Kessler-Miranda Will Not Happen

[CFH]

Well Dude since you want me to make a shoot directly towards you I'll do so



Alright Mundine has fought the harder then Ottke punching Danny Green and Antawn Echols AND Kessler and his chin stood up just fine and he wasn't ever wobbled, so what does getting knocked out by Ottke when he had exhausted himself and was relatively new to the sport.

If it meant anything wouldnt he have been knocked out by Green or Echols or KESSLER? Yeah thats what I thought, lets go on to your next statement.



Its your opinion that Kessler has a harder right hand. I think Mundine has a better one.

Kessler wouldn't get credit for beating Miranda. And I am asking why doesnt MIRANDA fight Mundine, not why should Kessler fight him again.

So basically you're saying that Kessler should go the easy route and face Miranda because Miranda has a name and is somewhat feared? Look Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda, Miranda is flawed to the point that Kessler would pick him apart and beat him. And when he does you know exactly what the boxing people will be saying exactly what I'm saying now.




Its a better fight for him then Kessler and puts him more into the super middleweight picture and gives him a good name. I say Adrande because I think that Miranda could beat him and he fights more of the style that Miranda could fight better against as opposed to throwing him in with Kessler and getting him systematically picked apart. Who says he has to wait? Fight another fight on ESPN then fight Adrande on HBO, that would set up a fight with him and Kessler which would mean more then it would now. And if you disagree with that I suggest you give me a better plan.




Fact is he lost both times, no matter how you slice it he lost one, granted the first was controversial, But there's no way you can erase getting knocked out like he did against Pavlik and he hasn't fought a puncher since then. And before you try to say that "then why can you erase Mundines loss to Ottke" easily, Mundine went on to face punchers including Kessler with little problem when it came to his chin and won a world title twice while he was at it, if he was the same Mundine that got stopped by Ottke do you think he'd have been as successful after? There is no proof that Miranda isn't the same Miranda that lost to Pavlik. I haven't seen any improvement in his style since then, he fights the same, so what he KO'd banks, he has always been a KO puncher, how does that say how he would do against Kessler? Please tell me.



Like I said before dude it wasn't a direct response to you, however THIS is, so you can respond accordingly.




Who heard of Banks before the contender?

Green, Echols, Soliman, Green are ALL better then anyone Miranda has beaten ESPECIALLY at Super Middleweight. Some for world titles was it not? Name me one champ Miranda has beaten and I'll shut up. Until then, You're just blowing smoke further into a hype train I won't believe.

And before you say "Its not who he beat(Banks) its how he beat him..." Then put it like this, Sam soliman gave Winky Wright a VERY tough fight and had never been stopped. Mundine dominated him and knocked him out. So I'd put Mundine stopping Soliman more impressive then Miranda stopping Banks. Seriously when you mention Mundine's opponents as glorified journeyman yet are trying to place him below Miranda I had to hold back a laugh

I don't know how to break your quote up into seperate sections like you did with mine, so I'll just respond to each of your points here.

None of what you say about Mundines recent opposition changes the fact that he was knocked completely COLD by Ottke. If Sven Ottke can knock someone out, my guess is Miranda would be able as well - IF, and it's a big if, he could land cleanly. If it was simply due to exhaustion like you claim, why did Mundine lay on the canvas for a significant period of time if he was merely exhausted? Because he wasn't exhausted, he was unconscious. He's also been floored several times since then.

Edison Miranda is better known than Mundine (outside of maybe Aus.). Like you say, he has flaws which Kessler will be able to exploit, thus making Kessler look good. If Kessler looks good against a fairly highly-regarded, somewhat feared, and very popular fighter, how will he not be given credit? You still haven't explained why he wouldn't. Regardless of Miranda's faults, he is more well-known, and more highly regarded than Mundine by the majority of people, thus he will be given a ton of credit if he beats Miranda and looks good doing so. Regardless of which fighter (Miranda or Mundine) possess better skill.

