kelly pavlik against past middle and light heavyweights

[DaxxKahn]

People always try this and it never holds water. How do you think Ruth and Cobb would do in todays baseball game. Or Nameth. They would get owned. Pavlik would beat Hearns, Manzon , McC and maybe Hagler. He would beat SRR and Lamatta. he would bury Harry Greb. He would have a tough time with Jones Jr. Hopkins in his prime , and Toney and he beats Calzaghe. PAVLIK HAS NOT EVEN HIT HIS PRIME YET. HE IS JUST GETTING INTO HIS PRIME.

I normally like you as a poster but you can't be serious ? how many fights have you seen of Carlos Monzon ? the man was a beast and arguably the best Middleweight of all time. He is similar to Kelly Pavlik style wise but he has the much better chin and i would say he is physically stronger than Kelly Pavlik aswell. And he would be forcing Kelly Pavlik on the backfoot and stop Pavlik late on.

Thomas Hearns has a suspect chin so Kelly Pavlik does have a chance, but i think its more likely Thomas Hearns lands his famous right hand. And lays out Kelly Pavlik inside of 3 rounds.

Marvin Hagler in his younger days was a great boxing/puncher, he could counter punch very well. But more importantly he was also very strong and his chin was out of this world. I think Marvin Hagler outboxes Kelly Pavlik and takes a decision or a late stoppage.

SRR ? you can't be serious he may be somewhat overrated at Middleweight, but he had excellent movement, great handspeed. And a granite chin he would lay out Kelly Pavlik inside of 8.

Jake Lamotta ? im not so sure of but Jake Lamotta did have a great chin and kept on coming, and was also physically very strong. But he did get hit too much for my liking but it would be a closely fought fight IMO.

RJJ ? just a tough time ? don't make me laugh Kelly Pavlik would get brutalized by a prime RJJ. RJJ is possibly one of the most talented fighters to have ever lived, and he was one of the quickest boxers P4P ever if not the quickest. Are you seriously trying to tell me this fight is even debatable ?

A young Bernard Hopkins is like Marvin Hagler in some ways, except i think he is a bit more of skilled pressure fighter than Marvin Hagler was. Plus a prime Bernard Hopkins has a great chin along with great boxing skills, and great workrate. He is far too skilled for Kelly Pavlik.

I would love to know how you think Kelly Pavlik beats Harry Greb, because there is no footage of Harry Greb not even one fight. So how can you judge this fight ?

James Toney vs Kelly Pavlik ? see James Toney vs Iran Barkley. Although Kelly Pavlik throws his punches straighter than Iran Barkey. Kelly Pavlik would still get countered all night long just like Iran Barkley did, who was a big strong powerful puncher like Kelly Pavlik was, and i see Kelly Pavlik getting a boxing lesson over 12 rounds.

Joe Calzaghe ? Pavlik would have a chance against Joe Calzaghe, because Joe Calzaghe can't seem to get away from straight right hands, but a prime Joe Calzaghe was faster and had much more power. It would be close but i feel Joe Calzaghe is a much better all round boxer and he would win a tough decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMA6Pd6tT3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFItT...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO2dT...eature=related
Wow I sure could . Ever hear of youtube? Its really cool.I dont the bandwagon of yesterdays golden oldie fighters. I think Pavlik could beat SRR , Greb , Monzon , Calzaghe , and McC . I do think Roy Jones in his prime beats him at 160 , So does a prime Hopkins and Toney. On the other hand he only needs one shot to hurt them. And sorry I think Miranda hits harder than Hearns who was a natural 147- 154. I think with the motor city cobras suspect chin Pavlik puts him out inside of 5. He and the other great from Brockton Mass will try to trade and who ever hits the hardest and lands the better shots wins. Pavlik has a reach like a 747. He is fukin huge for 160. He is 6'2.5. You are under rating him. He is great. He is not in his prime yet but by this time next year when he beats Joe Calzaghe by knockout and knocks out Abraham you will have a different opinion. I hope . I would like to see him step up and fight Dawson or Tarver next year. But who knows. He has the size and power.

Tommy had a longer reach then kelly does...Pavlik has only an inch and a hlf height advantage

[Deanrw]

Like I said earlier, it is way too early to rate Pavlik all time. Pavlik and Calzaghe are both undefeated, but that is all. Neither has had the fights where you can sit back and say WOW! Only time and facing consistant top competition will grant them true all time status.

Taylor was a decent win for Pavlik but showed in previous fights he was beatable. Hopkins is older and is beatable. They are building block wins, but Pav needs to go much further.

On that note he seems to have the willingness to take that road, which is commendable.

[DaxxKahn]

You are nutts in taking Hearns over Pavlik. Hearns has a terrible chin. Monzon was a beast but he is very one sided coming in with his head in strait lines. You are underating Pavliks chin. He took seven plus shots from Taylor who has power and got up on a two count. I bet you think Honus Wagner could win the mvp agianst todays ball players or you probably think 1978 Dolphins would have a winning team today. In reality todays fightewrs are far faster , stronger, and healthier than ever. Ever take that into mind. I do think Calzaghe now at the tail end of his prime and Pavlik getting into his is a knockout win for Pavlik.

