Twin Towers WTC v Grenfell Tower

[walrus]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.

Ha ha all u do is talk about America like you are an investigator for the economist but one who is addicted to LSD

[El Kabong]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.

OH you mean you're not going to call me a (and I quote) "fucking horrible heartless husk of a cunt" again?


I wouldn't assume anything, but when my legitimate questions are met with silence or in some cases a "Wow" (and a "Wow" alone) then I take the hint and stop asking the questions.


Or you COULD answer the questions I ask without personally attacking me and assuming things about my character or my values as a human being.......but I suppose that like any other question is too much to ask of you.





I'd been all ready to make nice and keep that going, but apparently that is a bridge too far.

[Beanz]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.

OH you mean you're not going to call me a (and I quote) "fucking horrible heartless husk of a cunt" again?


I wouldn't assume anything, but when my legitimate questions are met with silence or in some cases a "Wow" (and a "Wow" alone) then I take the hint and stop asking the questions.


Or you COULD answer the questions I ask without personally attacking me and assuming things about my character or my values as a human being.......but I suppose that like any other question is too much to ask of you.





I'd been all ready to make nice and keep that going, but apparently that is a bridge too far.

That comment was addressed to Miles. I really don't understand your problem with people expressing themselves and the concept of free speech. Are you not passionate about anything but hating lefties? To be honest you are all a bit fucking weird. You, Miles, Brockton even Walrus sometimes. Why can you not all have your own opinions ? Why are you all so miserable and moany? I don't get it. Constant outrage to the point where despite none of you living in this country you are pissed about victims of a fire being rehomed in social housing. Housing built for people exactly like them. Not mansions stolen from the fucking Queen. Mind blowing.


You all seem to look for the negative in absolutely everything. No empathy, no fucking common sense, no idea.

[Beanz]

Miles, you rattle on about your hero Jeremy "uncontrolled immigration" Corbyn and imprisoning Tony Blair for destroying the middle east yet it's Blair who you want as your neighbour not his "victims."

Now I don't have a problem with your view but at least accept what you are. Don't try and portray some righteous/virtuous stance when your attitude is - fuck everyone else as long as i'm alright. You have many pals on here - like DLA - that share your values but he fully accepts he's a brutal cunt.

Given the chance of a semi-decent education and a couple of years dossing around at university anyone could do your job. That's not criticism, i'm sure you're terrific at speaking English, but it is something anyone, regardless of physical health, from any walk of society could do... given the chance.

You mustn't be thinking straight as your reasoning appears to be somewhat wonky.

I like Jeremy Corbyn because he stands for decent things like increasing wages for poor people, building social housing, protecting key services and bringing back others, amongst other policies. I am not against social housing. I understand its benefits. I have lived in it too, but what I also understand is that around homelessness and social housing there are also a lot of unsavory elements. Kids comes across junkies, prostitutes, teenage Mums, the work shy, alcoholics, violence, gangs, abuse, etc. Of course there are a lot of decent people going through unfortunate things and I totally understand that, but one shouldn't delude onself that it is all happy, salt of the earth people pulling together as one happy family. Given the choice most would want to get out and raise their kids away from the more unsavory elements. That isn't a difficult thing to understand. It doesn't make anyone a Blairite. I don't live in a particularly rich area, I don't live around politicians, what I live around is probably different culturally as rich or poor you do not see teenage single Mums, junkies, the work shy, gangs etc. Is it so bad to say that you wouldn't want to be around such negative influences?

I don't think just about anyone can do my job and that is not even talking myself up. First off to even start on the lowest rung, you must move to an alien culture and teach 30 hours a week in a classroom teaching kids with minimal prep time. That isn't easy work for anyone and in fact it is a reason most do not last more than a year or two. People burn out quickly and need the comfort of home life again. Not anyone can do it over an extended time, it is a select few.

