I know You Enjoy Ripping On Andrew

[Trainer Monkey]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

Ill go middle ground here
Some guys you cant improve,some you can,and everyone has to start somewhere.
I did martial arts,and live action medievel combat.
I certainly want nearly as good when I started as when I retired from both,I worked very hard,and had good training.
My first belt test,I flubbed a low kick block and ended up dislocating 3 fingers
My last tournament I took Silver and Gold medals
When I first started doing the SCA,I got torched often,I spent every day working the pell and studying tape
My last 2 years I never finished lower then the Semi-finals
Theres some guys you cant do anything with,when I looked at Zelenoff vs Hartley,I bluntly said Id never train Zelenoff,but Id be willing to help Andrew out. Zelenoffs basic hand speed is crap,his targeting is allways off,and he has all the mental toughness of a Strawberry Shortcake doll.
Do I think Andrew is ever going to be more then a club fighter,not really,I got him way too late,but at least Im trying to make him in to a good club fighter.
Not everybody can be Marvin Hagler