Hearns had a shaky chin not one of fine china...The only real upset KO he suffered was from Barkley and that was past his best and at ME...The one by Uriah Grant was when he was waaaaay past is best and at CW...Tommy had been a pro 22 yrs by then as well....The only prime KO's he suffered were against Hagler who beat the shit out of almost everyone and by Leonard...and by the time the KO from Leonard happened Tonmmy was exausted......Kelly has a decent chin of not Taylor is no Hearns in the power dept./..Kelly does not have the wiskers of Hagler or a prime Leonard...Just the fact he has been rocked before in his prime and put on the canvas proves that....

Tell me a fighter today faster, stronger and healthier then a prime Ali, or Leonard because of the times?.......What featherweight today do you pick over Salvador Sanchez?..Who hits harder then Foreman in his prime?..That statement means nothing when it comes to fighting.......The guy chopping wood and running in the woods for cardio is just as if not stronger then the guy at the gym using machines...

You can only move around a 20X20 ring so fast regardless of training methods....muscles and supplements do not make you hit harder...

all the modern methods are great when it comes to training to run or throw a football.....

Daxx i slightly remember the Uriah Grant fight i believe Thomas Hearns broke his ankle ? or injured it im not sure.

Yeah mate it was an injured ankle..still goes down as a TKO

http://www.saddoboxing.com/1608-hear...e-warpath.html

[Deanrw]

Tommy had a longer reach then kelly does...Pavlik has only an inch and a hlf height advantage

I don't think Tommy had longer arms than Pavlik, much of his reach total was due to the broadness of his shoulders, which were formidable BTW.

As for Pavlik vs Tommy. Tommy was one of those guys who would get to you quickly, and if not you then had your shot. It is a crapshoot with him. He had good boxing skills but only used them when forced to, usually when he was tired, losing and it was simply too late. He depended on that right hand and it usually got the job done.

[Spicoli]

Grant caught him flush early in 1st and it was sad ending for an all time great,claimed ankle injury off ring apron.Delgado also belted him around plenty.Imo though,I think Kelly makes more mistakes than Hearns and Tommy can capitalize.

[Deanrw]

Grant caught him flush early in 1st and it was sad ending for an all time great,claimed ankle injury off ring apron.Delgado also belted him around plenty.Imo though,I think Kelly makes more mistakes than Hearns and Tommy can capitalize.

Well he had better try keeping those mistakes to a minimum against Bernard, because old Bernard is still Bernard of old early in a fight and will capitalize

[DaxxKahn]

Tommy had a longer reach then kelly does...Pavlik has only an inch and a hlf height advantage

I don't think Tommy had longer arms than Pavlik, much of his reach total was due to the broadness of his shoulders, which were formidable BTW.

As for Pavlik vs Tommy. Tommy was one of those guys who would get to you quickly, and if not you then had your shot. It is a crapshoot with him. He had good boxing skills but only used them when forced to, usually when he was tired, losing and it was simply too late. He depended on that right hand and it usually got the job done.

Reach is reach mate....use it properly and you have the advantage

[Deanrw]

Here is an interesting picture regarding reach. Pavlik and Hopkins are both listed as having a 75" reach. If you look at this photo though, you will see a fairly considerable arm length advantage for one of them. Who is it?hehe

[DaxxKahn]

Here is an interesting picture regarding reach. Pavlik and Hopkins are both listed as having a 75" reach. If you look at this photo though, you will see a fairly considerable arm length advantage for one of them. Who is it?hehe

Thats why stats are now given for fingertip to fingertip and armpit tp fingertip

[Youngblood]

I'm a huge Pavlik fan, but think it is too early in his career to start mentioning him in the same breath with names like Hearns and Hagler etc.

I hope to see him earn that right, and in fact even believe he will get there. But for now, he's fighting Bernard Hopkins, a wily but overage fighter. When Kelly's record and career can be spoken in the same breath with legends, we'll have known more of it. At his age and experience, he has a lot more fighting to do. And I can't wait to see it.

[Deanrw]

Here is an interesting picture regarding reach. Pavlik and Hopkins are both listed as having a 75" reach. If you look at this photo though, you will see a fairly considerable arm length advantage for one of them. Who is it?hehe

Thats why stats are now given for fingertip to fingertip and armpit tp fingertip

Armpit to end of fist would probably be the best measurement. Reach is useless though without the ability to utilize it properly. Pavlik gives that reach up when he steps in to punch. That is where Hopkins has his best chance. He will get to Pavlik, but the question is will he have enough to finish what he started. If he does not, Pavlik will eventually wear him down.

[Spicoli]

Im calling phony pic.......Hopkins looks all welted up & mashed,Why does Bernard look lioke a swollen Toney

[Deanrw]

Im calling phony pic.......Hopkins looks all welted up & mashed,Why does Bernard look lioke a swollen Toney

It's not photoshopped, but he just looks that way because he is standing next to a skeleton!LOL

[kingfrnk]

kelly looks pissed a lil

[jangeorg]

He would beat Hearns imo.

McCallum, Jones, Hopkins, Eubank, Hagler the list is endless that would school him.

Nope Hearns will KO him