What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?

[erics44]

why do you think that in the huge majority of other fights that the ref calls fouls for holding? yet when wlad fights he is allowed to hold to an extreme level?

do you think any other fighter would have been allowed to continue in the Provetkin or Sam Peter 2 fight?

Do they? I'd love to see a statistical breakdown of that.


Yes plenty of other fighters would have been allowed to continue. And it's the ref's fault for allowing those fights to happen that way, call the fouls, deduct the points, don't do it and well the fighters will take advantage.....at least the smart/cagey ones will.

or the ones that generate huge amounts of money for everyone involved in the promotion

[TitoFan]

I like how you can have a long, drawn out, civil debate with Eric for exactly the same arguments I put forth about Wlad, but let me say something negative about Wlad and you have a crybaby hissy fit. Is it my aftershave? Deodorant?

[El Kabong]

or the ones that generate huge amounts of money for everyone involved in the promotion

so the fights are fixed is pretty much what you're saying?



TitoFan, you know how you "debate"

Ah yes..........

Because as we all know those are the only two fucking choices:

1. Spend all 12 rounds flinching at every punch and using whatever means (legal or not) available to avoid the vapor trail of the opponent's punches, lest that chin shatter into a billion pieces. Fans be damned... I just want my check and to get the hell outta here. I'll clinch, maul, grapple, or throw a punch per decade as I did against the Gypsy King.

2. Put your chin out there (a la Mayorga) to be hit like a birthday piñata, so I can show everyone how macho I am.



Well, Bob....... which will it be?? Is it Door # 1? Or Door # 2?



Pleeeease..... that's beneath you, isn't it? Reducing every issue to either pitch black or lily white? Shame on you.

That civil debate? How would you imagine I would respond to such vitriol?

[TitoFan]

....I do expect better from you, I don't know why I do after stupid posts like that but I expect better.

I don't get personal like you do... (giveaway sign of knowing you're arguing on the wrong side).

[El Kabong]

....I do expect better from you, I don't know why I do after stupid posts like that but I expect better.

I don't get personal like you do... (giveaway sign of knowing you're arguing on the wrong side).

I know right

"It's amazing that you can sit there and.... with a straight face..... defend a guy who broke all kinds of world records for inactivity during his stinker of a fight versus the Gypsy King. But that's what being a blind fan does to a guy.

You're welcome." and "Shame on you." - TitoFan, to me

[vidgil]

Seems like the "good HW champ" option won.

I'll accept that, maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him. I guess I will say he was a good HW champ and give him respect for the run he had.

But top 10 never.

I think he had the potential to be top 5 if he had his brother's chin and courage. Maybe he could have been #1 if he had those and fought in a more respectable manner.

[TitoFan]

Seems like the "good HW champ" option won.

I'll accept that, maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him. I guess I will say he was a good HW champ and give him respect for the run he had.

But top 10 never.

I think he had the potential to be top 5 if he had his brother's chin and courage. Maybe he could have been #1 if he had those and fought in a more respectable manner.

The poll was hacked by the Ukrainians with help from the Russians.

The "unhacked" result would've been a clear, landslide victory for "Overrated, clinch-happy, chicken-shit steroid head".

[vidgil]

Seems like the "good HW champ" option won.

I'll accept that, maybe I'm being a bit too hard on him. I guess I will say he was a good HW champ and give him respect for the run he had.

But top 10 never.

I think he had the potential to be top 5 if he had his brother's chin and courage. Maybe he could have been #1 if he had those and fought in a more respectable manner.

The poll was hacked by the Ukrainians with help from the Russians.

The "unhacked" result would've been a clear, landslide victory for "Overrated, clinch-happy, chicken-shit steroid head".

Now that they got Trump elected, they were free to go after the REAL issues, like my poll!

[erics44]

I am pretty much saying wlad kilts fights were fixed as much as they can be fixed without actually being fixed

[El Kabong]

I am pretty much saying wlad kilts fights were fixed as much as they can be fixed without actually being fixed

Stop pussyfooting around the accusation eric. I'm not being angry or mean, I just want you to be 100% honest and be yourself on here and that quote ....that shit ain't cutting it.