Again, to your point about fighting Andrade, why should Miranda have to wait 3 - 4 months MINIMUM for Andrade to be ready to fight? And you want him to take a tune-up on ESPN in the meantime, then fight Andrade, then fight Kessler? So unless Miranda is fighting every 2 months, he should have to wait 1 - 1 1/2 years to fight Kessler? Why would he do that? What if he gets butted and suffers a serious cut or something during the ESPN fight? Whose to say where Kessler will be by that point, or do you expect him to sit idle and wait for Miranda.
Your proposal makes ZERO buisness sense. None. A better proposal would be to forget about Kessler all together if he doesn't want to fight. Miranda could try calling out a Bute or a Bika, or another highly-regarded fighter. I'd still like to see him fight Pascal, but Pascal got spooked. I'd actually also quite like to see a Miranda - Mundine fight, but that doesn't fit what seems to Mundine's plan of fighting guys who pose little threat to him.

You challenge me to name one champ that Miranda has beaten, which isn't really relevent considering Mundine has never beaten a champ either, though almost everyone feels Miranda beat Abraham - a champ. That's one more champ than Mundine has ever beat. And how am I "blowing smoke into a hype machine"? I said I thought Miranda would be beaten by Kessler rather easily, that's a strange way to hype someone up.

You compare the improvement of Mundine since Ottke (which I will grant you, he's vastly improved) to Miranda's improvement since Pavlik. Mundine has fought over 20 times since then, Miranda has fought twice since Pavlik, looking very good in both fights. It remains to be seen how much Miranda has improved, but your point is completely invalid because of the vast difference in time between the Ottke - Mudine fight and the Pavlik -Miranda fight.

Also, when Sam Soliman is the best fighter you can point to Mundine beating, it doesn't make Mundine look very good. Miranda would SMOKE Soliman if they fought. It doesn't matter if Soliman gave Winky a tough fight, styles makes fights, and if Winky had any power he would have had a much easier time with Soliman, and like Amat mentioned, Wright was ill.

I would take Banks over Echols, and maybe over Soliman and Green as well.
Additionally, I don't know how many times I have to say this to you, you keep asking why I think Miranda would be successful against Kessler -
I DO NOT THINK MIRANDA WOULD DO WELL AGAINST KESSLER! So stop acting like that is what I am saying. For fucksake.

Sorry if this is kind of a scattered post, I tried to respond to each of your points, if you need any clarification just ask.

Mundine down several times since Ottke fight? Ok name these several times.
Banks better than Green, Soliman and Echols? U are fucking kidding right?

Did you see Echols last fight? He's finished and he was never that good. He's the only one I definitively said I would pick Banks over. Soliman is old and past it, I think Banks could outbox him. I would probably take Green over Banks, but I don't find Green all that impressive either.
Mudine was down, according to boxrec, against Siaca and Nishizawa. You're right though, I should have said twice instead of several.

[eagle]

I don't know how to break your quote up into seperate sections like you did with mine, so I'll just respond to each of your points here.

None of what you say about Mundines recent opposition changes the fact that he was knocked completely COLD by Ottke. If Sven Ottke can knock someone out, my guess is Miranda would be able as well - IF, and it's a big if, he could land cleanly. If it was simply due to exhaustion like you claim, why did Mundine lay on the canvas for a significant period of time if he was merely exhausted? Because he wasn't exhausted, he was unconscious. He's also been floored several times since then.

Edison Miranda is better known than Mundine (outside of maybe Aus.). Like you say, he has flaws which Kessler will be able to exploit, thus making Kessler look good. If Kessler looks good against a fairly highly-regarded, somewhat feared, and very popular fighter, how will he not be given credit? You still haven't explained why he wouldn't. Regardless of Miranda's faults, he is more well-known, and more highly regarded than Mundine by the majority of people, thus he will be given a ton of credit if he beats Miranda and looks good doing so. Regardless of which fighter (Miranda or Mundine) possess better skill.

