Prime Holyfield vs prime Joe Frazier

[Master]

Vitali got beat by Lennox get over it. It was punches that caused the damage get over it.

You post crap. It is something we tolerate from you. We have to get over that.

[Max Power]

Vitali got beat by Lennox get over it. It was punches that caused the damage get over it.

You post crap. It is something we tolerate from you. We have to get over that.

Hmm yeah, that's why everyone demanded a rematch, because Vitali was clearly beaten right.

[fairyrak]

"What is generally referred to as PRIME, the athletic prime, occurs near the beginning of a boxers pro career. The REAL prime occurs much later when the most attrinbutes combine together to produce the ost formidable boxer. In my opinion this is at about 35 on average. Later for long range technical boxers."

are you sure? this doesn't convince me. Let's talk about in speed and timing only
But note that the decline of all baseball or basketball players that are 38 years old in homeruns and average is enormous. My doubt is How can this be infinitely different for boxers if they are also athletes and human beings?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4AJTrC30jCN3dg

are you still sure that a boxer at 38 years old can be the same? i mean a boxer, that is to say an athlete who besides of being old recieves lots of punches to the head can ever be comparable to one of 28? I think that experience is overrated. There might be exceptions but what is the probability of exceptions appearing? 4% maybe? That's what I think

Note: I understand your other arguments though but what i for now think is that age influences a lot more that what you can see but that might be only until you explain me why boxers don't decline a lot but just a little because it might also be that a 48 years old boxer is dominating because the state of teh division is not the same than when he was 29 or so

[Mr140]

Just talking out of his ass there have been very few champs that have been that old. At 38 you lose alot of your speed and stamina which is huge deal to a lot of fighters experience can go only so far. Most fighter are done by 33 to 35 a few make it to there late 30's like 38 very few do.

[Max Power]

Just talking out of his ass there have been very few champs that have been that old. At 38 you lose alot of your speed and stamina which is huge deal to a lot of fighters experience can go only so far. Most fighter are done by 33 to 35 a few make it to there late 30's like 38 very few do.

Historically yes..

As time marches forward you might as well get used to it, because the so called "prime" age for a boxer, and the "competitive" ages are going to keep getting older and older all the time. Come back in ten years when 40+ yr old competitors and champs in boxing are common and then tell me the same thing.

[Max Power]

"What is generally referred to as PRIME, the athletic prime, occurs near the beginning of a boxers pro career. The REAL prime occurs much later when the most attrinbutes combine together to produce the ost formidable boxer. In my opinion this is at about 35 on average. Later for long range technical boxers."

are you sure? this doesn't convince me. Let's talk about in speed and timing only
But note that the decline of all baseball or basketball players that are 38 years old in homeruns and average is enormous. My doubt is How can this be infinitely different for boxers if they are also athletes and human beings?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4AJTrC30jCN3dg

are you still sure that a boxer at 38 years old can be the same? i mean a boxer, that is to say an athlete who besides of being old recieves lots of punches to the head can ever be comparable to one of 28? I think that experience is overrated. There might be exceptions but what is the probability of exceptions appearing? 4% maybe? That's what I think

Note: I understand your other arguments though but what i for now think is that age influences a lot more that what you can see but that might be only until you explain me why boxers don't decline a lot but just a little because it might also be that a 48 years old boxer is dominating because the state of teh division is not the same than when he was 29 or so

Yes I am sure. Because we see boxers of 38 champions across the board, and even older boxers who are still atleast competitive. Why the difference?

Because Baseball is fully reflex/timing dependant, which I have read makes a decline in the early 30's, other than that it isn't a really athletic sport. Basketball is a highly athletic sport and heavily reliant on agility and speed which begin to decline even earlier in the 20's.

The difference with boxing is that these qualities do decline, but what might be termed "ring-craft", "ring-IQ", or "boxing-brain" adds a dimension to boxing which is not so prevalent in these other sports.

Sometimes the young athletic lion of 20 fights will beat the veteran of 60 fights.

But sometimes the veteran of 60 fights experience will be able to overcome the young lion as well.

It can also be explained like this. Young boxers fight WITH their athleticism. Older boxers fight more with their head almost trying NOT to be athletic.