You're leveling the charge that in Wladimir Klitschko's fights it has always been Wlad & The Ref vs Wlad's opponent. Also the Ref will call fouls ONLY on the opponent and never on Wlad. That is what you want to say and you should say it, don't hold back, why hold back, this is an area for debate and opinion.


If you see it that way, then that's how you see it, nothing much I can do to make that right. Now of course it's an OPINION that you have and you can't back anything up with proof or evidence, but that's fine.

[erics44]

Every promoter / promotion favours their fighters, hundreds of fights have swung the promoted fighters way because they are the promoted fighter

The promoters have a business to run, if their money earners lose they could be massively out of pocket, could even end their business if their prize asset is on the wrong end of a decision

So it happens much more often that they are on the right end of a decision

Some fights are close that perhaps should of gone one way but go the other, others are blatantly bad decisions

Now fighters can be more protected depending on their standing and earning potential

The kilts with wlad took this to the extreme , wlad would generally win a decision / get a knock out and all they had to do was let him hold and lean, both of which are against the rules , and they didn't mind that it was extremely blatant and regular because the German public would still pay

The fights were never pre planned but the ref and officials were well aware of the job they needed to do to earn they type of money they were earning

[El Kabong]

Every promoter / promotion favours their fighters, hundreds of fights have swung the promoted fighters way because they are the promoted fighter

The promoters have a business to run, if their money earners lose they could be massively out of pocket, could even end their business if their prize asset is on the wrong end of a decision

So it happens much more often that they are on the right end of a decision

Some fights are close that perhaps should of gone one way but go the other, others are blatantly bad decisions

Now fighters can be more protected depending on their standing and earning potential

The kilts with wlad took this to the extreme , wlad would generally win a decision / get a knock out and all they had to do was let him hold and lean, both of which are against the rules , and they didn't mind that it was extremely blatant and regular because the German public would still pay

The fights were never pre planned but the ref and officials were well aware of the job they needed to do to earn they type of money they were earning

I didn't see Sam peter get warned for punching Wlad in the back of the head....at that point in time wasn't Peter a much more likely money maker considering the losses Wlad had suffered to Sanders and Brewster?

And the extreme blatant "against the rules" tactics of other fighters whom you never bring up?

[denilson200]

His legacy ?

Let’s face facts WK wins have been basically the guys Rocky Balboa beat between the rematch with Apollo Creed and the first Clubber Lang fight. As Mickey said, “They was good fighters, but….…”

It was hard to not laugh when I watched the documentary titled “Klitschko,” and they acted as if the Byrd fight was like the "Thrilla in Manila"

None WK of victims have been titans.

There are no gems on his record. This is a guy who (In his prime) lost inside the distance. Ross Puritty, Corrie Sanders, and Lamon Brewster so if your talking about a top-five (hell, top ten) placement on the all-time list of heavyweight champions, forget it.

Yes he was dominant but he’s awkward and oafish when compared to past greats.

The AJ fight is a total mismatch and I'm talking Tyson - Peter McNeely standard.

Klitschko won't go beyond 3 rounds with AJ and who wants to wager with me ?

Any takers

[El Kabong]

His legacy ?

Let’s face facts WK wins have been basically the guys Rocky Balboa beat between the rematch with Apollo Creed and the first Clubber Lang fight. As Mickey said, “They was good fighters, but….…”

It was hard to not laugh when I watched the documentary titled “Klitschko,” and they acted as if the Byrd fight was like the Thrilla in Manila.

None WK of victims have been titans.

There are no gems on his record. This is a guy who (In his prime) lost inside the distance. Ross Puritty, Corrie Sanders, and Lamon Brewster so if your talking about a top-five (hell, top ten) placement on the all-time list of heavyweight champions, forget it.

Yes he was dominant but he’s awkward and oafish when compared to past greats.

This is total mismatch and I'm talking Tyson - Peter McNeely standard.

Klitschko won't go beyond 3 rounds with AJ and who wants to wager with me ?