Again, to your point about fighting Andrade, why should Miranda have to wait 3 - 4 months MINIMUM for Andrade to be ready to fight? And you want him to take a tune-up on ESPN in the meantime, then fight Andrade, then fight Kessler? So unless Miranda is fighting every 2 months, he should have to wait 1 - 1 1/2 years to fight Kessler? Why would he do that? What if he gets butted and suffers a serious cut or something during the ESPN fight? Whose to say where Kessler will be by that point, or do you expect him to sit idle and wait for Miranda.
Your proposal makes ZERO buisness sense. None. A better proposal would be to forget about Kessler all together if he doesn't want to fight. Miranda could try calling out a Bute or a Bika, or another highly-regarded fighter. I'd still like to see him fight Pascal, but Pascal got spooked. I'd actually also quite like to see a Miranda - Mundine fight, but that doesn't fit what seems to Mundine's plan of fighting guys who pose little threat to him.

You challenge me to name one champ that Miranda has beaten, which isn't really relevent considering Mundine has never beaten a champ either, though almost everyone feels Miranda beat Abraham - a champ. That's one more champ than Mundine has ever beat. And how am I "blowing smoke into a hype machine"? I said I thought Miranda would be beaten by Kessler rather easily, that's a strange way to hype someone up.

You compare the improvement of Mundine since Ottke (which I will grant you, he's vastly improved) to Miranda's improvement since Pavlik. Mundine has fought over 20 times since then, Miranda has fought twice since Pavlik, looking very good in both fights. It remains to be seen how much Miranda has improved, but your point is completely invalid because of the vast difference in time between the Ottke - Mudine fight and the Pavlik -Miranda fight.

Also, when Sam Soliman is the best fighter you can point to Mundine beating, it doesn't make Mundine look very good. Miranda would SMOKE Soliman if they fought. It doesn't matter if Soliman gave Winky a tough fight, styles makes fights, and if Winky had any power he would have had a much easier time with Soliman, and like Amat mentioned, Wright was ill.

I would take Banks over Echols, and maybe over Soliman and Green as well.
Additionally, I don't know how many times I have to say this to you, you keep asking why I think Miranda would be successful against Kessler -
I DO NOT THINK MIRANDA WOULD DO WELL AGAINST KESSLER! So stop acting like that is what I am saying. For fucksake.

Sorry if this is kind of a scattered post, I tried to respond to each of your points, if you need any clarification just ask.

Mundine down several times since Ottke fight? Ok name these several times.
Banks better than Green, Soliman and Echols? U are fucking kidding right?

Did you see Echols last fight? He's finished and he was never that good. He's the only one I definitively said I would pick Banks over. Soliman is old and past it, I think Banks could outbox him. I would probably take Green over Banks, but I don't find Green all that impressive either.
Mudine was down, according to boxrec, against Siaca and Nishizawa. You're right though, I should have said twice instead of several.

Maybe u should stay off Boxrec and actually watch the fights.

When Mundine DESTROYED Soliman, Sam had just pushed Winky to a hard fought victory. He Ko'd iron chinned Soliman who had never been knocked out before.

Danny Green while not being elite is always well prepared and is dangerous opponent for anyone with his power.
Antwun Echols may be shot now, but Mundine fought him in 2003. That version of Echols had just ko'd Charles Brewer in 3, and would have killed Banks.

Actually watch the fights.

[CFH]

Mundine down several times since Ottke fight? Ok name these several times.
Banks better than Green, Soliman and Echols? U are fucking kidding right?

Did you see Echols last fight? He's finished and he was never that good. He's the only one I definitively said I would pick Banks over. Soliman is old and past it, I think Banks could outbox him. I would probably take Green over Banks, but I don't find Green all that impressive either.
Mudine was down, according to boxrec, against Siaca and Nishizawa. You're right though, I should have said twice instead of several.

Maybe u should stay off Boxrec and actually watch the fights.

When Mundine DESTROYED Soliman, Sam had just pushed Winky to a hard fought victory. He Ko'd iron chinned Soliman who had never been knocked out before.

