Taylor-Lacy: All or nothing !!!

[JT Rock]

Alright this just becomes plain ridiculous.. about how He has raw power but he is not a world class puncher?? Ice everyone one knows your manipulative style and symantics to go any great length to try to win a debate.. But google, boxrec research has really skewed you on this one..

Kessler? Your kidding right, he is a refined Boxer with good pop and sets up his Ko through sharp punching an accumulative punching

He isint a raw powerhouse type puncher..

You really showed your lack of knowledge with Peter knocking out Maskaev, a guy who was stopped 5 times prior to his fight with Peter.. Just dont get your logic

I think whats ridiculous here is now your trying to insult me, because this thread involves your favorite fighter Jeff Lacy. And because i don't agree with you now i go to any lengths to win a debate and now im ridiculous ?

Not once have i tried to put down Jeff Lacy or Mendoza's punching power, i just didn't think Mendoza has the kind of power which you guys seem to think he has. For one you guys except for Spicoli, have barely seen any of Mendoza's fights, so i would love to know how you would know he has 1 punch world class power.

Secondly i admitted i had only seen few of his fights, but from what i see. He doesn't plant his feet into his shots, he mostly throw's arm punches especially with the right hook which is mostly a slapping punch, and the only real punch he actually seemed to be effective with is the uppercut in the Jeff Lacy fight.

Certainly not what i would class as a "World class 1 punch KO puncher"

NO ICE has nothing to to with Lacy.. its just your style of how you go about things, Im not the only one who notices or comment on things.. Its a fact that you are wildly inconsistent in your analysis from one thread to the next. Whatever will advance your argument is what you will do whether its fact or opinion or just a lie(Which you have admited to doing) You never concede a thing to anyone rather you will google, boxrec more until you make the entire forums head spin and they just throw there hands up.. Vintage ICB

Just because you dont like Mendozas punch technique and it looks to you like a slap, dosent change the results of what he actually is.. A damn hard puncher that can put anyone out at 168-175.. END OF!!!

[ICB]

Alright this just becomes plain ridiculous.. about how He has raw power but he is not a world class puncher?? Ice everyone one knows your manipulative style and symantics to go any great length to try to win a debate.. But google, boxrec research has really skewed you on this one..

Kessler? Your kidding right, he is a refined Boxer with good pop and sets up his Ko through sharp punching an accumulative punching

He isint a raw powerhouse type puncher..

You really showed your lack of knowledge with Peter knocking out Maskaev, a guy who was stopped 5 times prior to his fight with Peter.. Just dont get your logic

I think whats ridiculous here is now your trying to insult me, because this thread involves your favorite fighter Jeff Lacy. And because i don't agree with you now i go to any lengths to win a debate and now im ridiculous ?

Not once have i tried to put down Jeff Lacy or Mendoza's punching power, i just didn't think Mendoza has the kind of power which you guys seem to think he has. For one you guys except for Spicoli, have barely seen any of Mendoza's fights, so i would love to know how you would know he has 1 punch world class power.

Secondly i admitted i had only seen few of his fights, but from what i see. He doesn't plant his feet into his shots, he mostly throw's arm punches especially with the right hook which is mostly a slapping punch, and the only real punch he actually seemed to be effective with is the uppercut in the Jeff Lacy fight.

Certainly not what i would class as a "World class 1 punch KO puncher"

NO ICE has nothing to to with Lacy.. its just your style of how you go about things, Im not the only one who notices or comment on things.. Its a fact that you are wildly inconsistent in your analysis from one thread to the next. Whatever will advance your argument is what you will do whether its fact or opinion or just a lie(Which you have admited to doing) You never concede a thing to anyone rather you will google, boxrec more until you make the entire forums head spin and they just throw there hands up.. Vintage ICB

Just because you dont like Mendozas punch technique and it looks to you like a slap, dosent change the results of what he actually is.. A damn hard puncher that can put anyone out at 168-175.. END OF!!!

JT one thing i first must point out which you do bring up from time to time, that debate we had about the debates we used to have on the hidden boards. Was explained to you by me and Bilbo.

I was given a subject to debate like at school, and your personal feelings or no matter what you believe. Doesn't really matter your just supposed to debate the subject and win it which i did, i did somewhat lie because not everything i was saying i actually believed, but i did not give Brucelee any twisted facts or etc.

But as i said it doesn't really matter if i believed it or not, i was given the subject not out of choice. Brucelee picked the subject so i debated it just like you would when you was at school. But at no other time on the main board have i lied about what i believe in a debate, if i don't know much about a certain subject i just don't bother posting in the thread end of.

Regarding Mendoza again i never stated he wasn't a good puncher, i have said time and time again he was a good puncher. Considering he has seriously technical flaws, but because he has those flaws he isn't getting his full power into the shots, because he doesn't turn his hips, plant his feet, or get his bodyweight into the shots. Its got nothing to do with disliking Mendoza, and i actually don't dislike Mendoza. And why would i ? he hasn't done anything wrong from what i heard, i was just giving honest opinion on him. But he certainly isn't a world class puncher IMO, and again i would love to know how you would know he is, because i've doubt you seen more than 2 fights of his.

Lastly i don't know the people who have been noticing my *inconsistency*, but i don't change my opinions from one thread to the other, i may change my opinion on a certain fighter after a certain amount of time. Just like you have regarding Antonio Margarito, but i don't see why thats *inconsistent*. People are allowed to change there opinion, and if these so called *people* have a problem with my opinions or *inconsistency* as you put it, then they should straight up tell me about. And not discuss about it with other members in a PM, which im assuming has happened.