Any takers

A lot of greats have lost in their primes inside the distance....I mean A LOT. Joe Frazier got blasted out, Foreman lost in his prime, Ali lost in his prime (if not for the draft dodging) albeit he wasn't KO'd until later on....still that Henry Cooper fight was dodgy as fuck Wlad never pulled any of that kind of shit. Lennox Lewis got stopped twice in his prime, Mike Tyson got stopped by Buster Douglas and that was at a time when people thought Tyson was unbeatable (but it's totally not his prime because his prime was with Cus and/or Rooney ), Jack Dempsey got stopped in his prime (Ko'd by Fireman Jim Flynn in 1)......even Joe Louis lost by KO right in the contender part of his career. It happens, Marciano, Johnson, Tunney, Holmes, those guys didn't get KO'd in their primes (though some of those guys were KO'd earlier or later but they got KO'd, except for Rocky and Gene The Fighting Marine).....those your all-time greats?

[TitoFan]

A lot of greats have lost in their primes inside the distance....I mean A LOT. Joe Frazier got blasted out, Foreman lost in his prime, Ali lost in his prime (if not for the draft dodging) albeit he wasn't KO'd until later on....still that Henry Cooper fight was dodgy as fuck Wlad never pulled any of that kind of shit. Lennox Lewis got stopped twice in his prime, Mike Tyson got stopped by Buster Douglas and that was at a time when people thought Tyson was unbeatable (but it's totally not his prime because his prime was with Cus and/or Rooney ), Jack Dempsey got stopped in his prime (Ko'd by Fireman Jim Flynn in 1)......even Joe Louis lost by KO right in the contender part of his career. It happens, Marciano, Johnson, Tunney, Holmes, those guys didn't get KO'd in their primes (though some of those guys were KO'd earlier or later but they got KO'd, except for Rocky and Gene The Fighting Marine).....those your all-time greats?

I know you don't like to read anti-Wlad stuff from me particularly, but tough shit.

Joe Frazier got "blasted out" by none other than George Foreman, an ATG. After that fight he didn't change his fighting style.
Had the "Thrilla in Manila" with Ali later on.

Foreman lost in his prime to none other than Ali. He then lost to Jimmy Young and retired, only to come back years later for his storied 2nd career. He was still a big puncher... he was still aggressive, albeit a bit rounder and bit slower.

Lennox got knocked out twice, and came back to avenge both those knockouts with stoppages of his own.
Lewis did not change his fighting style 'cause he had gotten knocked out.

Mike Tyson got stopped by Buster Douglas and damn if people don't give Douglas enough credit for fighting the fight of his life. It was toe-to-toe for 10 rounds.
Mike didn't change his fighting style after that.

Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano..... ALL those guys you mentioned maintained their aggressive, effective fighting style throughout their entire, illustrious, HOF careers.


Wladimir Klitschko got KO'ed early in his career by virtual bums. That experience, coupled with some coaching from Emanuel, turned Wlad into a timid little rabbit. Those fighters who were later knocked out by him were scared shitless themselves (ie: Ray Austin), or were downright bums (ie: Leapai, Pianeta). On other occasions the yellow streak was mutual (ie: Sultan, Haye), resulting in horrible fights. Finally, on the rare occasions the opponent was up to the task, Wlad would shamelessly foul, clinch, and maul to his heart's content (ie: Povetkin).

Wlad did change his fighting style to one of survival over aggression.



Every HW champion has had their share of bums on their resumes. But not until Wladimir has there been a HW champion so hated for what I've stated above. Sure, he's beloved in Germany. Who doesn't support their native (or adopted) son in the most prestigious title in all of sports? But outside of that, people abhor him. Why do you think the popularity of the HW division has plummeted since Wlad began his reign? A lot of people (myself included) were ecstatic when Wlad lost to Fury (I wanted a KO, but I'll wait for Joshua to do that). And where is Fury now? It doesn't matter. In fact, it's even MORE damning for Wlad to have lost to such a loser, in what was probably the WORST FUCKING FIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION.... breaking all sorts of records for inactivity? WHY? Because as usual, Wlad was scared shitless. THAT is why he only managed to land a punch every full moon or so.

I'm sure your answers to me will not be as measured as they've been for the others, but again... FUCK IT.
Those are the facts, take them or leave them.