If you are talking about what I do now, then again not everyone is able to get a distinction at a good University in the first place. Not everyone is able to write a dissertation based on unique research and get a first for their troubles. Not every bob cunt can work through tomes such as Perspectives on pedagogic grammar, Advances in spoken discourse analysis, Sociolinguistics, Fundamental considerations in language testing, among others. These are difficult works and the average bloke reading The Sun really wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. He would spend an aftenoon on a paragraph. Don't get me wrong, I find it heavy going too. It is! I know a lot of the people I grew up with who didn't even make it to Uni and work in bars etc, and they wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't blame them. Of course they don't.

Then even to do what I do now, well the ladder has been raised. You cannot even start a good Uni job without 3 years of Uni experiences. Well, how do you get it unless you are given a chance? Not every one can do it. If you think teaching is about speaking English, then you are also very misguided. You need to be versed in the rules of language, have the ability to explain complex terms, be able to deliver a lecture, devise a syllabus, etc. It's really not that easy. From next year I also have to publish. Again, not so easy. How many two bob cunts can even consider such a thing. "You just got to write a paper mate, anyone can do it".....sure they can.

Miles get down off your high horse for one second and just read the crap you write. You are obsessed with single mums and the idea that every fucker but you in social housing must be a feckless thick as shit no hoper. It's just a fantasy that makes you feel better. It's not true.

[Beanz]

That's the thing Beanz. I don't think I am particularly miserable about anything. However, I do reflect on my upbringing and do understand how and where it all went wrong. It was great to move into social housing after 2 years of homelessness, but I also saw that it was in a bad place and you aren't surrounded by the best people. It's as simple as that when it comes to what we are arguing here. My comment was in response to Walrus and I agreed that diversity is not always good. I have cited divorces, teenage Mums, drugs, violence etc as not good for kids. Maybe you are still cool with those unsavory elements, but now that I am no longer around any of it and see that life is peaceful and that there is no whiff of violence on every street corner, I will speak of its virtues. I am meant to be some kind of bad guy, lacking in empathy, spitting on the poor people and I just don't see it like that. I support council housing, I support better wages for the poor, I support a system where housing benefits are eventually abolished, all that stuff. But I also think the dodgy elements of society should sort themselves out too because they tend not to and often pass the habits on to their children.

Again you seem obsessed with diversity. It's in every thread. What the fuck does it have to do with this thread and actually what does it have to do with divorces, teenage mums, drugs, violence? Do you not think they have teenage mums or take drugs or get divorced or have any violence on middle class estates? You are tripping your nut off if you think the dodgy elements of society are confined to the poor.

[TitoFan]

Fuel that is proven by fact to not reach temperatures that can melt steel.
One fire started on the 4th floor then went upwards gutting the entire building and burning for 15 plus hours, while the other was hit high up, burned for 2 hours but managed to damage the untouched steel structure thousands of feet below.

There was also no steel in the London building just concrete.

Come on people open your eyes.

Steel doesn't have to MELT for it to lose it's structural integrity






But whatever

Sorry to get back to the original intent of the thread, but this is by far the best post in it.

[Beanz]

Miles, you rattle on about your hero Jeremy "uncontrolled immigration" Corbyn and imprisoning Tony Blair for destroying the middle east yet it's Blair who you want as your neighbour not his "victims."

Now I don't have a problem with your view but at least accept what you are. Don't try and portray some righteous/virtuous stance when your attitude is - fuck everyone else as long as i'm alright. You have many pals on here - like DLA - that share your values but he fully accepts he's a brutal cunt.

Given the chance of a semi-decent education and a couple of years dossing around at university anyone could do your job. That's not criticism, i'm sure you're terrific at speaking English, but it is something anyone, regardless of physical health, from any walk of society could do... given the chance.

You mustn't be thinking straight as your reasoning appears to be somewhat wonky.

I like Jeremy Corbyn because he stands for decent things like increasing wages for poor people, building social housing, protecting key services and bringing back others, amongst other policies. I am not against social housing. I understand its benefits. I have lived in it too, but what I also understand is that around homelessness and social housing there are also a lot of unsavory elements. Kids comes across junkies, prostitutes, teenage Mums, the work shy, alcoholics, violence, gangs, abuse, etc. Of course there are a lot of decent people going through unfortunate things and I totally understand that, but one shouldn't delude onself that it is all happy, salt of the earth people pulling together as one happy family. Given the choice most would want to get out and raise their kids away from the more unsavory elements. That isn't a difficult thing to understand. It doesn't make anyone a Blairite. I don't live in a particularly rich area, I don't live around politicians, what I live around is probably different culturally as rich or poor you do not see teenage single Mums, junkies, the work shy, gangs etc. Is it so bad to say that you wouldn't want to be around such negative influences?

