Vasyl Lomachenko is P4P #1

[Alpha]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

[powerpuncher]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

[Nameless]

The guy has dazzling reflexes and speed and the hell of a footwork. I don't know if he deserves the P4P but I think that it's not scandalous to think that he does deserve it. As long as he's in the top 3 P4P at the moment, I think that it could be considered fair enough.

[Gandalf]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

He was an extraordinary fighter, with a unique style. Sure he could be sloppy, sure he didn't hit the hardest, but how are you going to take rounds off him on a consistent enough basis to win a 12 round fight? Impossible. It isn't ballet, you don't win the fight based on the grace of your hook, or the snazzy way you roll after a punch, it's about hitting that man again and again and making sure he cannot land as much on you. Andre Ward with his 30 punches a round would be dazzled by Calzaghe. Ward is very limited. Calzaghe wouldn't give him the chance to breathe. Ward would make it ugly, but Calzaghe would be on him like a mental mosquito again and again and again. Ward struggled against a plodder in his last fight, put him in with someone with output, speed and intelligence and you will see him undone.

[powerpuncher]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

He was an extraordinary fighter, with a unique style. Sure he could be sloppy, sure he didn't hit the hardest, but how are you going to take rounds off him on a consistent enough basis to win a 12 round fight? Impossible. It isn't ballet, you don't win the fight based on the grace of your hook, or the snazzy way you roll after a punch, it's about hitting that man again and again and making sure he cannot land as much on you. Andre Ward with his 30 punches a round would be dazzled by Calzaghe. Ward is very limited. Calzaghe wouldn't give him the chance to breathe. Ward would make it ugly, but Calzaghe would be on him like a mental mosquito again and again and again. Ward struggled against a plodder in his last fight, put him in with someone with output, speed and intelligence and you will see him undone.

Ward is one of the top talents in the sport in the last 20 years. He did himself a disservice by not fighting for so long but he absolutely dominated a stacked 168 division. And for the record, did it much more impressively than calzaghe. You are far underrating ward and far overrating calzaghe.

I just can't take somebody seriously who says that Ward is a limited fighter.

And for the record, calzaghe would have ran into a huge shot from kovalev eventually and been put out. His defense wasn't good enough and kovalev has fight ending power.

[Gandalf]

Nah, you are high on limitation. It happens when a division becomes hollow and lacks a superstar high output, intelligent, speedy southpaw. Kovalev couldn't keep up with Calzaghe. He's too predictable. Calzaghe would likely be put down early but he would win 10 rounds with Kovalev screaming into the air wondering where the windmill is coming from. It would be glorious. Calzaghe wouldn't be huffing and puffing like Kov was against Ward. That was against a guy who throws 30 punches a round and grapples to kill time! Ward is not that highly skilled. James Toney was highly skilled. Hopkins was highly skilled. Ward? Nah, he will never have the same plaudits. He just has quick hands and a way with the head. He lost against Kovalev already, but he is more intelligent and that might help him in the rematch.

Calzaghe was impeccable, especially from 30 until 36. He refined his art like few others have. He became the most tricky unbeatable fighter of all time. I love James Toney but he didn't have the same intelligence. Calzaghe ALWAYS found a way and he didn't cheat like Ward against Kessler etc. You cannot beat a fighter with a chin who will always throw and land more. After 12 he always has your number and most likely made you look silly.

[Gandalf]

You look at Wards record and it's basically Calzaghe leftovers. Oh, and Froch who has been outboxed by plenty of fighters and Abraham who has too. There is nothing in there to even compare with a Calzaghe. Nothing. It's nothing spectacular. Then in recent years who has he been fighting?

Then Kovalev too. Look at the resume. It is pretty hollow. Cleverly was the big one, but since it has been a Hopkins a decade older than the one Calzaghe faced who now had no legs and a Pascal beaten by Froch years ago. Suddenly the power that can stop Pascal is going to trap Calzaghe like a deer in the headlights. It's unfathomable. Kovs power has vanished in recent fights. Couldn't even stop a Hopkins on his last legs. It is overrated.

Calzaghe was special, unique and though flawed had a will to win like no other. He didn't breathe heavy and stop throwing. He threw and threw and threw and his footwork was excellent. His combinations were unorthodox and unpredictable. You couldn't prepare for him as there was nothing like him. Kov versus Ward was a let down. It became plod against clinch.

Now James Toney has a resume! Look at that list of fighters. Better than Calzaghe, Ward and Kovs put together!

[ryanman]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

He was an extraordinary fighter, with a unique style. Sure he could be sloppy, sure he didn't hit the hardest, but how are you going to take rounds off him on a consistent enough basis to win a 12 round fight? Impossible. It isn't ballet, you don't win the fight based on the grace of your hook, or the snazzy way you roll after a punch, it's about hitting that man again and again and making sure he cannot land as much on you. Andre Ward with his 30 punches a round would be dazzled by Calzaghe. Ward is very limited. Calzaghe wouldn't give him the chance to breathe. Ward would make it ugly, but Calzaghe would be on him like a mental mosquito again and again and again. Ward struggled against a plodder in his last fight, put him in with someone with output, speed and intelligence and you will see him undone.

Ward is one of the top talents in the sport in the last 20 years. He did himself a disservice by not fighting for so long but he absolutely dominated a stacked 168 division. And for the record, did it much more impressively than calzaghe. You are far underrating ward and far overrating calzaghe.

