Prime Holyfield vs prime Joe Frazier

[brocktonblockbust]

Do not call Joe blind, bum or avoiding punchers then.

I HAVE called Joe a bum previously so you have got me there, but I refrained myself this time by omitting that single derogatory comment out.

By my OWN little rating system, Frazier only lost 4 fights, hence, is not a bum.

But whether he ducked them or happenstance was the case, he did not fight the bigger punchers of his era like Mac Foster, Earnie Shavers, Sonny Liston, Ken Norton, Cleveland Williams, Ron Lyle etc.

And that Frazier was blind on 1 eye is simply a fact. It is what it is.

You can pump up Frazier's heart and talent for achieving what he did DESPITE being blind on 1 eye.

But you can also look at it that to be able to become HW champ seeing with only 1 eye as some kind of evidence of a weak era.

Joe was already shot--I say Joe was shot about 60% after the brutal beating Ali laid on him on March 8, 1971, and Big George Foreaman took the other 40% out of him in January 1973 in Kingston, Jamaica. Frazier had nothign left after that. Cleveland wms? He was done by the time Joe won the Gold and was any kind of contender. Why would Joe fight HIM? Liston was already done in '65. Why woud Joe fight HIM? Lyle and Shavers peaked way after Joe was already shot. And Norton wasnt a big puncher AT ALL>

Give Joe some credit for taking a 2nd fight with Goerge Foreman in 1975. How's that 2nd fight "avoiding the big punchers"?

[Max Power]

Joe was already shot--I say Joe was shot about 60% after the brutal beating Ali laid on him on March 8, 1971, and Big George Foreaman took the other 40% out of him in January 1973 in Kingston, Jamaica. Frazier had nothign left after that. Cleveland wms? He was done by the time Joe won the Gold and was any kind of contender. Why would Joe fight HIM? Liston was already done in '65. Why woud Joe fight HIM? Lyle and Shavers peaked way after Joe was already shot. And Norton wasnt a big puncher AT ALL>

Give Joe some credit for taking a 2nd fight with Goerge Foreman in 1975. How's that 2nd fight "avoiding the big punchers"?

Alright so happenstance has it then.

As a matter of fact I don't think ANY of those guys are REALLY hard punchers compared with now times but they were considered so in those days.

Yes, fair enough, I'll concede to you Joe had heart to face Foreman again, I'll never claim he ducked hard punchers again.

Fact is there simply weren't any around really except Foreman.

"Mahammad Ali- brutal beating left him 60% shot"? What, in FOTC?

Come on though, Frazier goes 15 rounds without a KO with one of the most featherfisted boxers of all time and he is shot? You already had me with the rest of your statement, I wouldn't have mentioned that!

Frazier pasted Ali in 71. He would have scored the KO had he had a hard punch himself!

[Max Power]

Anyway I fail to see how any of this makes a case for Joe to have a competitive fight with Holyfield.

Holyfield hit far harder than Joe, was faster, longer, stronger, iron chinned and elite skilled by comparison.

Take reflexless powder puff Ali out of FOTC and insert Evander of ANY time and Joe ain't going 15, 12, or even 6 I don't reckon.

I don't want to put up pics or vids again but if you seen Frazier up against Holyfield a small child could see immediately there's no contest.

[Master]

Why disrespect Ali you Muppet?

Ali had one of the best chins in history.

No one says Ali was a knockout artist either.

You make concessions and then insult the fighters further.

[Max Power]

Why disrespect Ali you Muppet?

Ali had one of the best chins in history.

No one says Ali was a knockout artist either.

You make concessions and then insult the fighters further.

On what grounds?

Being knocked by 185lb Cooper who had a bummy record?

Atleast when Wladimir got knocked down by a bum it was by a man mountain puncher and through exhaustion.

Muhammad Ali grew a lot stronger in his second career (his REAL prime) and DID have an iron chin in relation to his era.

But then again, the time he met a really hard puncher Foreman, he didn't really take any head shots because he was tortoise shelled on the ropes. Good on him for that, whatever works, he got the win.

But I don't think you can make a case for one of the hardest chins in "history" by taking shots from Frazier!

Imagine if we replaced Frazier's hooks with say, Tommy Morrison's?

Faster, sharper and about 3x harder? Really think his "chin" would have saved him then?

Chin is relative to the era, obviously. Claiming best in "history" can only include boxers up to that point in time. As it goes on there will be more and more boxers that both hit harder and take punches.

[Master]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

[Max Power]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

Any boxer would have a vulnerable chin against this crop of fighters. Have a look at the bloody guys he fights! They are the hardest punchers the world has ever seen. It is DEFINITELY smart. If he was scared, he wouldn't get in there with them. It is unnecessary if you want to score lots of early round KO's. It is DEFINITELY necessary if you want to barely get hit, win nearly every round of boxing you fight and go 10 years without a loss.

Ali withstood the strongest fighters in history did he? LOL Yeah right! Most of Ali's opponents were not even real HW's. Get real!