Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?

[Gandalf]

Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.

I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.

I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!

I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.

In your opinion, why are people staying poor?

[Gandalf]

And to be more specific my question is more about developed nations rather than developing or poor nations. In developed nations we have huge cities teeming with different kinds of work from teaching, to dentistry, to animal care, to nursing, to plumbing to whatever, there just seems to be such a plethora of things out there to do. One thing I do get is what Brock said about the lack of guidance from parents which is very true. I mean, if you are not in medical school by 25 then you are unlikely to ever be a doctor. Yet still, there is always something someone can do somewhere and with a bit of self responsibility, I am not sure what the issue is. This is actually one reason I would like to see immigration controlled to give members of nation states a chance or a kick up the bum.

[Spicoli]

Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing .

[Gandalf]

Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing .

It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.

Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?

[Spicoli]

Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing .

It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.

Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?

Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.

Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes .

[Fenster]

So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.

The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.

The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.

Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.

[Dark Lord Al]

So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.

The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.

The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.

Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.

Yes and most of them are from backgrounds where the parents had no money and had families they couldn't afford.
We are now seeing the affects of that on the streets of London, and we have the liberal do gooders to thank, no discipline in schools and soft punishment for crime.

[Gandalf]

Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing .

It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.

Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?

Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.

Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes .

Totally. I look at my younger self and there were poor decisions too. You chalk it up as experience and try to do better. That is where I think people quite often choose poverty and just refuse to change patterns of behavior. Either you sort yourself out or you don't. I used to spend a lot of my income on going out and looking good. It was fun, but quite definitely choosing to be poor.

[Gandalf]

So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.

The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.

The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.

Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.

I could afford it, but not as a regular hobby and personally I don't think it is worth it as I am a fussy eater. Al likes his food, so a good choice for him. Me, not so much.

It's not about being boring either. For me it is about moderation. I used to be a serious social animal and would blow through money like there is no tomorrow. However that too gets boring over time and your liver won't respect you.

And watches and bling? That is more Walrus and good for him too. For me, I just like nice scenery, a good book, and a nice cup of the finest quality ginseng tea.

[Spicoli]

Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing .

It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.

Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?

Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.

Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes .

Totally. I look at my younger self and there were poor decisions too. You chalk it up as experience and try to do better. That is where I think people quite often choose poverty and just refuse to change patterns of behavior. Either you sort yourself out or you don't. I used to spend a lot of my income on going out and looking good. It was fun, but quite definitely choosing to be poor.

We're responsible for our own actions. Not so sure I'd say everyone categorized 'poor' as choosing it as it's more a conditioning a lot of people seem to settle into. Some become content in their means. Some are idiots and carry 5 credit cards in their 20's. Everyone has different circumstances and roads traveled but truth is when you're young you know zero about hindsight and investment (career, educational or otherwise). Ultimately it's human instinct to better a condition if you're in a struggle, should be at least.

[Beanz]

Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.

I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.

I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!

I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.

In your opinion, why are people staying poor?

You got called a racist, which is exactly what you are, because you said

"Black people choose to be poor"


The most telling part of you whole clusterfuck of an opening post is

"I can only assume"


It speaks volumes. You are so disconnected from the reality of most people's lives in your little apartment in SK with all that free time on your hands that you are basically filling your time blaming others for your own ennui.

It is on one level unspeakably sad and I feel some empathy for anyone left that alone with that kind of mindset, but I have little sympathy for the incredibly arrogant and self absorbed way you are choosing to deal with it. I doubt very much that you have been as poor as anyone on the forum. It might make you feel better but even being homeless in the west, is not the same as it is in many other countries, and before it became so hostile Saddo must have had people posting who never had the safety nets the west provide.

It would be comforting to think you were just a moron but that is obviously not the case. All you seem to do is spend your time hating on people with very little. The poor, refugees, the disabled, single mothers...it is kind of a twisted agenda with which to concern yourself, when your only answer seem to be, not only that they deserve it, but they choose it too.

Fucking hell and people think i have issues

[Gandalf]

Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.

I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.

I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!

I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.

In your opinion, why are people staying poor?

You got called a racist, which is exactly what you are, because you said

"Black people choose to be poor"


The most telling part of you whole clusterfuck of an opening post is

"I can only assume"


It speaks volumes. You are so disconnected from the reality of most people's lives in your little apartment in SK with all that free time on your hands that you are basically filling your time blaming others for your own ennui.

It is on one level unspeakably sad and I feel some empathy for anyone left that alone with that kind of mindset, but I have little sympathy for the incredibly arrogant and self absorbed way you are choosing to deal with it. I doubt very much that you have been as poor as anyone on the forum. It might make you feel better but even being homeless in the west, is not the same as it is in many other countries, and before it became so hostile Saddo must have had people posting who never had the safety nets the west provide.

It would be comforting to think you were just a moron but that is obviously not the case. All you seem to do is spend your time hating on people with very little. The poor, refugees, the disabled, single mothers...it is kind of a twisted agenda with which to concern yourself, when your only answer seem to be, not only that they deserve it, but they choose it too.

Fucking hell and people think i have issues

So, who on the forum has been as poor, Oh Lawrence of the leafy suburbs of Plymouth with billboards all around the city who has his own little bungalow? I was very poor indeed, but it isn't a competition.

You should not project so much. It was a valid question and all you have in return is a character assassination because I asked the genuine question as to why people stay poor. If someone asks me why a group of people is poor I tend to think it boils down to personal choice and a lack of self responsibility. I am happy to be convinced that it is not personal choice, but so far in this thread all we have is that it is indeed personal choice.

I have my own youthful spending, I have seen hundreds of people in betting offices, I have seen the statistics of personal debt loads, I see the birth rates in the Philippines. All of these things are personal choices. It does not mean one hates anyone at all. To be poor is a state of being and it is not necessarily a question of good or bad. In my opinion it is not bad at all if you are not hurting others by your own recklessness. To drink gamble or drink or drug to oblivion and only be accountable to the self is probably quite fine.

Isn't that what you were saying about Brock too? That it was about his 'bitterness' and 'lack of self responsibility' that held him back? Isn't it even more ridiculous to blame slavery that was abolished hundreds of years ago for one's own inability to make sensible decisions in the here and now? You cannot have it both ways. If one directs ire at parents at least that is often a valid and quantifiable target.

And where did the hostility spring from? Are your own posts not responsible for plenty of that?

[TitoFan]

TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).

It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"

Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.

Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."

But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.

You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.

Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.

So little Johnny (I always use that name ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.

So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.

[Gandalf]

True, Tito but if I branch out and bring in IQ and things of this nature it tends to get even more argumentative, but Beanz seens to be looking for a fight. I have my own thoughts on why all too many cannot get ahead and it boils down to being a bit thick, maybe crappy choices and being full of vice. People generally choose their poverty in the West, but a lack of nurturing certainly plays a part in making that happen too.

The question is really for others as my own conclusions are a bit grim and bad news. I want to hear other ideas just to see what gets thrown out.

[Gandalf]

Will address your points tomorrow if I have time. Your posts always seem to catch me at night.