Who beats Chad Dawson?

[CutMeMick]

Hey Mick I know it may be a bit soon but but I'd like to know your thoughts on a potential Dawson/ Cloud fight? Because I think Cloud is a huge talent & may have the tools to give Chad problems!

Too early to give Cloud a equal assesment.
If I had to call it now you have to back BCD just because he's done more thus far.
But I can't wait until Cloud starts developing. Can he brush up in the skills dept? Or will he remain a puncher?
Yet to be seen but it will def. be interesting if they ever meet.

Two fighters I think could beat Chad: Diaconu and Erdei. I think Diaconu would be a tough fight for BCD. Diaconu punches like a beast and I still think BCD's weakness is his chin. If Diaconu popped Chad, it would be over fast - but, would he even get the chance if Chad was throwing punches a mile-per-minute? Maybe not. Erdei possesses enough speed, boxing know-how, and experience to beat Chad, but Erdei wouldn't leave Germany for $100 million and a lifetime giftcard at Spearmint Rhino.

Completely disagree with the Diaconu assesment.
BCDs workrate would not allow the smaller, shorter and less busier Diaconu to work his game plan. Henry at times was able to outbox Diaconu in their fight with ease but did not have the workrate and stamina to hold off Diaconu. For a good part of the fight, late in the fight it looked like Henry was turning it and or was gonna turn the fight around.

[Kev]

Dawson is definitely a talent but to be fair there is nobody at lightheavyeight these days.

He's come in as and taken control of what biologically was probably the oldest division in boxing, Tarver and Johnson are both 40, Jones Jr is almost 40, Hopkins is 43, Calzaghe is 36 and the 'young threat'.

I think Dawson definitely has potential but he certainly got into the division at the right time.

Whether Pavlik could carry his punch that far I don't know.

Pavlik and Joe are obviously the fights he would want but I highly doubt Calzaghe would pit his perfect record against a young, talented, naturally bigger kid like Dawson, let's face it that fight will never ever happen.

Pavlik though if he gets past Hopkins will likely step up and try and chase the big fights.

This isn't a criticism of Calzaghe, he's just 10 years further on than Pavlik and wants to mega fights against the established names rather than a young lion on the up for less money and more risk. For Pavlik though its all about the glory right now so if he beats Hopkins then I guess Dawson might be on his radar for the future.

[CutMeMick]

Dawson is definitely a talent but to be fair there is nobody at lightheavyeight these days.

He's come in as and taken control of what biologically was probably the oldest division in boxing, Tarver and Johnson are both 40, Jones Jr is almost 40, Hopkins is 43, Calzaghe is 36 and the 'young threat'.

I think Dawson definitely has potential but he certainly got into the division at the right time.

Whether Pavlik could carry his punch that far I don't know.

Pavlik and Joe are obviously the fights he would want but I highly doubt Calzaghe would pit his perfect record against a young, talented, naturally bigger kid like Dawson, let's face it that fight will never ever happen.

Pavlik though if he gets past Hopkins will likely step up and try and chase the big fights.

This isn't a criticism of Calzaghe, he's just 10 years further on than Pavlik and wants to mega fights against the established names rather than a young lion on the up for less money and more risk. For Pavlik though its all about the glory right now so if he beats Hopkins then I guess Dawson might be on his radar for the future.

Your assesment is true but to be fair to the kid these "older" fighters still got some fight in them. As we've seen in Hop vs. Joe and Hop vs. Tarver and RJJ vs. Tito.
BCD wont win a fight vs. them just by showing up. He still has to fight.

Also there's a lot of talent coming up; Erdeis been around for sometime but it's become apparent he wont leave his country anytime soon.
Diaconu, Cloud, Garay, Brahamer and Francis have been established as top LHW for sometime now.

But the Div. is def. in transission right now. But things don't get handed to you, you still have to fight...

[Wayne]

I think both kessler and pavlik are fights that could/will happen and both would give him serious serious trouble. Real tough fights, he struggled with johnson who is nothing more than a journey man. I'll give him leway on the fact that maybe he let his game dip because he was fighting a journeyman.