Danny Green while not being elite is always well prepared and is dangerous opponent for anyone with his power.
Antwun Echols may be shot now, but Mundine fought him in 2003. That version of Echols had just ko'd Charles Brewer in 3, and would have killed Banks.

Actually watch the fights.

Boxrec is a mostly reliable way to get information about fights I haven't seen. Like I said, if Winky hadn't been sick or possessed any power, he would have handled Soliman easier. Soliman is always going to cause some problems for fighters without power, but its not like he cannot be overcome.
How would I watch fights that took place years ago involving fighters no one gives a shit about? I've seen a few of Echols fights and I still don't think any version of Echols would have "killed" Banks.

[eagle]

Did you see Echols last fight? He's finished and he was never that good. He's the only one I definitively said I would pick Banks over. Soliman is old and past it, I think Banks could outbox him. I would probably take Green over Banks, but I don't find Green all that impressive either.
Mudine was down, according to boxrec, against Siaca and Nishizawa. You're right though, I should have said twice instead of several.

Maybe u should stay off Boxrec and actually watch the fights.

When Mundine DESTROYED Soliman, Sam had just pushed Winky to a hard fought victory. He Ko'd iron chinned Soliman who had never been knocked out before.

Danny Green while not being elite is always well prepared and is dangerous opponent for anyone with his power.
Antwun Echols may be shot now, but Mundine fought him in 2003. That version of Echols had just ko'd Charles Brewer in 3, and would have killed Banks.

Actually watch the fights.

Boxrec is a mostly reliable way to get information about fights I haven't seen. Like I said, if Winky hadn't been sick or possessed any power, he would have handled Soliman easier. Soliman is always going to cause some problems for fighters without power, but its not like he cannot be overcome.
How would I watch fights that took place years ago involving fighters no one gives a shit about? I've seen a few of Echols fights and I still don't think any version of Echols would have "killed" Banks.

So u saying a guy that Hopkins said was the hardest puncher he has faced, a guy that Ko'd Charles Brewer in 3( Brewer went the distance with Joe C just after) wouldnt handle Banks?
Maybe u cant see the fights now, but dont comment on them then. I tend to not comment on stuff i kno fuck all about.

[CFH]

Maybe u should stay off Boxrec and actually watch the fights.

When Mundine DESTROYED Soliman, Sam had just pushed Winky to a hard fought victory. He Ko'd iron chinned Soliman who had never been knocked out before.

Danny Green while not being elite is always well prepared and is dangerous opponent for anyone with his power.
Antwun Echols may be shot now, but Mundine fought him in 2003. That version of Echols had just ko'd Charles Brewer in 3, and would have killed Banks.

Actually watch the fights.

Boxrec is a mostly reliable way to get information about fights I haven't seen. Like I said, if Winky hadn't been sick or possessed any power, he would have handled Soliman easier. Soliman is always going to cause some problems for fighters without power, but its not like he cannot be overcome.
How would I watch fights that took place years ago involving fighters no one gives a shit about? I've seen a few of Echols fights and I still don't think any version of Echols would have "killed" Banks.

So u saying a guy that Hopkins said was the hardest puncher he has faced, a guy that Ko'd Charles Brewer in 3( Brewer went the distance with Joe C just after) wouldnt handle Banks?
Maybe u cant see the fights now, but dont comment on them then. I tend to not comment on stuff i kno fuck all about.

Being a hard-puncher does not make a fighter elite/great/whatever. If Banks could mitigate that power or avoid being hit cleanly, he could hypothetically outbox Echols.
I also didn't comment of about specific fights I haven't seen, all I did was mention that Mundine has been dropped since the Ottke fight to prove that he's not some steel-chinned god.
Keep trying to emulate VD though, it's really working for you.

[eagle]

Boxrec is a mostly reliable way to get information about fights I haven't seen. Like I said, if Winky hadn't been sick or possessed any power, he would have handled Soliman easier. Soliman is always going to cause some problems for fighters without power, but its not like he cannot be overcome.
How would I watch fights that took place years ago involving fighters no one gives a shit about? I've seen a few of Echols fights and I still don't think any version of Echols would have "killed" Banks.

