Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
Appreciate the thought experiment, Lyle. Two things though. One.... it's somewhat unlikely anyone any time soon will invent something that will "halve the pollution while increasing production" just like that. If they did, they would surely not "draw the ire of the government."

Two... what has happened so far? We've had technologies available for awhile. Are industries rushing Black Friday style to get it and implement it because they're dying to cut their pollution in half? Maybe in some fantasy world, but not in this one. Industry by and large worships at one altar. And that's the one painted green with dollar signs all over it. Pollution is just a bothersome side effect that needs policing by that very government you didn't want to bring up.

If this Utopian scenario you've painted was going to happen, it would have already happened. The technology has been available for years. But it's either too cumbersome.... "our competitors don't use it"..... "we can squeeze 2% more widgets out the door without it"..... "why aren't the Chinese doing it"....... blah, blah, blah..... ad nauseaum.

We have some basic thought differences here. You feel industry, left alone, will somehow gravitate to those measures and technologies that will eventually curb pollution and clean up the planet.

I don't.
Well you miss the point I was making. Halving the emissions ALLOWS for more production, it doesn't automatically make it happen. And the "ire of the government" would only be drawn IF the increased production MEANT more pollution/emissions.

What technologies aren't being utilized in terms of cleaning up emissions? The ones which aren't cost effective. The fix HAS to be cost effective or the industry isn't going to implement them.

Well the Chinese are big into manufacturing because they don't have the EPA hoops to jump through, they don't give a single solitary fuck about their environment or the working conditions of their subjects (they aren't citizens)....how do we handle this? Well we stop making it worth a company's while to manufacture things in China via tariffs and taxation, ditto with India.


I feel that industry can be guided gently rather than beaten into submission. If you can't make a profit there's not going to be an industry fullstop.

There has to be a push toward gearing up efforts for pollution prevention/remediation technology. Monetary incentives to tech companies working on these... strict and enforceable regulations on industry to ensure they're complying with environment-preserving goals... less lip service to the environment and more measurable actions. Industry can't be left on its own (IMO) to decide whether or not to implement proven technologies meant to preserve the environment. That's where we'll continue to disagree. The whole capitalism model which involves damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead in the name of maximizing profits would just have to be slightly tweaked in order to accommodate the greater good, which involves our self-preservation and avoiding plunging the world into a toxic-spewing dump, where we can't even keep the vast oceans safe.

We'll agree on what to do with the Chinese because, well...... it's a huge country and whatever they do affects the rest of the world disproportionately. It's wrong to have the rest of the world minding its P's and Q's regarding the environment, only to have the Chinese continue to fuck it all up because they have this need to "catch up."

We'll only halfway agree on how to deal with industry. Gentle guidance is a wonderful idea. How has that worked so far? We have real, tangible pollution problems. Of an embarrassing scale, really. It's like going to a beach and find it ankle-deep in litter. You feel a sense of embarrassment for humankind. As with any individual and/or group or organization, sometimes you have to drop the "pretty please" and give a couple of well-placed whacks.