He done superb against Tarver. nothing really wrong, but when you are fighting a guy who just stood there and covered up every fucking punch you throw it is EASY to look good! Yes you have to give a lot of credit to Dawson for forcing Tarver on the back foot and out working him. But after a few rounds it was clear that every single punch Chad threw Tarver was going to try and block it and nothing more. No counters, no trying to slip anythign and make him miss. Simple hands up take half the punches then move. Fucking useless.

With all this said and done tho, this wasn't as impressive or as good as the beat down Hopkins give Tarver either. I think people are forgeting that and are getting to carried away like usual when someone puts on a good show.

Johnson may be a journeyman, but to describe him as just a journeyman doesn't do him justice. He's probably the toughest journeyman there is. And to Dawson's favor, perhaps the only thing Tarver did was cover up because Dawson's punches put him in a shell. They had a gameplan for Antonio and it worked. Tarver already has stamina problems and when youhave a consistent body puncher going downstairs it makes a guy a little punch shy.

[Rantcatrat]

Hey Mick I know it may be a bit soon but but I'd like to know your thoughts on a potential Dawson/ Cloud fight? Because I think Cloud is a huge talent & may have the tools to give Chad problems!

Too early to give Cloud a equal assesment.
If I had to call it now you have to back BCD just because he's done more thus far.
But I can't wait until Cloud starts developing. Can he brush up in the skills dept? Or will he remain a puncher?
Yet to be seen but it will def. be interesting if they ever meet.

Two fighters I think could beat Chad: Diaconu and Erdei. I think Diaconu would be a tough fight for BCD. Diaconu punches like a beast and I still think BCD's weakness is his chin. If Diaconu popped Chad, it would be over fast - but, would he even get the chance if Chad was throwing punches a mile-per-minute? Maybe not. Erdei possesses enough speed, boxing know-how, and experience to beat Chad, but Erdei wouldn't leave Germany for $100 million and a lifetime giftcard at Spearmint Rhino.

Completely disagree with the Diaconu assesment.
BCDs workrate would not allow the smaller, shorter and less busier Diaconu to work his game plan. Henry at times was able to outbox Diaconu in their fight with ease but did not have the workrate and stamina to hold off Diaconu. For a good part of the fight, late in the fight it looked like Henry was turning it and or was gonna turn the fight around.

I italicized the word "could" because I don't know if Diaconu or Erdei "would" beat BCD. I actually favor Chad in either fight. It was disappointing that Chad chose not to fight Diaconu when he had the chance (I understand that Diaconu hurt his hand and the rest etc). My point was that Diaconu possesses the punch to hurt Dawson. Dawson's only liability, if it is one, is his chin. Diaconu's strength is his punch. Put two-and-two together. My bet would be that Dawson wins by workrate and due to Dawson's speed Diaconu wouldn't get the chance to unload any bombs.

[skel1983]

i think when kelly finishes his business at MW he might fight chad which will be a great fight for both. and i dont care who wins both are my favorite fighter at the moment

I think Dawson has a quite easy time with Pavlik at 175, Pavlik loses all his advantages against Dawson. Easy ud for BCD.

[kingfrnk]

i think when kelly finishes his business at MW he might fight chad which will be a great fight for both. and i dont care who wins both are my favorite fighter at the moment

I think Dawson has a quite easy time with Pavlik at 175, Pavlik loses all his advantages against Dawson. Easy ud for BCD.

nothing is easy with kelly in the ring u ass. he is young and strong just like chad.

[Taeth]

I don't know what the hell your talking about Preme. Dawson speed made Tarver cover up because he couldn't deal with it, I think Roy's biggest flaw was that he was too gunshy against Tarver or he would have destroyed Antonio. That being said Johnson is a great fighter, he went undefeated for a long part of his career, then he lost to Bernard(in his prime) which there is no shame in, then he lost bad decisions and fights he didn't really try in, and after that he started winning again and became what he is now. He's quicker than Pavlik, and he has a much better chin then Pavlik, and he is just as relentless.

