lord Al]

The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .

To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.

With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.

Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.

[Beanflicker]

True, but I can't think of one boxing champ in history who actually fought in a war. We all know Dempsey ducked the first war and they dogged him for that for decades.