Prime Holyfield vs prime Joe Frazier

[Master]

Almost EVERY Wladimir opponent has a hard punch and MOST of them have good skill set to to back it up!


You are insane! They are not bums but turds.

[TitoFan]

These threads are fun to read. It's starts off decently with a mythical matchup between a prime Holyfield and a prime Frazier..... and somehow gets derailed into Max claiming that David Haye (of all people) would beat Ali. Priceless shit!!!

First the topic at hand:

Joe was not the.... what was it.... "feather-fisted, blind, punching bag bum"..... that a couple of deluded posters on here disrespectfully make him out to be. That is beyond ludicrous. Joe Frazier was heavyweight champion of the world, and accumulated plenty of knockouts himself until he pretty much got ruined between his fights with Ali and his massacre at the hands of Big George Foreman.

I'd still have to favor Holyfield, if only because of Holyfield's size, chin, and heart. Frazier would've connected on Holyfield, and maybe wobbled him once or twice. But Holyfield's sheer physicality would've eventually worn out Frazier, for a late round TKO win.

Now on to Haye vs. Ali........

Are you mad?!?!?!?


Also, let me put an argument to rest right here and now:

The difference between Ali's opponents, Frazier's opponents, and Wlad's opponents is the following:

Neither Ali's opponents nor Frazier's opponents entered the ring already beaten, with a load of shit in their pants and empty space where their balls used to be. Wlad's opponents, Haye included, do a lot of talking and promising. But just like politicians, when they enter the ring all they have in mind is to find the nearest corner to lay down, or how to survive with the least amount of pain so they can collect their unearned checks.

What they don't realize is that Wlad himself is scared shitless of taking one on the chin, thus resulting in boring, pawing, grappling, clutching, mauling fights.

[Max Power]

These threads are fun to read. It's starts off decently with a mythical matchup between a prime Holyfield and a prime Frazier..... and somehow gets derailed into Max claiming that David Haye (of all people) would beat Ali. Priceless shit!!!

Holyfield vs Frazier and Haye vs Ali are total mismatches in favour of Haye and Holyfield. Objectively speaking there is no way possible that the oldies could beat these guys.

First the topic at hand:

Joe was not the.... what was it.... "feather-fisted, blind, punching bag bum"..... that a couple of deluded posters on here disrespectfully make him out to be. That is beyond ludicrous. Joe Frazier was heavyweight champion of the world, and accumulated plenty of knockouts himself until he pretty much got ruined between his fights with Ali and his massacre at the hands of Big George Foreman.

Joe Frazier was part blind, undeniable fact.
Frazier was a hard puncher vs CW's, a featherfist vs HW's. Stats are facts.
Frazier was hit easily. Pull up any Frazier video where he faced a non-bummy opponent, randomly click on any time of the fight and see how long it takes him to get hit.
Frazier is not a bum. He had a good record. Were he to fight today he would be less than a bum at either CW or HW and would never be licenced to box anyway.
Joe Frazier was HW champion of the world in the early 1970's!!! The year is nearly 2015.
Joe Frazier scored plenty of knockouts vs CW's and bums. Vs HW's with decent records, Frazier managed to KO less than half of his opponents.
His fight with Ali, an even weaker featherfist, which he won and his first KO loss to Foreman who could barely box ruined him. Lennox Lewis was 2ce outboxed by lesser opponents and then knocked out. Wladimir Klitschko met demise 3 times. These guys came back to reclaim the title after being upset by very powerful boxers. But Frazier was done in by these guys? Get real!

I'd still have to favor Holyfield, if only because of Holyfield's size, chin, and heart. Frazier would've connected on Holyfield, and maybe wobbled him once or twice. But Holyfield's sheer physicality would've eventually worn out Frazier, for a late round TKO win.

Holyfield was not the hardest boxer to hit. Frazier might land some punches. Holyfield would never flinch at a Frazier punch, the guy took millions of bombs from superheavyweight punchers and was rarely ever knocked down. He would demolish Holyfield so easily it would not be worthwhile.

