When Homework Gets too Much

[killersheep]

Theres more to it then just recipes,apparently theres traditional presentation
Now I have an attitude,if he's going to do something,do it right,there's no point in being adequate.Adequate people exist to fill factories,or ask if you want fries with that.
To do such a report correctly,and ask any of my fighters Im a facist for doing things correctly,he should be at least in the 4th grade.
I was like that as a printer,which was why Im the best ink mixer youve ever seen,Im like that as a trainer,I firmly believe that doing anything good enough is doing it half assed,and that means your down half an ass.

I really don't understand your issue with this assignment, you said he was capable, you also said he had a high IQ, why would he have difficulty "doing it right". He's there to learn the concepts of research and communicating what he researched. Surely he's not being asked to do something different than his classmates.

Actually he is,he scored the most difficult of the assignments,and learning should have a level of joy to it
Handing him something like that,is going to come across as almost punitive in his mind for doing well

What does joy have to do with the school system or the assignment? Students of all ages and skill levels have to do work they find punitive. Ultimately you're just complaining and making excuses here. He has the material (posted on this thread). He has the capability to complete this assignment. He is able to perform at a higher level (which is what you require, so he is not just adequate). With all that being said, it is ultimately coming down to your doubts in his abilities at his age. Have some faith in your son that he can do this and do it well. He will also reflect your doubts in the teachers by acting out in class, you need to work together with his teacher not against them, or you will just see more lashing out and poorer performance in school.

[Trainer Monkey]

I really don't understand your issue with this assignment, you said he was capable, you also said he had a high IQ, why would he have difficulty "doing it right". He's there to learn the concepts of research and communicating what he researched. Surely he's not being asked to do something different than his classmates.

Actually he is,he scored the most difficult of the assignments,and learning should have a level of joy to it
Handing him something like that,is going to come across as almost punitive in his mind for doing well

What does joy have to do with the school system or the assignment? Students of all ages and skill levels have to do work they find punitive. Ultimately you're just complaining and making excuses here. He has the material (posted on this thread). He has the capability to complete this assignment. He is able to perform at a higher level (which is what you require, so he is not just adequate). With all that being said, it is ultimately coming down to your doubts in his abilities at his age. Have some faith in your son that he can do this and do it well. He will also reflect your doubts in the teachers by acting out in class, you need to work together with his teacher not against them, or you will just see more lashing out and poorer performance in school.

Why?
My grandather could even make punitive learning assignments seem interesting.
My main worry as far as he goes,is his handwriting is allmost as bad as mine,and the presentation has to be in his hand writing.
Now frankly Im being a dick about it,because I want him to take his own notes,and then write it with his own voice.
I'll help him with pronunciation,but thats just about it,maybe other parents run their show different,but if he gets an assignment its his assignment.y job is to make sure he does it,not do it for him.

[killersheep]

Actually he is,he scored the most difficult of the assignments,and learning should have a level of joy to it
Handing him something like that,is going to come across as almost punitive in his mind for doing well

What does joy have to do with the school system or the assignment? Students of all ages and skill levels have to do work they find punitive. Ultimately you're just complaining and making excuses here. He has the material (posted on this thread). He has the capability to complete this assignment. He is able to perform at a higher level (which is what you require, so he is not just adequate). With all that being said, it is ultimately coming down to your doubts in his abilities at his age. Have some faith in your son that he can do this and do it well. He will also reflect your doubts in the teachers by acting out in class, you need to work together with his teacher not against them, or you will just see more lashing out and poorer performance in school.

Why?
My grandather could even make punitive learning assignments seem interesting.
My main worry as far as he goes,is his handwriting is allmost as bad as mine,and the presentation has to be in his hand writing.
Now frankly Im being a dick about it,because I want him to take his own notes,and then write it with his own voice.
I'll help him with pronunciation,but thats just about it,maybe other parents run their show different,but if he gets an assignment its his assignment.y job is to make sure he does it,not do it for him.

I don't understand your argument here. You have clearly stated he has the capability to do this. Second graders as a rule of thumb have bad handwriting, I doubt very seriously that this is the issue, as that would be expected.

[Trainer Monkey]

What does joy have to do with the school system or the assignment? Students of all ages and skill levels have to do work they find punitive. Ultimately you're just complaining and making excuses here. He has the material (posted on this thread). He has the capability to complete this assignment. He is able to perform at a higher level (which is what you require, so he is not just adequate). With all that being said, it is ultimately coming down to your doubts in his abilities at his age. Have some faith in your son that he can do this and do it well. He will also reflect your doubts in the teachers by acting out in class, you need to work together with his teacher not against them, or you will just see more lashing out and poorer performance in school.

Why?
My grandather could even make punitive learning assignments seem interesting.
My main worry as far as he goes,is his handwriting is allmost as bad as mine,and the presentation has to be in his hand writing.
Now frankly Im being a dick about it,because I want him to take his own notes,and then write it with his own voice.
I'll help him with pronunciation,but thats just about it,maybe other parents run their show different,but if he gets an assignment its his assignment.y job is to make sure he does it,not do it for him.

I don't understand your argument here. You have clearly stated he has the capability to do this. Second graders as a rule of thumb have bad handwriting, I doubt very seriously that this is the issue, as that would be expected.

Its a very serious issue,you want to keep learning fun,not make it feel punitive.
A kid who feels like learning is a punishment,is a kid who stops wanting to do it.