While Johnson surivived what Dawson threw at him those first two rounds, how can Pavlik? Dawson hits harder hten anyone besides Miranda that he fought, but Dawson would be landing flush punches, and it wouldn't be like Taylor, Dawson hits much harder then Taylor, He is quite a bit faster then Taylor, and he puts punches together.

Like I said Johnson isn't just a journeyman with a good chin, he has good quickness, he is one of the most accurate inside punchers, he is a lot harder to hit then people give him credit for.

Johnson would knock Pavlik out.

[Spicoli]

I have to tell you,Call it jumping on a band wagon or call it finally recognizing a good thing when you see it But I'm sold and quite the convert.Up until Sat. Night,I had some reservations concerning Dawson.....Mainly his habit of easing off and coasting when things are going his way.Prior to the Tarver fight he came off abit dismissive and a little to Aloof Imo.Once it began he displayed his true potential and maturing skillset against a still capable and experienced Tarver....The hand speed and clear game plan was obvious right off the bat.He repeatedly dictated pace with top notch punch selection,beating Tarver to the punch and moving as he wished to again reset.By the midway point,Tarver was reduced to almost flailing in hopes of a KO punch and looked discouraged & tired.Dawson controlled the ring and made a huge jump into the big time.

The flaw I see is as mentioned,The coasting....ecspecially late.A small part of me expects him to get badly clipped for a count if he does not tighten this up and he seems to be making major improvements.Adameck touched him,Johnson,even Tarver had a brief last surge in the 12th.Non the less,what impressed me the most over his last few was that he answered a key question that any young gun coming up fast has to be asked that set's them apart from the also rans in they're respected division.He went through a serious acid test against Johnson and had some hellacious adversity.He made adjustments and dug down....ugly in spots but he did not fold up.The decision frankly can be hotly contested,Johnson did what he always has done against the odds......he fought his ass off!!!I know I'm going back wards here but that fight might just prove to be one of the most,if not the most valuable fights in his current and future career.I think he righted the ship against Tarver....I realize Tarver is pushing 40 but Dawson looked sharp and is a major player.I have no idea he will face next,Calzaghe is booked with Jones,I dont know why an inactive Taylor keeps popping up lately,but maybe off a spectacular (??) win vs.Lacy he jumps up & would like a go,nice style clash Imo.A Johnson rematch would speak volumes.I'm watching!!

[Mr140]

Teath think you overrating Chad just as much as people overrate Pavlik to tell you the truth you say Pavlik is lucky in his divsion well so is Chad. Say things about Pavliks chin but besides that one time with Taylor it has not happen again in the rematch he did not hurt Pavlik did he. As for Chad he has showed to be chinny in more fights then Pavlik he lost to Johnson he is like what 40 years of age and then beats Taver at 39 and people are surprised i think you give Chad to much credit for a win when old Bernard did a way worse job on Taver then Chad did and thats the Bernard that was beat by Taylor so it is not like he was in prime or anything. Lets not forget all the time Chad has been rocked which is alot more then Pavlik. Chad has bad habit of going to the ropes and taking rounds off and if he does that gives Pavlik a great chance of hurting him and Chad loses focas alot which is not that great of thing to be doing at this level. As for what you been saying about Kessler on other threads he was hurt by Calzaghe enough said he is lucky the ref held Calzaghe back or he would been down and who knows maybe even stoped not to mention the competion he has been facing latly which is just a joke if you ask me not even jourymen. If Kessler fights Pavlik and Pavlik goes to the body he while knock Kessler out i dont think much of him not saying Pavlik a god but neither is Chad or Kessler so i dont think there while be any out classing as you say.