So u saying a guy that Hopkins said was the hardest puncher he has faced, a guy that Ko'd Charles Brewer in 3( Brewer went the distance with Joe C just after) wouldnt handle Banks?
Maybe u cant see the fights now, but dont comment on them then. I tend to not comment on stuff i kno fuck all about.

Being a hard-puncher does not make a fighter elite/great/whatever. If Banks could mitigate that power or avoid being hit cleanly, he could hypothetically outbox Echols.
I also didn't comment of about specific fights I haven't seen, all I did was mention that Mundine has been dropped since the Ottke fight to prove that he's not some steel-chinned god.
Keep trying to emulate VD though, it's really working for you.

How am i trying to emulate VD. I dont pretend to be a gangsta. Im a 24 yr old tv salesman from australia.
Did i ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?
What i did say was that the Ottke fight is as irrelevant now as Pac v Singsurat.
Thats right Pac was Ko'd early in his career, do u bring that up everytime he fights as a reason he might lose?

[CFH]

So u saying a guy that Hopkins said was the hardest puncher he has faced, a guy that Ko'd Charles Brewer in 3( Brewer went the distance with Joe C just after) wouldnt handle Banks?
Maybe u cant see the fights now, but dont comment on them then. I tend to not comment on stuff i kno fuck all about.

Being a hard-puncher does not make a fighter elite/great/whatever. If Banks could mitigate that power or avoid being hit cleanly, he could hypothetically outbox Echols.
I also didn't comment of about specific fights I haven't seen, all I did was mention that Mundine has been dropped since the Ottke fight to prove that he's not some steel-chinned god.
Keep trying to emulate VD though, it's really working for you.

How am i trying to emulate VD. I dont pretend to be a gangsta. Im a 24 yr old tv salesman from australia.
Did i ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?
What i did say was that the Ottke fight is as irrelevant now as Pac v Singsurat.
Thats right Pac was Ko'd early in his career, do u bring that up everytime he fights as a reason he might lose?

You didn't say Mundine was a steel-chinned God, but that post was not in response to you, it was directed at Majesty.
Your posting does at times remind me of VD, but I was just goading you with the VD comment because I remember you getting pissed off before when someone said something similar in a different thread some time ago. You both just have an aggressive style of posting.
If Pac was facing a fighter regarded as one possessing dangerous power (IE someone like Miranda), then it would be relevant.

[eagle]

Being a hard-puncher does not make a fighter elite/great/whatever. If Banks could mitigate that power or avoid being hit cleanly, he could hypothetically outbox Echols.
I also didn't comment of about specific fights I haven't seen, all I did was mention that Mundine has been dropped since the Ottke fight to prove that he's not some steel-chinned god.
Keep trying to emulate VD though, it's really working for you.

How am i trying to emulate VD. I dont pretend to be a gangsta. Im a 24 yr old tv salesman from australia.
Did i ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?
What i did say was that the Ottke fight is as irrelevant now as Pac v Singsurat.
Thats right Pac was Ko'd early in his career, do u bring that up everytime he fights as a reason he might lose?

You didn't say Mundine was a steel-chinned God, but that post was not in response to you, it was directed at Majesty.
Your posting does at times remind me of VD, but I was just goading you with the VD comment because I remember you getting pissed off before when someone said something similar in a different thread some time ago. You both just have an aggressive style of posting.
If Pac was facing a fighter regarded as one possessing dangerous power (IE someone like Miranda), then it would be relevant.

Who has Miranda Ko'd that is a top class fighter?
Please oh please dont say Banks....

[CFH]

How am i trying to emulate VD. I dont pretend to be a gangsta. Im a 24 yr old tv salesman from australia.
Did i ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?
What i did say was that the Ottke fight is as irrelevant now as Pac v Singsurat.
Thats right Pac was Ko'd early in his career, do u bring that up everytime he fights as a reason he might lose?

