Sam Peter: Anybody?

[erics44]

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ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

[El Kabong]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

[Beanflicker]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

[Beanflicker]

^
^

ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

So let's cut to the chase: do you think that Ali (and the other guys you listed) would have had much lesser careers had they not been allowed to grapple? Enough pussyfooting around. You made certain claims about Wlad, do they run consistent down the board with guys like Ali?

[erics44]

your persistence to try and undermine my credibility in the argument with accusations and consitently using words like hater shows you are quite heavily emotionaly involved in this discussion, you havent posted one post without an emotional outburst like that for some time, therefore you have no credibility when continuing this discussion

You've undermined your own credibility by freely admitting that you are a hater. That was the word you chose to use.

There's no emotional outburst on my part. You've been backed into a corner and you're looking for a way out.

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

[erics44]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won

[Beanflicker]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

[erics44]

^
^

ok sweet now we have that out of the way

Ali clinched grapples, hopkins clinches grapples, ward clinches and grapples, hatton clinched and grappled

yep clinching and grappling is against the rules

pulling shirts in football is against the rules, contact in basketball is against the rules

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

the clinching klitchko does is extremely excessive, and its not just clinching its holding and leaning and doing it more than punching

if you gave someone who had never seen a boxing fight before and gave them an Ali tape and a wlad klit tape and gave them the fact that holding and leaning is against the rules i think they would come out with very different opinions of both fights

So let's cut to the chase: do you think that Ali (and the other guys you listed) would have had much lesser careers had they not been allowed to grapple? Enough pussyfooting around. You made certain claims about Wlad, do they run consistent down the board with guys like Ali?

i disagree, i have been very consistent


read my post above, i have explained a clear distinction between the ali grapple and the klitchko clinch

[erics44]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

[El Kabong]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won

Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

[erics44]

A certain amount of shirt pulling/contact/clinching is acceptable

And it's up to the ref to define what is a foul and what is not


Thanks for bringing us full circle jackass

As it was up to the judges in the sven ottke fights to whether or not ottke won

Judges don't decide what is and is not a foul. Try again

very similar situation

i believe sven ottke's reign was less than legit as a result of the money it generated, this could be seen by the amount of gift decisions he got

i believe wlad klits reign is less than legitimate as a result of the amount of money it generates, this can be seen by the amount fouling he is allowed to get away with in his fights

[El Kabong]

very similar situation

And Cricket is SIMILAR to Baseball but it's not the same.

[Beanflicker]

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

[Beanflicker]

I'm not asking you to change your opinion on Wlad, I'm just asking you to grow a pair of nuts and call out Muhammad Ali because he did the exact same shit.

[Beanflicker]

I'm rewatching Haye/Wlad now for the hell of it. After 4 rounds, the clinch total is…

-3 clinches.
-1 clinch attempt that was abandoned, so let's call it 1/2 a clinch.

So right now Wlad is averaging less than 1 clinch per round, but yet he's won 3 out of the 4 rounds on Harold's scorecard.

If he isn't winning them by clinching, what is he winning them doing?