[SaltyBacon]

fight with tavoris cloud would be great but there are the big guys

but there are some others maybe lucian bute, adrian diaconu, mikkel kessler

if jermain taylor or arthur abraham ever make up to 175 imo they all those fight will be enertaing

but the way he look against tarver he beat most of them

[Taeth]

Teath think you overrating Chad just as much as people overrate Pavlik to tell you the truth you say Pavlik is lucky in his divsion well so is Chad. Say things about Pavliks chin but besides that one time with Taylor it has not happen again in the rematch he did not hurt Pavlik did he. As for Chad he has showed to be chinny in more fights then Pavlik he lost to Johnson he is like what 40 years of age and then beats Taver at 39 and people are surprised i think you give Chad to much credit for a win when old Bernard did a way worse job on Taver then Chad did and thats the Bernard that was beat by Taylor so it is not like he was in prime or anything. Lets not forget all the time Chad has been rocked which is alot more then Pavlik. Chad has bad habit of going to the ropes and taking rounds off and if he does that gives Pavlik a great chance of hurting him and Chad loses focas alot which is not that great of thing to be doing at this level. As for what you been saying about Kessler on other threads he was hurt by Calzaghe enough said he is lucky the ref held Calzaghe back or he would been down and who knows maybe even stoped not to mention the competion he has been facing latly which is just a joke if you ask me not even jourymen. If Kessler fights Pavlik and Pavlik goes to the body he while knock Kessler out i dont think much of him not saying Pavlik a god but neither is Chad or Kessler so i dont think there while be any out classing as you say.

I am not saying Chad is the best fighter in the world, I agree that I think he is a weak division hence the reason why I don't think anyone would beat him, this isn't the same scenario as why I don't think any welterweight would be Floyd Mayweather, this is Chad is a very good fighter, but in a situation where there are very many fighters of top caliber left.

I don't know what you are trying to prove here about Pavlik, Calzaghe was way faster then Pavlik and a way better boxer, if he, Kelly, tried to box with Kessler he would be picked apart, and because of his lack of speed he wouldn't be able to land anything, if he tried to push Kessler back, he would eat heavy jabs and counters all night long. Pavlik's chin is as questionable as Dawson's who has been dropped, but only really hurt by Glen Johnson 15 pounds north of the middleweight division. Once again just like in the Adamek fight Dawson would overwhelm Pavlik with speed, he wear Pavlik down with his body attack.

Also Dawson's performance against Tarver was as impressive as Bernard's, he won as many rounds, he put on a better offensive show, but not quite as impressive of a defensive show.

It would be like Barrera or JMM against Juarez who is a skilled fighter coming forwad, but when you face somebody with movement and great technique everything falls to shit unless you have speed or a more physical style.

The only credible opponent Pavlik has beaten impressively is Taylor, and thats becuase Taylor exhausted himself when he had Pavlik badly compromised. Their second fight was pretty even, I thought Bernard beat Taylor more impressive in their first fight, I thought Winky beat Taylor by a larger margin in their fight. Taylor was a the perfect opponent for PAvlik, a guy without a good snap in his punches, a guy who had absolutely horrible defensive skills going backwards.

[kingfrnk]

Teath think you overrating Chad just as much as people overrate Pavlik to tell you the truth you say Pavlik is lucky in his divsion well so is Chad. Say things about Pavliks chin but besides that one time with Taylor it has not happen again in the rematch he did not hurt Pavlik did he. As for Chad he has showed to be chinny in more fights then Pavlik he lost to Johnson he is like what 40 years of age and then beats Taver at 39 and people are surprised i think you give Chad to much credit for a win when old Bernard did a way worse job on Taver then Chad did and thats the Bernard that was beat by Taylor so it is not like he was in prime or anything. Lets not forget all the time Chad has been rocked which is alot more then Pavlik. Chad has bad habit of going to the ropes and taking rounds off and if he does that gives Pavlik a great chance of hurting him and Chad loses focas alot which is not that great of thing to be doing at this level. As for what you been saying about Kessler on other threads he was hurt by Calzaghe enough said he is lucky the ref held Calzaghe back or he would been down and who knows maybe even stoped not to mention the competion he has been facing latly which is just a joke if you ask me not even jourymen. If Kessler fights Pavlik and Pavlik goes to the body he while knock Kessler out i dont think much of him not saying Pavlik a god but neither is Chad or Kessler so i dont think there while be any out classing as you say.