You didn't say Mundine was a steel-chinned God, but that post was not in response to you, it was directed at Majesty.
Your posting does at times remind me of VD, but I was just goading you with the VD comment because I remember you getting pissed off before when someone said something similar in a different thread some time ago. You both just have an aggressive style of posting.
If Pac was facing a fighter regarded as one possessing dangerous power (IE someone like Miranda), then it would be relevant.

Who has Miranda Ko'd that is a top class fighter?
Please oh please dont say Banks....

He has only fought 1 top class fighter and he was KO'd, but that doesn't change the fact that he is regarded as a big puncher. He did royally fuck up Abraham's jaw, but I would not consider Abraham world class, though he has a lot of potential.

[eagle]

You didn't say Mundine was a steel-chinned God, but that post was not in response to you, it was directed at Majesty.
Your posting does at times remind me of VD, but I was just goading you with the VD comment because I remember you getting pissed off before when someone said something similar in a different thread some time ago. You both just have an aggressive style of posting.
If Pac was facing a fighter regarded as one possessing dangerous power (IE someone like Miranda), then it would be relevant.

Who has Miranda Ko'd that is a top class fighter?
Please oh please dont say Banks....

He has only fought 1 top class fighter and he was KO'd, but that doesn't change the fact that he is regarded as a big puncher. He did royally fuck up Abraham's jaw, but I would not consider Abraham world class, though he has a lot of potential.

Good debate mate, have some rep.


Sorry wont let me rep u yet but i will soon.

[CFH]

Who has Miranda Ko'd that is a top class fighter?
Please oh please dont say Banks....

He has only fought 1 top class fighter and he was KO'd, but that doesn't change the fact that he is regarded as a big puncher. He did royally fuck up Abraham's jaw, but I would not consider Abraham world class, though he has a lot of potential.

Good debate mate, have some rep.


Sorry wont let me rep u yet but i will soon.

I sent some rep your way. It was a good debate, you made some good points, and that's what this forum is all about.

[eagle]

He has only fought 1 top class fighter and he was KO'd, but that doesn't change the fact that he is regarded as a big puncher. He did royally fuck up Abraham's jaw, but I would not consider Abraham world class, though he has a lot of potential.

Good debate mate, have some rep.


Sorry wont let me rep u yet but i will soon.

I sent some rep your way. It was a good debate, you made some good points, and that's what this forum is all about.

I'll try to be less aggressive sounding too....haha

[Majesty]

When did I ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?

What I said was that the Ottke KO is irrelevant at this point because his chin has stood up to bigger punchers and that if he was the same fighter he was back then he never would have gone on to be so successful.

Don't try to twist my words to make a point

[CFH]

When did I ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?

What I said was that the Ottke KO is irrelevant at this point because his chin has stood up to bigger punchers and that if he was the same fighter he was back then he never would have gone on to be so successful.

Don't try to twist my words to make a point

I'm not twisting anybody's words. You never said Mundine was a steel-chinned god, those were my words and I never claimed them to be yours. However, you seem to be implying that his chin is nearly impregnable since the Ottke fight, which is not true, though I do agree that it is much improved. He took some bombs from Kessler and didn't go down, but he's also been dropped since the Ottke fight as well.
How did this turn into a thread about Mundine? I've never typed so much about a fighter I don't give a shit about.

[Majesty]

When did I ever say Mundine was a steel chinned god?

What I said was that the Ottke KO is irrelevant at this point because his chin has stood up to bigger punchers and that if he was the same fighter he was back then he never would have gone on to be so successful.

Don't try to twist my words to make a point

I'm not twisting anybody's words. You never said Mundine was a steel-chinned god, those were my words and I never claimed them to be yours. However, you seem to be implying that his chin is nearly impregnable since the Ottke fight, which is not true, though I do agree that it is much improved. He took some bombs from Kessler and didn't go down, but he's also been dropped since the Ottke fight as well.
How did this turn into a thread about Mundine? I've never typed so much about a fighter I don't give a shit about.

it was never about mundine. I only brought him up to show that Miranda had other super middleweights to fight out there other then Kessler. And then it became all this lol