Quote Originally Posted by ICB View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Taeth View Post
What would happen if Hagler at foughten a natural middleweight version of Leonard, who could move for 15 rounds, and could punch equivalently harder at the weight? Leonard was untried for all intense and purposes against a guy at the highest weight he had ever been at. He hadn't had a real fight in three years, he couldn't maintain his movement for even 6 rounds. I think people are forgetting the factor of Hagler's size, and that with that advantage he was still on basically an even playing field with an old Duran, rusty Leonard, and he basically outchinned Hearns which Leonard had done before, and lesser guys have done since.
Marvin Hagler wasn't in his prime against SRL far from it, he had 66 fights and atleast 50 percent of those fights were tough. SRL wouldn't of even beat that version of Marvin Hagler, had he not demanded a bigger ring/gloves/12 rounds ETC.

And again just because a fighter started at a smaller weight class, doesn't mean thats there natural weight class. SRL went as high as almost a Light Heavyweight against Donny LaLonde, the size difference between 5'9 Marvin Hagler, 5'10 Sugar Ray Leonard isn't that much at all.

And i can't think of many Middleweights who moved gracefully, around the ring only RJJ/SRR. But a prime Marvin Hagler could cut the ring off very well.

Roberto Duran was not old he was coming off one of his best performances, against Davey Moore. Who was a highly rated prospect like David Reid, and Roberto Duran just battered him from pillar to post.

Roberto Duran was 152 for that fight and he was 156 for the Marvin Hagler fight. Roberto Duran may of not been at his best at Middleweight, but he was still very good at that weight. Which showed when he upset Iran Barkley at Middleweight in 1989.

Who had just come off beating Thomas Hearns, and Roberto Duran just ate all of Iran Barkley's shots like nothing. And Iran Barkley was a huge guy for a Middleweight he was like 6'1.

Lastly SRL didn't outchin Thomas Hearns you need to watch it again, SRL was outboxed throughout the fight. And Thomas Hearns suspect stamina let him down not his chin.

The fact is except for Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler didn't really have a size advantage. Over Thomas Hearns or Sugar Ray leonard. Marvin Hagler wasn't a big Middleweight at all.
You usually know what you are talking about, but I have seen all those Hagler fights, and most of them weren't wars at all. An example was Hagler vs Mugabi, Hagler boxed the shit out of Mugabi, Mugabi was a poor boxer, he had decent speed and good power, but he didn't land all that much against Hagler.

If Hearns wasn't a natural WW, why did he fight from 1977 to 1981 more or less at welterweight? Obviously he carried his power up, but it wasn't the same as what it was p4p at welterweight. Also are you seriously goign to argue Leonard was bigger than Hagler or close to the same size because he was taller? Maybe you are going to argue that Robinson was bigger than Lamotta because he was taller. That's stupid Leonard was way smaller then Hagler in the ring, he looked about 15 pounds lighter. You talk about all Hagler's wars, waht about what Leonard went through with Duran in their first fight? What he went through against Hearns? His detached retina? Him not fighting for 3 years. Hearns and Leonard were able to move up because of their skill, speed, and power. You are using height to compare size which is stupid because Mike Tyson was shorter than Leonard and Hearns, is he smaller? Hagler had so much more natural muscle density not to mention his concrete head that he was a very big middleweight like Lamotta. He didn't fight that many wars, and the guys you mentioned like Roldan were roll overs, I mean Michael Nunn ko'ed Roldan.

90% of his opponents Hagler steam rolled. Same with Hopkins who had limited troubles against guys like Echols, but you can't call those wars.

Also of course Hearns' chin let him down, obviously he was a little spent, but mostly his inability to fight on the inside, and his inability to take Ray's power let him down. He was tired, but so was Leoanrd, Leonard was getting battered the whole fight.

ALso I didn't read it but you said Duran-Hagler wasn't close? Maybe you should watch it again. Hagler barely won that fight, and that was because of his size advantage.

Also I am not comparing records I am comparing what I've seen and Hagler was barely better than these guys at his own weight class. The fact is that he could have moved up to crusierweight or higher had he foughten longer, he wasn't that much slower against Leoanrd than he was earlier, he didn't have the ring rust Leonard had, he should have won that fihgt, and he should have dominated Duran, but he couldn't. He wasn't the best tactician, he was relatively easy to hit against the top guys, and he wasnt' overly fast. He obviously was able to steamroll average competition because like I said he was in fact a great fighter, but not like Duran or Leonard or even Hearns.