It's obvious that Frazier would never enter the ring with Holyfield because he would lose to far worse opposition in his era before he ever reached Evander.

Now on to Haye vs. Ali........

Are you mad?!?!?!?

Deadly serious of course. Declaring the opposite would be madness.

Haye is possibly the fastest HW in history, faster than Ali at any comparable weight.
Haye is ultra slick with possibly the most outstanding reflexes of any HW in history. Ali 1 was a runner who was hit by the slowest punches as soon as he stayed in range. Ali 2 was a slow plodding overweight who was smashed from pillar to post in nearly all of his fights.
Haye knocked out almost every opponent he ever faced and 4 boxers who significantly outweighed him as well. Ali never once scored a proper knockout over any decent opponent.
Haye was never outboxed ever except by WK who out-talled and outweighed him.
Ali was outboxed and in reality lost atleast 10 or 11 fights and was gift assisted/struggled in many others.
Haye fought much higher quality boxers than Muhammad Ali.

I'd say it's a landslide for Haye. He would totally clown and knockout any version of Ali who would never land a significant punch on him. Fact!

Also, let me put an argument to rest right here and now:

The difference between Ali's opponents, Frazier's opponents, and Wlad's opponents is the following:

Neither Ali's opponents nor Frazier's opponents entered the ring already beaten, with a load of shit in their pants and empty space where their balls used to be. Wlad's opponents, Haye included, do a lot of talking and promising. But just like politicians, when they enter the ring all they have in mind is to find the nearest corner to lay down, or how to survive with the least amount of pain so they can collect their unearned checks.

Ah yes, of course, one after another, every boxer that has faced Klitschko and LOST just didn't try hard enough to win.

Of course that's the reason.

But all the opponents that faced Ali and Frazier and LOST it was because they were quality boxers but Ali and Frazier were too great.

Yeah that's gotta be it! LOL

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that Wladimir Klitschko has an almost invincible style+attributes and Frazier and Ali could barely box and were piss weak!

What they don't realize is that Wlad himself is scared shitless of taking one on the chin, thus resulting in boring, pawing, grappling, clutching, mauling fights.

Oh, so TitoFan here KNOWS that Wladimir Klitschko is scared to take a punch on his weak chin but none of the opponents or their coaches are privy to such information who actually fight him. The solution is SO simple, just tap that chin and he's gone. Except HITTING Wladimir Klitschko is extremely difficult as evidenced by punch stats. Except almost every opponent has landed atleast 1 good+solid shot on Klitschko which has sent him to the canvas statistically one of the FEWEST times for any HW.

Maybe you should impart your wisdom to the next WK opponent then so we can see a change of the throne and save boxing from boring old Wladimir

Rarely do I see such utter rubbish!

[Max Power]

Almost EVERY Wladimir opponent has a hard punch and MOST of them have good skill set to to back it up!


You are insane! They are not bums but turds.

Yes that is a very objective assessment right there.

Guys like Jerry Quarry is a quality opponent.

David Haye is a turd.

George Foreman had underrated skills..

But Bermane Stiverne is a piece of crap.

I know you don't believe any of it. It's unbelievable.

[Master]

Almost EVERY Wladimir opponent has a hard punch and MOST of them have good skill set to to back it up!


You are insane! They are not bums but turds.

Yes that is a very objective assessment right there.

Guys like Jerry Quarry is a quality opponent.

David Haye is a turd.

George Foreman had underrated skills..

But Bermane Stiverne is a piece of crap.

I know you don't believe any of it. It's unbelievable.

Haye fought like a turd against Wlad.

Stiverne has not fought Wlad yet.

[Max Power]

Almost EVERY Wladimir opponent has a hard punch and MOST of them have good skill set to to back it up!


You are insane! They are not bums but turds.

Yes that is a very objective assessment right there.