I am not saying Chad is the best fighter in the world, I agree that I think he is a weak division hence the reason why I don't think anyone would beat him, this isn't the same scenario as why I don't think any welterweight would be Floyd Mayweather, this is Chad is a very good fighter, but in a situation where there are very many fighters of top caliber left.

I don't know what you are trying to prove here about Pavlik, Calzaghe was way faster then Pavlik and a way better boxer, if he, Kelly, tried to box with Kessler he would be picked apart, and because of his lack of speed he wouldn't be able to land anything, if he tried to push Kessler back, he would eat heavy jabs and counters all night long. Pavlik's chin is as questionable as Dawson's who has been dropped, but only really hurt by Glen Johnson 15 pounds north of the middleweight division. Once again just like in the Adamek fight Dawson would overwhelm Pavlik with speed, he wear Pavlik down with his body attack.

Also Dawson's performance against Tarver was as impressive as Bernard's, he won as many rounds, he put on a better offensive show, but not quite as impressive of a defensive show.

It would be like Barrera or JMM against Juarez who is a skilled fighter coming forwad, but when you face somebody with movement and great technique everything falls to shit unless you have speed or a more physical style.

The only credible opponent Pavlik has beaten impressively is Taylor, and thats becuase Taylor exhausted himself when he had Pavlik badly compromised. Their second fight was pretty even, I thought Bernard beat Taylor more impressive in their first fight, I thought Winky beat Taylor by a larger margin in their fight. Taylor was a the perfect opponent for PAvlik, a guy without a good snap in his punches, a guy who had absolutely horrible defensive skills going backwards.

taeth u are stupid if u think bernard lost to taylor the first time was better than kellys victory over taylor the second time. idiot

[Kev]

Dawson is definitely a talent but to be fair there is nobody at lightheavyeight these days.

He's come in as and taken control of what biologically was probably the oldest division in boxing, Tarver and Johnson are both 40, Jones Jr is almost 40, Hopkins is 43, Calzaghe is 36 and the 'young threat'.

I think Dawson definitely has potential but he certainly got into the division at the right time.

Whether Pavlik could carry his punch that far I don't know.

Pavlik and Joe are obviously the fights he would want but I highly doubt Calzaghe would pit his perfect record against a young, talented, naturally bigger kid like Dawson, let's face it that fight will never ever happen.

Pavlik though if he gets past Hopkins will likely step up and try and chase the big fights.

This isn't a criticism of Calzaghe, he's just 10 years further on than Pavlik and wants to mega fights against the established names rather than a young lion on the up for less money and more risk. For Pavlik though its all about the glory right now so if he beats Hopkins then I guess Dawson might be on his radar for the future.

Your assesment is true but to be fair to the kid these "older" fighters still got some fight in them. As we've seen in Hop vs. Joe and Hop vs. Tarver and RJJ vs. Tito.
BCD wont win a fight vs. them just by showing up. He still has to fight.

Also there's a lot of talent coming up; Erdeis been around for sometime but it's become apparent he wont leave his country anytime soon.
Diaconu, Cloud, Garay, Brahamer and Francis have been established as top LHW for sometime now.

But the Div. is def. in transission right now. But things don't get handed to you, you still have to fight...

Yeah I definitely agree with you, you have to be talented to rise to the top of any division and in winning fights over Adamek, Johnson and Tarver Dawson has proven he is the best lightheavyweight in the world right now.

The old guys he has beaten however arn't the best old guys though. I'd certainly love to see how he handled B Hop, I think he would make things a lot harder for Chad than Dawson.

He also lost the war with Johnson imo even though I agree on a round by round basis he probably deserved to win the fight.