I don't think just about anyone can do my job and that is not even talking myself up. First off to even start on the lowest rung, you must move to an alien culture and teach 30 hours a week in a classroom teaching kids with minimal prep time. That isn't easy work for anyone and in fact it is a reason most do not last more than a year or two. People burn out quickly and need the comfort of home life again. Not anyone can do it over an extended time, it is a select few.

If you are talking about what I do now, then again not everyone is able to get a distinction at a good University in the first place. Not everyone is able to write a dissertation based on unique research and get a first for their troubles. Not every bob cunt can work through tomes such as Perspectives on pedagogic grammar, Advances in spoken discourse analysis, Sociolinguistics, Fundamental considerations in language testing, among others. These are difficult works and the average bloke reading The Sun really wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. He would spend an aftenoon on a paragraph. Don't get me wrong, I find it heavy going too. It is! I know a lot of the people I grew up with who didn't even make it to Uni and work in bars etc, and they wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't blame them. Of course they don't.

Then even to do what I do now, well the ladder has been raised. You cannot even start a good Uni job without 3 years of Uni experiences. Well, how do you get it unless you are given a chance? Not every one can do it. If you think teaching is about speaking English, then you are also very misguided. You need to be versed in the rules of language, have the ability to explain complex terms, be able to deliver a lecture, devise a syllabus, etc. It's really not that easy. From next year I also have to publish. Again, not so easy. How many two bob cunts can even consider such a thing. "You just got to write a paper mate, anyone can do it".....sure they can.

Miles get down off your high horse for one second and just read the crap you write. You are obsessed with single mums and the idea that every fucker but you in social housing must be a feckless thick as shit no hoper. It's just a fantasy that makes you feel better. It's not true.

What I write is well explained and any sensible person will understand it. Even a couple of typing errors for you to chew over. That you refuse to even consider any of the points is on you. You know full well that there are bad elements in council estates, but you won't admit to any of it. That is the fantasy.

Won't admit to any of what? Where have I denied that? You have started making stuff up now too then?

[Gandalf]

That's the thing Beanz. I don't think I am particularly miserable about anything. However, I do reflect on my upbringing and do understand how and where it all went wrong. It was great to move into social housing after 2 years of homelessness, but I also saw that it was in a bad place and you aren't surrounded by the best people. It's as simple as that when it comes to what we are arguing here. My comment was in response to Walrus and I agreed that diversity is not always good. I have cited divorces, teenage Mums, drugs, violence etc as not good for kids. Maybe you are still cool with those unsavory elements, but now that I am no longer around any of it and see that life is peaceful and that there is no whiff of violence on every street corner, I will speak of its virtues. I am meant to be some kind of bad guy, lacking in empathy, spitting on the poor people and I just don't see it like that. I support council housing, I support better wages for the poor, I support a system where housing benefits are eventually abolished, all that stuff. But I also think the dodgy elements of society should sort themselves out too because they tend not to and often pass the habits on to their children.

Again you seem obsessed with diversity. It's in every thread. What the fuck does it have to do with this thread and actually what does it have to do with divorces, teenage mums, drugs, violence? Do you not think they have teenage mums or take drugs or get divorced or have any violence on middle class estates? You are tripping your nut off if you think the dodgy elements of society are confined to the poor.

Because, like duh, that is what Walrus brought up. The thread was already on a tangent.

You really have issues with reading comprehension. I said the differences I am seeing are cultural meaning they do not transcend class, but culture. I'm in an ordinary neighborhood and guess what ......no teenage Mums, druggies, work shy, violence, gangs etc. It is cultural. You would only understand it if you took years of your life out to actually experience it.

[Gandalf]

Miles, you rattle on about your hero Jeremy "uncontrolled immigration" Corbyn and imprisoning Tony Blair for destroying the middle east yet it's Blair who you want as your neighbour not his "victims."

