What will Wlad have to do to make your Top 10 PFP?

[Fenster]

The only way Wlad could make a top 10 P4P list is if he morphed into Ali overnight.

Although P4P is nothing but fun, too many people compile their lists based solely on achievements made per division instead of putting emphasis on the SKILL of each fighter.

Here's Bernard Hopkins take on P4P - "You've got to understand that Ray Robinson was given the P4P title not because of his record, which included losses, but because of things he could do, he could adjust in the blink of an eye. He could box going back, he could box going forward, he could knock you out with a left hook, sideways, backwards, frontwards. To me, that's what it takes to be the best pound-for-pound fighter."

If you can't find 50 fighters better than Wlad.. surely something is wrong

Dead on. He can't be a top p4p guy because he isn't even close to one of the best fighters in the world, it has nothing to do with him being a HW or what he hasn't accomplished yet. Good point about people basing their lists on achievements PER division as well, I think people sort of subconciously feel they need to have a wide range of weight classes in their list. Calzaghe and Hopkins are the heaviest fighters I'd have top 10, and the only ones above WW currently.

yeah, maybe.

I don't necessarily think the big guys shouldn't be on the list.

But Wlad is an average heavyweight compared with the great/good heavies of the past. Just because he's recognised as top man in his division doesn't make him a great fighter. And there's easily 10 great/good fighters to currently place in front of him when you encompass all weight classes.

[Fenster]

Some of you guys judge P4P a little too harshly. Of course Wlad can make the list. Just like you could say Wlad wouldn't be as good with the same skill set at a lower weight class, the same could be said if you were to put Pacquiao at HW. Pac can't necessarily take those bigger punches and wouldn't necessarily be able to carry the extra 70+ lbs successfully. That comparison is just about as fair as throwing Wlad in the ring with Pac (and take a wild guess who would win). The criteria changes depending on the class. We don't look for HWs to be the fastest guys in boxing just like we don't look for bantamweights to be the biggest punchers. What Wlad is doing right now should earn him a spot on any current P4P list. Not necessarily all-time because there are so many great heavyweights who would probably beat him, but judged against active fighters Wlad is either on or around the corner from the list. Just stop it already.

Obviously.. in a real fight Wlad would KILL Pac.

But the idea of P4P is - fantasy.

Pac is a tremendous puncher for his weight-class. So.. In a mythical match-up Pacs power would be the equal of Wlads (maybe even more powerful).

Pac would destroy that china-chin inside 1 round.

Now, if you were discussing a mythical match between Pac and a prime Tyson - it would be a whole different story

[Wayne]

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

[Fenster]

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

[HattonTheHammer]

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

But then your still working from a theoretical standpoint.

Would pacs speed advance with him to say a dead 160, understandably there would be some kind of decline in his work rate. But would that extra weight prove to slow him down more than the norm.

Would Wlad lose his ability to throw that jab 20-30 times a round if he was fighting at a lower weight and had to rely more on countering with the right.

Its only ever fair to compare fighters in the same weight class, P4P rankings are all good as your judging each on their individual abilitys and accomplishments.

But P4P is still no more than various judgements!!

[Fenster]

Yeah that's it, Ice.

Pac would KO him in 1 though.

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

But then your still working from a theoretical standpoint.

Would pacs speed advance with him to say a dead 160, understandably there would be some kind of decline in his work rate. But would that extra weight prove to slow him down more than the norm.

Would Wlad lose his ability to throw that jab 20-30 times a round if he was fighting at a lower weight and had to rely more on countering with the right.

Its only ever fair to compare fighters in the same weight class, P4P rankings are all good as your judging each on their individual abilitys and accomplishments.

But P4P is still no more than various judgements!!

Yes. P4P is a load of bollocks. Fact.

But it's fun

[:::PSL:::]

Wlad vs Haye.

Whoever wins by KO, goes in my top 10 p4p list.

nuff said.

[ICB]

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

I think it would be similar to Corrie Sanders vs Wladimir Klitscko, Sanders was a fast punching powerful Southpaw, can anyone see a deja vu there ??