Calzaghe dismisses Pavlik fight!

[OumaFan]

From a legacy point of view of course Calzaghe wants to face Roy Jones.

If he fights and beats him then he's beaten America's best fighter of the past 20 years in Jones, and the most dominant in Hopkins.

You guys who say that Pavlik would be a bigger fight or a better name on his resume are deluded.

The only way Pavlik would be a big name is if he BEAT Joe.

If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory.

People have already dismissed his wins over Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins so why would it be any different if he beat Pavlik?

Like everyone here I'd love to see the fight, but clearly it makes far more sense for Joe to fight the biggest superstar in boxing of the past 20 years even if he is past his best.

Jones is a first ballot hall of famer, a boxing legend and a name that is guaranteed to go down in history.

Pavlik, if he lost to Calzaghe, would merely have been a belt holder.

It's a no brainer for Joe.

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

[Kev]

From a legacy point of view of course Calzaghe wants to face Roy Jones.

If he fights and beats him then he's beaten America's best fighter of the past 20 years in Jones, and the most dominant in Hopkins.

You guys who say that Pavlik would be a bigger fight or a better name on his resume are deluded.

The only way Pavlik would be a big name is if he BEAT Joe.

If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory.

People have already dismissed his wins over Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins so why would it be any different if he beat Pavlik?

Like everyone here I'd love to see the fight, but clearly it makes far more sense for Joe to fight the biggest superstar in boxing of the past 20 years even if he is past his best.

Jones is a first ballot hall of famer, a boxing legend and a name that is guaranteed to go down in history.

Pavlik, if he lost to Calzaghe, would merely have been a belt holder.

It's a no brainer for Joe.

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

[Phil]

From a legacy point of view of course Calzaghe wants to face Roy Jones.

If he fights and beats him then he's beaten America's best fighter of the past 20 years in Jones, and the most dominant in Hopkins.

You guys who say that Pavlik would be a bigger fight or a better name on his resume are deluded.

The only way Pavlik would be a big name is if he BEAT Joe.

If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory.

People have already dismissed his wins over Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins so why would it be any different if he beat Pavlik?

Like everyone here I'd love to see the fight, but clearly it makes far more sense for Joe to fight the biggest superstar in boxing of the past 20 years even if he is past his best.

Jones is a first ballot hall of famer, a boxing legend and a name that is guaranteed to go down in history.

Pavlik, if he lost to Calzaghe, would merely have been a belt holder.

It's a no brainer for Joe.

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

another great post Bilbo, owe u rep when can

[OumaFan]

From a legacy point of view of course Calzaghe wants to face Roy Jones.

If he fights and beats him then he's beaten America's best fighter of the past 20 years in Jones, and the most dominant in Hopkins.

You guys who say that Pavlik would be a bigger fight or a better name on his resume are deluded.

The only way Pavlik would be a big name is if he BEAT Joe.

If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory.

People have already dismissed his wins over Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins so why would it be any different if he beat Pavlik?

Like everyone here I'd love to see the fight, but clearly it makes far more sense for Joe to fight the biggest superstar in boxing of the past 20 years even if he is past his best.

Jones is a first ballot hall of famer, a boxing legend and a name that is guaranteed to go down in history.

Pavlik, if he lost to Calzaghe, would merely have been a belt holder.

It's a no brainer for Joe.

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

[Youngblood]

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

tl;dr

[OumaFan]

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

tl;dr

[HattonTheHammer]

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

I think JC recognised long ago he would never gain the recognition he deserves stateside (which if were all entirely honest is vital to a boxers legacy) and that his own little way of making his own legacy would be through picking off a couple of shot fighters late on and retiring undefeated with a perfect record.

There are many different arguments as to why this has come about. Some will say JC never took that big risk of going over to america 5-6 years back therefore its his own fault. Others will use the logic that his fighting style and method never made him a big hit amongst the big US tv companys and was therefore shunned upon.

Fighting pavlik would never of answered these particular questions. But it would of allowed JC to prove himself unquestionably as the king of the middle divisions and that in itself would probably of been enough to cement his status for a good while.

Why he hasnt chose to go down this route who knows??

Maybe the lack of those big "superfights" has left calzaghe with a burning desire to rack up a few extra bucks by fighting the golden boys of yesteryear rather than those currently enjoying their run at the top.

Whatever it comes down to, love him or hate him you just cannot argue with 45-0 and a decade of world championship defences!!