Guys like Jerry Quarry is a quality opponent.

David Haye is a turd.

George Foreman had underrated skills..

But Bermane Stiverne is a piece of crap.

I know you don't believe any of it. It's unbelievable.

Haye fought like a turd against Wlad.

Stiverne has not fought Wlad yet.

Haye looks good against his other opponents..

Basically ALL of Wlad's opponents looked good against their other opponents, but not against Wladimir.

Conclusion= It's Wlad's credit that MAKES them look bad. Klitschko's style nullifies and shuts down the opponents style.

Obviously.

[Master]

Almost EVERY Wladimir opponent has a hard punch and MOST of them have good skill set to to back it up!


You are insane! They are not bums but turds.

Yes that is a very objective assessment right there.

Guys like Jerry Quarry is a quality opponent.

David Haye is a turd.

George Foreman had underrated skills..

But Bermane Stiverne is a piece of crap.

I know you don't believe any of it. It's unbelievable.

Haye fought like a turd against Wlad.

Stiverne has not fought Wlad yet.

Haye looks good against his other opponents..

Basically ALL of Wlad's opponents looked good against their other opponents, but not against Wladimir.

Conclusion= It's Wlad's credit that MAKES them look bad. Klitschko's style nullifies and shuts down the opponents style.

Obviously.

Name some opponents that have looked good? Conversely they may have looked good because they were fighting poor opposition.

[Mr140]

Holyfeild was fucking 48 not everyone is Hopkins you should not be that competitive near that age against a fucking champ. Haye in his prime best outing at hw that was beat by a fucking man at the end of 26 year career who started at fucking lhw. Max you are a idiot say all shit i am not even saying this eras that bad but you want that extreme saying its tha best bullshit. The Older brother got his face turned into a vag by a 38 year old Lewis who was out shape last time he was in that shap fucking rahman knocked him the fuck out. Wald lost to total bum in Purty and then got lit up by Sanduars who was top 10 nothing in the 90's and did really nothing but golf after he beat Wald. Bewster fucking lost his title to a man who got knocked out by fucking Briggs telling this is the best we have had come the fuck on.

[Max Power]

Holyfeild was fucking 48 not everyone is Hopkins you should not be that competitive near that age against a fucking champ. Haye in his prime best outing at hw that was beat by a fucking man at the end of 26 year career who started at fucking lhw. Max you are a idiot say all shit i am not even saying this eras that bad but you want that extreme saying its tha best bullshit. The Older brother got his face turned into a vag by a 38 year old Lewis who was out shape last time he was in that shap fucking rahman knocked him the fuck out. Wald lost to total bum in Purty and then got lit up by Sanduars who was top 10 nothing in the 90's and did really nothing but golf after he beat Wald. Bewster fucking lost his title to a man who got knocked out by fucking Briggs telling this is the best we have had come the fuck on.

Holyfield at 48 had lost former speed and athleticism and workrate. But he maintained those other qualities. Fortunately, he had still more of these qualities to be able to match the giant Valuev. I thought it could have been a draw. Judges thought he lost!

Haye clearly beat Valuev. The problem with rating any boxer vs Valuev is that it is always a game of hit and run because of the size disparity. And any boxer is going to be fast enough to hit him. It is simply a test of tactics over 12 rounds. Of Haye, Chagaev and Holyfield, only Haye had a moment there where he nearly put the giant down.

Haye rocked up to the HW division the smallest competitor and started whacking giant boxers around and out like it was his own weight class. Basically never seen before!

Vitali punched the living shit out of Lennox at ONLY 38 which is not old, the heaviest and most experienced version of Lewis. Lennox was incredibly lucky to slash some freak cuts of VK and get stoppage. Obviously he could not beat Vitali under concventional means in a rematch and retired.

So you make excuses for LEnnox vs Rahman when no excuses exist. He was outboxed and knocked out, but you will rubbish Klitschko's for losses when there are circumstantial factors in all if them. Extreme bias.