Now I don't have a problem with your view but at least accept what you are. Don't try and portray some righteous/virtuous stance when your attitude is - fuck everyone else as long as i'm alright. You have many pals on here - like DLA - that share your values but he fully accepts he's a brutal cunt.

Given the chance of a semi-decent education and a couple of years dossing around at university anyone could do your job. That's not criticism, i'm sure you're terrific at speaking English, but it is something anyone, regardless of physical health, from any walk of society could do... given the chance.

You mustn't be thinking straight as your reasoning appears to be somewhat wonky.

I like Jeremy Corbyn because he stands for decent things like increasing wages for poor people, building social housing, protecting key services and bringing back others, amongst other policies. I am not against social housing. I understand its benefits. I have lived in it too, but what I also understand is that around homelessness and social housing there are also a lot of unsavory elements. Kids comes across junkies, prostitutes, teenage Mums, the work shy, alcoholics, violence, gangs, abuse, etc. Of course there are a lot of decent people going through unfortunate things and I totally understand that, but one shouldn't delude onself that it is all happy, salt of the earth people pulling together as one happy family. Given the choice most would want to get out and raise their kids away from the more unsavory elements. That isn't a difficult thing to understand. It doesn't make anyone a Blairite. I don't live in a particularly rich area, I don't live around politicians, what I live around is probably different culturally as rich or poor you do not see teenage single Mums, junkies, the work shy, gangs etc. Is it so bad to say that you wouldn't want to be around such negative influences?

I don't think just about anyone can do my job and that is not even talking myself up. First off to even start on the lowest rung, you must move to an alien culture and teach 30 hours a week in a classroom teaching kids with minimal prep time. That isn't easy work for anyone and in fact it is a reason most do not last more than a year or two. People burn out quickly and need the comfort of home life again. Not anyone can do it over an extended time, it is a select few.

If you are talking about what I do now, then again not everyone is able to get a distinction at a good University in the first place. Not everyone is able to write a dissertation based on unique research and get a first for their troubles. Not every bob cunt can work through tomes such as Perspectives on pedagogic grammar, Advances in spoken discourse analysis, Sociolinguistics, Fundamental considerations in language testing, among others. These are difficult works and the average bloke reading The Sun really wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. He would spend an aftenoon on a paragraph. Don't get me wrong, I find it heavy going too. It is! I know a lot of the people I grew up with who didn't even make it to Uni and work in bars etc, and they wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't blame them. Of course they don't.

Then even to do what I do now, well the ladder has been raised. You cannot even start a good Uni job without 3 years of Uni experiences. Well, how do you get it unless you are given a chance? Not every one can do it. If you think teaching is about speaking English, then you are also very misguided. You need to be versed in the rules of language, have the ability to explain complex terms, be able to deliver a lecture, devise a syllabus, etc. It's really not that easy. From next year I also have to publish. Again, not so easy. How many two bob cunts can even consider such a thing. "You just got to write a paper mate, anyone can do it".....sure they can.

Miles get down off your high horse for one second and just read the crap you write. You are obsessed with single mums and the idea that every fucker but you in social housing must be a feckless thick as shit no hoper. It's just a fantasy that makes you feel better. It's not true.

What I write is well explained and any sensible person will understand it. Even a couple of typing errors for you to chew over. That you refuse to even consider any of the points is on you. You know full well that there are bad elements in council estates, but you won't admit to any of it. That is the fantasy.

Won't admit to any of what? Where have I denied that? You have started making stuff up now too then?

Fine, council estates are all full of beautiful people who make the best choices in life and we all need more empathy. Fine, got it.

[Beanz]

Miles, you rattle on about your hero Jeremy "uncontrolled immigration" Corbyn and imprisoning Tony Blair for destroying the middle east yet it's Blair who you want as your neighbour not his "victims."

Now I don't have a problem with your view but at least accept what you are. Don't try and portray some righteous/virtuous stance when your attitude is - fuck everyone else as long as i'm alright. You have many pals on here - like DLA - that share your values but he fully accepts he's a brutal cunt.