I think he's capable of beating every challenger and fellow champ out there, but I also think Calzaghe, Hopkins, and maybe Pavlik could beat him as well.

It's certainly not like when Jones Jr was in his prime at light heavy, or Pavlik at middleweight now where you would be really suprised if they got beat in their respective divisions. He has shown vulnurabilities, against Dawson and Adamek in particular but there's no doubting the kid can really box.

I'd have him pretty close to the p4p now, probably top 15 at least. Consecutive wins over Adamek, Johnson and Tarver are impressive.

He still hasn't had what I'd call a defining fight yet though. Hopefully the winner of Pavlik Hopkins will give it to him.

[Taeth]

Teath think you overrating Chad just as much as people overrate Pavlik to tell you the truth you say Pavlik is lucky in his divsion well so is Chad. Say things about Pavliks chin but besides that one time with Taylor it has not happen again in the rematch he did not hurt Pavlik did he. As for Chad he has showed to be chinny in more fights then Pavlik he lost to Johnson he is like what 40 years of age and then beats Taver at 39 and people are surprised i think you give Chad to much credit for a win when old Bernard did a way worse job on Taver then Chad did and thats the Bernard that was beat by Taylor so it is not like he was in prime or anything. Lets not forget all the time Chad has been rocked which is alot more then Pavlik. Chad has bad habit of going to the ropes and taking rounds off and if he does that gives Pavlik a great chance of hurting him and Chad loses focas alot which is not that great of thing to be doing at this level. As for what you been saying about Kessler on other threads he was hurt by Calzaghe enough said he is lucky the ref held Calzaghe back or he would been down and who knows maybe even stoped not to mention the competion he has been facing latly which is just a joke if you ask me not even jourymen. If Kessler fights Pavlik and Pavlik goes to the body he while knock Kessler out i dont think much of him not saying Pavlik a god but neither is Chad or Kessler so i dont think there while be any out classing as you say.

I am not saying Chad is the best fighter in the world, I agree that I think he is a weak division hence the reason why I don't think anyone would beat him, this isn't the same scenario as why I don't think any welterweight would be Floyd Mayweather, this is Chad is a very good fighter, but in a situation where there are very many fighters of top caliber left.

I don't know what you are trying to prove here about Pavlik, Calzaghe was way faster then Pavlik and a way better boxer, if he, Kelly, tried to box with Kessler he would be picked apart, and because of his lack of speed he wouldn't be able to land anything, if he tried to push Kessler back, he would eat heavy jabs and counters all night long. Pavlik's chin is as questionable as Dawson's who has been dropped, but only really hurt by Glen Johnson 15 pounds north of the middleweight division. Once again just like in the Adamek fight Dawson would overwhelm Pavlik with speed, he wear Pavlik down with his body attack.

Also Dawson's performance against Tarver was as impressive as Bernard's, he won as many rounds, he put on a better offensive show, but not quite as impressive of a defensive show.

It would be like Barrera or JMM against Juarez who is a skilled fighter coming forwad, but when you face somebody with movement and great technique everything falls to shit unless you have speed or a more physical style.

The only credible opponent Pavlik has beaten impressively is Taylor, and thats becuase Taylor exhausted himself when he had Pavlik badly compromised. Their second fight was pretty even, I thought Bernard beat Taylor more impressive in their first fight, I thought Winky beat Taylor by a larger margin in their fight. Taylor was a the perfect opponent for PAvlik, a guy without a good snap in his punches, a guy who had absolutely horrible defensive skills going backwards.

taeth u are stupid if u think bernard lost to taylor the first time was better than kellys victory over taylor the second time. idiot

Your the idiot, Hopkins was coutnering effectively, he hurt Taylor more near the end then Kelly ever did in their second fight. Taylor wasn't able to use the jab, Bernard put on a defensive show along with showcasing the right hand. Pavlik got hit a lot, he landed alot, but I liked what Hopkins did more. All in all they both won close fights IMO against Taylor, but Cory Spinks and Winky Wright beat Taylor emphatically IMO.