Sam Peter: Anybody?

[El Kabong]

Like Ive said to you lots of times this is an utterly stoopid argument

Suppose it was up to the judges in the ottke fights? If they said ottke won it must have been legit

The ref let's Wladimir's clinching go, he doesn't punish Wlad, but he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from holding, he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from throwing punches, he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from fighting back, etc. With Sven Ottke the ref punished Robin Reid for PUNCHING Ottke, that's keeping an opponent from fighting back, that's not a fair fight because 1 fighter has an advantage over the other because the rules of the ref are biased in favor of Ottke. The judges as well could be biased in favor of a certain fighter....though in Wladimir's case you'd be very hard pressed to find a fight where Wladimir landed fewer punches than his opponent, got hit more times than his opponent, etc...but I BEG you to find me a fight Wladimir CLEARLY lost just based on boxing, not on fouls you ASSUME were fouls, just 100% boxing. Punches thrown and landed, ring generalship, etc...find me a fight Wlad lost based on that otherwise stop fucking wasting my time you ignorant little bastard

What you're arguing is 100% of boxing is corrupt erics44, every decision is corrupt, every single title holder is corrupt.......but you still watch boxing and post on a boxing site because why? Riddle me that idiot

[erics44]

Like Ive said to you lots of times this is an utterly stoopid argument

Suppose it was up to the judges in the ottke fights? If they said ottke won it must have been legit

The ref let's Wladimir's clinching go, he doesn't punish Wlad, but he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from holding, he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from throwing punches, he doesn't keep Wlad's opponent from fighting back, etc. With Sven Ottke the ref punished Robin Reid for PUNCHING Ottke, that's keeping an opponent from fighting back, that's not a fair fight because 1 fighter has an advantage over the other because the rules of the ref are biased in favor of Ottke. The judges as well could be biased in favor of a certain fighter....though in Wladimir's case you'd be very hard pressed to find a fight where Wladimir landed fewer punches than his opponent, got hit more times than his opponent, etc...but I BEG you to find me a fight Wladimir CLEARLY lost just based on boxing, not on fouls you ASSUME were fouls, just 100% boxing. Punches thrown and landed, ring generalship, etc...find me a fight Wlad lost based on that otherwise stop fucking wasting my time you ignorant little bastard

What you're arguing is 100% of boxing is corrupt erics44, every decision is corrupt, every single title holder is corrupt.......but you still watch boxing and post on a boxing site because why? Riddle me that idiot

nope i am arguing wladimir klitchko would not have had and where near as fruitful reign if he would have been made to fight within the rules

i also feel that he is allowed to hold to the extreme amounts that he does because his fights bring in multiples of millions of pounds and make a lot of people very rich

i also gave you similar examples where money has driven the outcome of fights, sven ottke, burns beltram

[Beanflicker]

Clinching is a part of boxing. When was the last time you saw ANYONE get DQed or even have a point taken away for clinching? The only time that happens is when guys refuse to break when the ref asks them to break (something Wlad never does). It's become a legit technique in boxing, something a lot of the greatest of the great fighters (Ali, Bhop, Floyd, ect) have utilized to great success.

You still haven't addressed Ali: do you feel Ali's legacy would not be near what it is if he wasn't allowed to hold? Because he would tie guys up on the inside in much the same way Wlad does. Was he also the benefactor of corrupt officials who let him "cheat"? If you don't think so, that right there shows you are inconsistent with your views and therefore have no credibility in this matter.

[erics44]

Clinching is a part of boxing. When was the last time you saw ANYONE get DQed or even have a point taken away for clinching? The only time that happens is when guys refuse to break when the ref asks them to break (something Wlad never does). It's become a legit technique in boxing, something a lot of the greatest of the great fighters (Ali, Bhop, Floyd, ect) have utilized to great success.

You still haven't addressed Ali: do you feel Ali's legacy would not be near what it is if he wasn't allowed to hold? Because he would tie guys up on the inside in much the same way Wlad does. Was he also the benefactor of corrupt officials who let him "cheat"? If you don't think so, that right there shows you are inconsistent with your views and therefore have no credibility in this matter.

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

[Beanflicker]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

[erics44]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

[Beanflicker]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

[erics44]

^
^

ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

[El Kabong]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

[erics44]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won

[El Kabong]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won

Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

[Beanflicker]

^
^

ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

So let's cut to the chase: do you think that Ali (and the other guys you listed) would have had much lesser careers had they not been allowed to grapple? Enough pussyfooting around. You made certain claims about Wlad, do they run consistent down the board with guys like Ali?

[erics44]

^
^

ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

So let's cut to the chase: do you think that Ali (and the other guys you listed) would have had much lesser careers had they not been allowed to grapple? Enough pussyfooting around. You made certain claims about Wlad, do they run consistent down the board with guys like Ali?

i disagree, i have been very consistent


read my post above, i have explained a clear distinction between the ali grapple and the klitchko clinch