Given the chance of a semi-decent education and a couple of years dossing around at university anyone could do your job. That's not criticism, i'm sure you're terrific at speaking English, but it is something anyone, regardless of physical health, from any walk of society could do... given the chance.

You mustn't be thinking straight as your reasoning appears to be somewhat wonky.

I like Jeremy Corbyn because he stands for decent things like increasing wages for poor people, building social housing, protecting key services and bringing back others, amongst other policies. I am not against social housing. I understand its benefits. I have lived in it too, but what I also understand is that around homelessness and social housing there are also a lot of unsavory elements. Kids comes across junkies, prostitutes, teenage Mums, the work shy, alcoholics, violence, gangs, abuse, etc. Of course there are a lot of decent people going through unfortunate things and I totally understand that, but one shouldn't delude onself that it is all happy, salt of the earth people pulling together as one happy family. Given the choice most would want to get out and raise their kids away from the more unsavory elements. That isn't a difficult thing to understand. It doesn't make anyone a Blairite. I don't live in a particularly rich area, I don't live around politicians, what I live around is probably different culturally as rich or poor you do not see teenage single Mums, junkies, the work shy, gangs etc. Is it so bad to say that you wouldn't want to be around such negative influences?

I don't think just about anyone can do my job and that is not even talking myself up. First off to even start on the lowest rung, you must move to an alien culture and teach 30 hours a week in a classroom teaching kids with minimal prep time. That isn't easy work for anyone and in fact it is a reason most do not last more than a year or two. People burn out quickly and need the comfort of home life again. Not anyone can do it over an extended time, it is a select few.

If you are talking about what I do now, then again not everyone is able to get a distinction at a good University in the first place. Not everyone is able to write a dissertation based on unique research and get a first for their troubles. Not every bob cunt can work through tomes such as Perspectives on pedagogic grammar, Advances in spoken discourse analysis, Sociolinguistics, Fundamental considerations in language testing, among others. These are difficult works and the average bloke reading The Sun really wouldn't have a clue what to do with it. He would spend an aftenoon on a paragraph. Don't get me wrong, I find it heavy going too. It is! I know a lot of the people I grew up with who didn't even make it to Uni and work in bars etc, and they wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't blame them. Of course they don't.

Then even to do what I do now, well the ladder has been raised. You cannot even start a good Uni job without 3 years of Uni experiences. Well, how do you get it unless you are given a chance? Not every one can do it. If you think teaching is about speaking English, then you are also very misguided. You need to be versed in the rules of language, have the ability to explain complex terms, be able to deliver a lecture, devise a syllabus, etc. It's really not that easy. From next year I also have to publish. Again, not so easy. How many two bob cunts can even consider such a thing. "You just got to write a paper mate, anyone can do it".....sure they can.

Miles get down off your high horse for one second and just read the crap you write. You are obsessed with single mums and the idea that every fucker but you in social housing must be a feckless thick as shit no hoper. It's just a fantasy that makes you feel better. It's not true.

What I write is well explained and any sensible person will understand it. Even a couple of typing errors for you to chew over. That you refuse to even consider any of the points is on you. You know full well that there are bad elements in council estates, but you won't admit to any of it. That is the fantasy.

Won't admit to any of what? Where have I denied that? You have started making stuff up now too then?

Fine, council estates are all full of beautiful people who make the best choices in life and we all need more empathy. Fine, got it.

You said -

"Trust me. If you put 30 estate families in my building with their petty crime, smoking, weed etc, then things would turn to shit pretty quickly. Sometimes 'diversity' is the last thing you need. Let a lawyer into the building and maybe he can have a kid, but a lawyer, plus 30 other families, 10 of them not even working, the others taking local jobs. It does not work and I wouldn't want them to try it. It would make life worse for the local population and it would make my life worse too. I don't want them. Thankfully those people mostly have no way of getting in."


