Boxing and brain damage.

[Youngblood]

I look at it this way, Cell phones have been around for what, 15-20 years max. What long term effects might that have maybe in another ten years we will all develop brain cancer. My point is there is risks in everything, but that shouldnt be a reason to stop doing something. Ive fought amateur and now fight pro, and yes you can feel the punches much more, but if fighters worry about what could happen, boxing would be like ballroom dancing. Taking chances and risks is what makes people interesting, not being safe.

While I agree with this, I also believe both boxers and trainers should be well-informed with TBI (traumatic brain injury, and it's varying degrees).

Traumatic brain injury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know I probably at one point already...should have taken a little time off from intense sparring, as was experiencing frequent headaches and likely required a rest from the brain slamming into my cranium.

[El Kabong]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

[Boom Boom]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

[Taeth]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

Getting hit has long term effects, thats what I am saying if you spar once every 3 months you might not do any long term damage, but who spars only once every 3 months? Also slurred speech isn't one of the strongest signs of brain damage. Its one of the most mistaken attributes to brain damage in boxing. People like Evander HOlyfield will be slurring in one interview, but talk fine in another, its because sometimes they are tired(best example is Chuck Liddell), sometimes they are being medicated for their injuries, or they have had a long day.

[Taeth]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

[Boom Boom]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

Maybe that wasnt the best example, but my point is there are risks in everything. I know more people that have been permenantely injured in a car accident than have brain damage. Im not downplaying the severity of it though, cause yes it is a real thing that does happen to some fighters.

[Taeth]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

[holmcall]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

The idea is to concuss another fighter without killing him. That's what it all boils down to. When you enter the ring, that risk presents itself immediately. When you do almost anything else, the risk is not there. Boxing and the MMA stuff increases the risk incredibly. It is what it is and the risk is part of the culture of boxing. If we cannot accept that, then boxing should be abolished. I accept it.

[nola]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

So what I hear you saying is -
if you're killing brain cells via whiskey or tequila, then it's okay.
but if you're doing it for sport or money, then it's not?

Okay, I know I'm a new poster and you aren't, but what a crock!

Yes, the risks are serious and need to be considered, but to make a statement to that effect and follow it up with such a piece of fluff astounds me...

YMMV

[Bomp]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

So what I hear you saying is -
if you're killing brain cells via whiskey or tequila, then it's okay.
but if you're doing it for sport or money, then it's not?

Okay, I know I'm a new poster and you aren't, but what a crock!

Yes, the risks are serious and need to be considered, but to make a statement to that effect and follow it up with such a piece of fluff astounds me...

YMMV

I think you missed that he was saying it with a touch of irony.

Trainer Monkey is spot on with Reyes, the whole point of a boxing glove is protection, and in reality they should only be manufactured by the regulators who should then strive to improve the technology when possible.

[El Kabong]

The main danger in getting hit in the back of the head is the brain stem is right there which is the control board for the central nervous system. The occipital lobe is also back there which is why G-Man is now blind from being hit in the back of the head.


Since the stem is where the brain is anchored it stands to reason the brain won't slosh around as much if you hit it from the back but it'll cause more damage as the back of the head is the most vulnerable part. The frontal lobe controls emotions and memory retention which is important but not as important as telling your heart to beat and your lungs to take in air which is what the brain stem does.

[DaxxKahn]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Contrary to popular belief and some outdated reports it is not glove size that really matters when it comes to the damage....a pair of 18oz gloves will cause as much damage as a pair of 10oz over a long period of time...Glove size really only helps during the duration of the bout....

The constant sloshing of the brain is what causes the damage....

Punch Drunk Syndrome/Pugilistic Dementia- is from a long periods of abuse...most signs show up after 10 or so years in those effected

It can be developed one of two ways...

1. Abundance of concussions in a short period of time

2. Exposure to blows to the head not hard enough to cause a concussion but hard enough to cause the brain to move out of it's comfortable status

It is actually the second of the two that is more likely to cause the damage since the first one will force the body to stop taking abuse before the damage becomes to severe....(Those guys that are KO'd 5 times in a row and can not get licensed)

I actually did a study of it in College as a theseus for one of my classes....

They claim to find new things out all the time and reword things to un needed extents but it always comes back the same in the end......

Too much hits to the head....Glove size really has little effect in protecting a fighter from brain damage unless he has a very short career in mind

[Spicoli]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

[Taeth]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

He has had what three concussions? A fighter can have that many in one fight, it doesn't receive the stigma because its nowhere near as bad, and even football is a sport that is now considered a no-no. Actually helmets help with brain damage, hence why you should wear a helmet when riding a bike or motor bike. If you don't believe try falling on your head without a helmet, and then with one, it acts like a cushion, and your brain doesn't move as much. They actually make a bigger deal about football players getting concusions than they do about boxers or guys like Wladimir Klitschko would never fight again. Because everytime you get a concusion its easier to get another one, and they get progressively more dangerous.

Also its not the glove size, but how its made, sparring gloves actually cushion the blow, they have padding that absorbs a significant portion of the power that normally would land on someone. A pro glove is harder, and those there is less of a cushioning effect, and that does make a huge difference, there is a reason why it doesn't effect you as much, and that does mean less brain injury.

[Spicoli]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale receive no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectively a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

He has had what three concussions? A fighter can have that many in one fight, it doesn't receive the stigma because its nowhere near as bad, and even football is a sport that is now considered a no-no. Actually helmets help with brain damage, hence why you should wear a helmet when riding a bike or motor bike. If you don't believe try falling on your head without a helmet, and then with one, it acts like a cushion, and your brain doesn't move as much. They actually make a bigger deal about football players getting concussions than they do about boxers or guys like Wladimir Klitschko would never fight again. Because everytime you get a concusion its easier to get another one, and they get progressively more dangerous.

Also its not the glove size, but how its made, sparring gloves actually cushion the blow, they have padding that absorbs a significant portion of the power that normally would land on someone. A pro glove is harder, and those there is less of a cushioning effect, and that does make a huge difference, there is a reason why it doesn't effect you as much, and that does mean less brain injury.

Actually I believe it was about 10 or 11,and as is norm increasing in regularity.One thing about football compared to boxing is the individual basis that members compete on.And when a free safety comes flying across open field and lays out a reciever,it does not have to be a headshot.The concussive force of impact,mass per mass can result in an equally emphatic "KO".Boxing is just as much a training of defense as it is an offense but when a defensive specialist is in the ring....fans often react not so kindly unless they implement telling offense as well,landing shots.In football a guy streaks down the sideline for a returned TD,avoiding tackles the entire way,they are superstars.When a Linebacker flattens a QB,they are monsters......A boxer must be both at once.

The point about the helmuts/headgear I'm making is that a boxer has more mass of the head to connect with.Even a clipping shot,regardless of gloves sends shockwaves through the cranium.Not visually devastating but what happens inside the head can not be seen.Honestly,It would be interesting to hear from some of our Boxing members.I have never been in the ring and the best testament I can give to being concussed are squabbles on the pavement....when I was out numbered of course. Look,we as fans understand what we are seeing,Boxing is a beautiful sport of offense AND defense.Sadly tragedies happen and it is incumbent on us,as well as everyone involved ,to minimize those risks.We should speak openly of it and this thread needs to be spoken on.Nice to address it but I'd be a hypocrite to berate and single out boxing as a lone culprit.I in a very small way,'except' the dangers and after effects....but that pales and is utterly insignificant to what fighters face every time they climb through the ropes.