[leftylee]

Both Lacy and Mendoza are bums end of. Mendoza may be a good puncher. But he is a bum end of. He's not even a contender. I had to look on boxrec to see who he was when Jeff Lacy was fighting him.

And as for Bilbo Lacy got SLAPPED by Calzaghe and went down from a slap. Calzaghe doesn't punch properly due to his bad hands.

[killersheep]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

[JT Rock]

Both Lacy and Mendoza are bums end of. Mendoza may be a good puncher. But he is a bum end of. He's not even a contender. I had to look on boxrec to see who he was when Jeff Lacy was fighting him.

And as for Bilbo Lacy got SLAPPED by Calzaghe and went down from a slap. Calzaghe doesn't punch properly due to his bad hands.

I find it funny when teenagers who would prolly fall thru there own arsehole scared when confronted by a Bona Fied Pro Fighter, can be so disrespectful and throw around the word bum so loosely

[The Fightfan]

Taylor will probably come in a little cold being he hasn't fought since Feb and that is Lacy's big oppurtunity. The added weight and raw power from Lacy could stop Taylor early. Another thing Taylor doesn't fight well backing up where as Lacy is always coming forward this to could give Taylor problems. If Taylor get's going early and just boxes for twelve rounds he could beat Lacy. I don't think Taylor is ready for the pressure of a raw Lacy or a knock down drag 'em out fight. I am going with Lacy on this one.

[ICB]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

[killersheep]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

[hfahrenheit]

I don't think Taylor is ready for the pressure of a raw Lacy or a knock down drag 'em out fight. I am going with Lacy on this one.

Granted, i'm a taylor fan, but i think the JT of the Hopkins fights and Pavlik2 will be too much for anything Lacy brings... if you'll recall, JT pressured the hell out of Hopkins in the first fight. Maybe he's cold, but i'm hoping he still has the fire. the best JT easily beats the best Lacy ever was.

[jasoo24]

Does anyone else think "All or Nothing" is a lame name? Every fight is for all or nothing.

Regardless, this is a great match-up and should be a great fight.


I think DiBella's musical tastes are to blame on this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrTpPbD6VoQ

[ICB]

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

[killersheep]

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

So all three times that Mendoza made Lacy lose his legs with overhand right they weren't effective punches? And I also don't understand why when you say you have seen 3 fights of Mendoza's it's enough to make a judgement, but when others have seen the same three fights, it's not enough for them to make judgement, you're reaching here. Just because he wasn't able to catch Dawson clean, doesn't mean the power isn't there.
And the relevance of him not making title defenses is because he had a more difficult time getting there. Tell you what man, obviously we are not going to change each other's minds here so why don't we take a poll........

[ICB]

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

So all three times that Mendoza made Lacy lose his legs with overhand right they weren't effective punches? And I also don't understand why when you say you have seen 3 fights of Mendoza's it's enough to make a judgement, but when others have seen the same three fights, it's not enough for them to make judgement, you're reaching here. Just because he wasn't able to catch Dawson clean, doesn't mean the power isn't there.
And the relevance of him not making title defenses is because he had a more difficult time getting there. Tell you what man, obviously we are not going to change each other's minds here so why don't we take a poll........

I said he often slaps with right hands i never said he couldn't throw, an effective right hand at all. I was saying majority of the time he slaps with the right hand, Sheep when did i ever say its not enough for you or any other members to make a judgement ? did i or did i not say earlier, we have our own opinions and that i may or may not be right and vice a versa ?

You can make a poll if you want but like i said i like going with my own opinion, i just think we are going round in circles here. And we will have to agree to disagree, i say he has a good power but his flawed technique. Stops him from having world class power IMO, plus it doesn't help that his punches are slow, because speed generates power. But thats as much as i'll agree with you on regarding Mendoza's power.

[killersheep]

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

So all three times that Mendoza made Lacy lose his legs with overhand right they weren't effective punches? And I also don't understand why when you say you have seen 3 fights of Mendoza's it's enough to make a judgement, but when others have seen the same three fights, it's not enough for them to make judgement, you're reaching here. Just because he wasn't able to catch Dawson clean, doesn't mean the power isn't there.
And the relevance of him not making title defenses is because he had a more difficult time getting there. Tell you what man, obviously we are not going to change each other's minds here so why don't we take a poll........

I said he often slaps with right hands i never said he couldn't throw, an effective right hand at all. I was saying majority of the time he slaps with the right hand, Sheep when did i ever say its not enough for you or any other members to make a judgement ? did i or did i not say earlier, we have our own opinions and that i may or may not be right and vice a versa ?

You can make a poll if you want but like i said i like going with my own opinion, i just think we are going round in circles here. And we will have to agree to disagree, i say he has a good power but his flawed technique. Stops him from having world class power IMO, plus it doesn't help that his punches are slow, because speed generates power. But thats as much as i'll agree with you on regarding Mendoza's power.

Ok seeing as how ultimately at this point we are having a war of the definition of World Class Power, we can solve this debate right here, this is an easy solution

Define: "World Class Power" for me.

[Spicoli]

Cornball moment : I think it's a good testament to us as fans that an also ran type like Mendoza generates this much debate.Not every thing has to be about Pac/Cotto/Delahoya/etc.Actually made me pull his fight with Rowland (?) off the shelf,He really got his ears boxed off.Just thinking out loud.