So yeah..considering that we are talking about victims of a fire in which 79 people died, many of home have been homeless since, you probably could use some more empathy

[walrus]

I read a recent study saying empathy is a learned behavior

[Gandalf]

You might have been talking about a fire that killed 79 people, but me and Walrus were not and that is something that should be computing in your head. I stand by that statement as an experiential view about life on council estates. I understand that council estates are full of decent people too, but the unsavory elements are what stick in the mind and unfortunately there is a lot of it. Is it so bad to not want drug dealers in your community? Or have less teenage Mums? Or not have kids loitering outside the shop harrassing old people? I sometimes think it is topsy turvy land. Actually it is, I don't see any of that in my 'fantasy' world.

[Gandalf]

On a more serious note though. I have only just read the news and it is appalling what is going on, not only with the fire, but the way so many buildings appear to be at risk. There appears to be something deeply wrong with how councils are behaving. Also why are they stockpiling tens of millions of pounds like corporations? Councils exist for one reason only, to serve the community. Council tax is too high anyway and targets the rich the least, so to deprive the poor further by cost cutting and hoarding money is pretty disgusting. Again, it is important to compare and contrast. Everyone lives in a high rise out here and local taxes are very, very low and buildings are very safe. Maybe the UK could import some of the technology and models from overseas as they don't have a very good history when it comes to high rises as documented by Adam Curtis in the 1980's. I say that quite seriously as people deserve a lot better than what they are getting.

[El Kabong]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.

OH you mean you're not going to call me a (and I quote) "fucking horrible heartless husk of a cunt" again?


I wouldn't assume anything, but when my legitimate questions are met with silence or in some cases a "Wow" (and a "Wow" alone) then I take the hint and stop asking the questions.


Or you COULD answer the questions I ask without personally attacking me and assuming things about my character or my values as a human being.......but I suppose that like any other question is too much to ask of you.





I'd been all ready to make nice and keep that going, but apparently that is a bridge too far.

That comment was addressed to Miles. I really don't understand your problem with people expressing themselves and the concept of free speech. Are you not passionate about anything but hating lefties? To be honest you are all a bit fucking weird. You, Miles, Brockton even Walrus sometimes. Why can you not all have your own opinions ? Why are you all so miserable and moany? I don't get it. Constant outrage to the point where despite none of you living in this country you are pissed about victims of a fire being rehomed in social housing. Housing built for people exactly like them. Not mansions stolen from the fucking Queen. Mind blowing.


You all seem to look for the negative in absolutely everything. No empathy, no fucking common sense, no idea.

How convenient for you.

Speak your mind that is free but don't assume there's no response or rebuttal.

Yes, yes we all understand nobody has a bleeding heart as big as yours.

[Beanz]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.

OH you mean you're not going to call me a (and I quote) "fucking horrible heartless husk of a cunt" again?


I wouldn't assume anything, but when my legitimate questions are met with silence or in some cases a "Wow" (and a "Wow" alone) then I take the hint and stop asking the questions.


Or you COULD answer the questions I ask without personally attacking me and assuming things about my character or my values as a human being.......but I suppose that like any other question is too much to ask of you.





I'd been all ready to make nice and keep that going, but apparently that is a bridge too far.

That comment was addressed to Miles. I really don't understand your problem with people expressing themselves and the concept of free speech. Are you not passionate about anything but hating lefties? To be honest you are all a bit fucking weird. You, Miles, Brockton even Walrus sometimes. Why can you not all have your own opinions ? Why are you all so miserable and moany? I don't get it. Constant outrage to the point where despite none of you living in this country you are pissed about victims of a fire being rehomed in social housing. Housing built for people exactly like them. Not mansions stolen from the fucking Queen. Mind blowing.


You all seem to look for the negative in absolutely everything. No empathy, no fucking common sense, no idea.

How convenient for you.

Speak your mind that is free but don't assume there's no response or rebuttal.

Yes, yes we all understand nobody has a bleeding heart as big as yours.

Fuck off with that nonsense. This is not some kind of competition or PC contest it's pretty basic fundamental common sense and empathy. We are talking about re-homing victims of a tragedy in which possibly hundreds died. Some of whom have been sleeping in cars. Nobody has said you can't respond, but when you spout off bollocks about private property being seized by some communist conspiracy then you can expect people to correct you. Pick your battles man, you are all just coming across as heartless arrogant pricks right now.