I just can't take somebody seriously who says that Ward is a limited fighter.

And for the record, calzaghe would have ran into a huge shot from kovalev eventually and been put out. His defense wasn't good enough and kovalev has fight ending power.

Honestly...

Not sure where to start..

You are taking the 38 year old Calzaghe vs a prime Kov?

Really what evidence do you have of J C being put to sleep by anyone? The fucker got sparked twice and both times was firing back on the way down. And that was when he was 37 and 38. FFS.

Honestly if a proper boxing nerd thinks Kov would have got close to Cal in his prime then there is something wrong or its an agenda. You can't be that wrong.

[Gandalf]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

[Alpha]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

I had it 114-113 Reid when I watched it. But yeah Calzaghe had the better career.

[Gandalf]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

I had it 114-113 Reid when I watched it. But yeah Calzaghe had the better career.

That's fair enough. It was a close fight and on the whole one of Calzaghe's lesser performances. Calzaghe was excellent in those days too when focused, but with the hand injuries he refined himself into something really different. It could have ended his career and at times seemed to be getting there, but he evolved that style which is hard for any fighter to prepare for. Sometimes it has been leveled that Calzaghe's resume is lacking, but you can flip that quite easily and say 'Well look at Kovalev's. He's been knocking everyone out but there is nobody there that Calzaghe would have had the minimal amount of difficult handling'. I don't like it when people put Calzaghe down because he was awesome and not only that but really gave his money's worth. I sometimes look at fighters filling out rounds or throwing a minimal amount and you never saw that with Calzaghe. Most of his fights are really exciting and when he stepped up he dazzled almost every time. Even at his sloppiest like against Mitchell it was FOTY material. Even in a gritty fight like against spoiler Hopkins he still massively outlanded him landing 232 punches as compared with Kovalev's 166. That was against a really brittle looking BHop and 38 came in the final round so it was something like 10 punches landed a round for 11 rounds. It's dismal really. Yet Kovalev is rated so highly by some, as is Ward who made his name off of Calzaghe leftovers. I rated Kov highly too and thought he was maybe just having an off day against Chilemba and took a breather against Hop, but he really seems to have forgotten how to put people away. He struggles after 6 and he hasn't even thrown a lot of punches. People suggest that Kovalev would stop Calzaghe or Ward would be too 'gifted' and it's absurd really. People are high on these fighters and forget just how good Calzaghe was. Ward and Kovalez are good, but they are no legends like Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Toney.

[Alpha]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

I had it 114-113 Reid when I watched it. But yeah Calzaghe had the better career.

That's fair enough. It was a close fight and on the whole one of Calzaghe's lesser performances. Calzaghe was excellent in those days too when focused, but with the hand injuries he refined himself into something really different. It could have ended his career and at times seemed to be getting there, but he evolved that style which is hard for any fighter to prepare for. Sometimes it has been leveled that Calzaghe's resume is lacking, but you can flip that quite easily and say 'Well look at Kovalev's. He's been knocking everyone out but there is nobody there that Calzaghe would have had the minimal amount of difficult handling'. I don't like it when people put Calzaghe down because he was awesome and not only that but really gave his money's worth. I sometimes look at fighters filling out rounds or throwing a minimal amount and you never saw that with Calzaghe. Most of his fights are really exciting and when he stepped up he dazzled almost every time. Even at his sloppiest like against Mitchell it was FOTY material. Even in a gritty fight like against spoiler Hopkins he still massively outlanded him landing 232 punches as compared with Kovalev's 166. That was against a really brittle looking BHop and 38 came in the final round so it was something like 10 punches landed a round for 11 rounds. It's dismal really. Yet Kovalev is rated so highly by some, as is Ward who made his name off of Calzaghe leftovers. I rated Kov highly too and thought he was maybe just having an off day against Chilemba and took a breather against Hop, but he really seems to have forgotten how to put people away. He struggles after 6 and he hasn't even thrown a lot of punches. People suggest that Kovalev would stop Calzaghe or Ward would be too 'gifted' and it's absurd really. People are high on these fighters and forget just how good Calzaghe was. Ward and Kovalez are good, but they are no legends like Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Toney.

Nice post. Totally agree. I feel bad for Reid. He was robbed against Ottke.

[Gandalf]

Reid had a good career. Calzaghe greatness aside I think Lomachenko is the best fighter in the world. He has variety, all the punches, and most importantly has output. You cannot be considered the best throwing 30 punches a round, you have to double or triple it. Aim for the sky with volume. It's what I like. James Toney comeback life is good.

[powerpuncher]

So you give calzaghe a pass for a broken hand against Reid? What about when ward still dominated froch with a broken hand?

Calzaghe wouldn't be throwing 100 punches a round against ward. Ward slows people down. It's like what mayweather does. He lowers his opponents output by a lot. And the difference is that calzaghe isn't a come forward brawler who just walks through punches. He doesn't just walk through punches. He has gotten hurt multiple times throughout his career.

I don't mind you thinking that calzaghe is great, but he best win by far was hopkins which was close. Other than that, he didn't beat anybody that good. I was never that impressed with him.

And once again, ward is an elite fighter in any era. He is potentially the best p4p fighter in the world right now. If he beats kovalev convincingly this time around, he should be undisputed #1. Nobody ever even considered calzaghe near that good when he was fighting other than a few fans from Wales.