[killersheep]

Why?
My grandather could even make punitive learning assignments seem interesting.
My main worry as far as he goes,is his handwriting is allmost as bad as mine,and the presentation has to be in his hand writing.
Now frankly Im being a dick about it,because I want him to take his own notes,and then write it with his own voice.
I'll help him with pronunciation,but thats just about it,maybe other parents run their show different,but if he gets an assignment its his assignment.y job is to make sure he does it,not do it for him.

I don't understand your argument here. You have clearly stated he has the capability to do this. Second graders as a rule of thumb have bad handwriting, I doubt very seriously that this is the issue, as that would be expected.

Its a very serious issue,you want to keep learning fun,not make it feel punitive.
A kid who feels like learning is a punishment,is a kid who stops wanting to do it.

And a kid whose parents undermine their teachers assignments is a kid that lashes out at school and doesn't do the assignments at all. What are you hoping to accomplish here man? The assignment is still gonna be due fun or not. Not to sound like Teddy Atlas here but, Again you are just making excuses. If the "fun" factor isn't there......make it fun, do what your grandfather did and "make punitive learning assignments seem interesting". Turn it into a game or something. You are making it sound like this one assignment is gonna be the difference between ending up in jail, or being the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. It's just an assignment stop being such a drama queen.

[Trainer Monkey]

I don't understand your argument here. You have clearly stated he has the capability to do this. Second graders as a rule of thumb have bad handwriting, I doubt very seriously that this is the issue, as that would be expected.

Its a very serious issue,you want to keep learning fun,not make it feel punitive.
A kid who feels like learning is a punishment,is a kid who stops wanting to do it.

And a kid whose parents undermine their teachers assignments is a kid that lashes out at school and doesn't do the assignments at all. What are you hoping to accomplish here man? The assignment is still gonna be due fun or not. Not to sound like Teddy Atlas here but, Again you are just making excuses. If the "fun" factor isn't there......make it fun, do what your grandfather did and "make punitive learning assignments seem interesting". Turn it into a game or something. You are making it sound like this one assignment is gonna be the difference between ending up in jail, or being the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. It's just an assignment stop being such a drama queen.

Did I say I dont? The kids better at anatomy or geography then you are,Im good at geography,and I think he knows more then me, I keep it loose for him,and if you do,you get amazing results from him. I was just feeling that theres a line between pushing a kid, and making it seem like being intelligent is a punishment all on its own

[Youngblood]

If his IQ is that high, then you need to worry more about them not challenging him...as opposed to them over burdening him I would think.

Here in Canada, and in my school system, they changed the rules for early advanced promotion for those who learn quick. Basically, was stuck in elementary (grade kindergarten to grade eight) with a thirst for knowledge and a dry tap. The internet was somewhat of a savior for that as I was on it young and it filled in many gaps and provided a source of unlimited information.

Not everyone learns the same, and as Lyle points out regarding the herding, standardized testing and teaching to reach for that goal is a system getting lazy and throwing principles out as a rationale for it.

Be glad if he is being tested and challenged. Conformity isn't for everyone.

[killersheep]

Its a very serious issue,you want to keep learning fun,not make it feel punitive.
A kid who feels like learning is a punishment,is a kid who stops wanting to do it.

And a kid whose parents undermine their teachers assignments is a kid that lashes out at school and doesn't do the assignments at all. What are you hoping to accomplish here man? The assignment is still gonna be due fun or not. Not to sound like Teddy Atlas here but, Again you are just making excuses. If the "fun" factor isn't there......make it fun, do what your grandfather did and "make punitive learning assignments seem interesting". Turn it into a game or something. You are making it sound like this one assignment is gonna be the difference between ending up in jail, or being the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. It's just an assignment stop being such a drama queen.

Did I say I dont? The kids better at anatomy or geography then you are,Im good at geography,and I think he knows more then me, I keep it loose for him,and if you do,you get amazing results from him. I was just feeling that theres a line between pushing a kid, and making it seem like being intelligent is a punishment all on its own

I am quite impressed that you know what my anatomy and geography skills are, seeing as how we haven't met. So far you have gone from saying the assignment is too hard, to saying that it's an issue because your son can't be the equivalent to Tony Robbins at speech. Then it's your teachers fault because it isn't fun. Then you go to saying his handwriting isn't good enough, then you insult me saying my geography and anatomy knowledge are less than a second graders. Then you go back to saying you kid is being pushed too hard, although you stated yourself he is capable of doing the assignment and that you have made it interesting.

They are all just excuses. And I will challenge you to any anatomy or geography competition you choose.

[superheavyrhun]

I'm going to kind of agree with Youngblood on this one, in as much as it is much more important to challenge students rather than leave them understimulated and working within their comfort zone.

In my area when i was a sprog, there was really only one school, and there wasn't really any division or enough flexibility in the curriculum, and there were a lot of brighter kids there who were constantly getting in trouble, messing about in class, backchat to teachers etc etc, because the lessons were really rather basic, and not exactly a good environment.

I know it seems like an obscure topic for a presentation, but I would support the idea that the teacher would provide individual subjects that weren't the same difficulty for the bright kids and the intellectually challenged, because otherwise it's only the middle of the road kids in the class that get things at the right level.

[Trainer Monkey]

And a kid whose parents undermine their teachers assignments is a kid that lashes out at school and doesn't do the assignments at all. What are you hoping to accomplish here man? The assignment is still gonna be due fun or not. Not to sound like Teddy Atlas here but, Again you are just making excuses. If the "fun" factor isn't there......make it fun, do what your grandfather did and "make punitive learning assignments seem interesting". Turn it into a game or something. You are making it sound like this one assignment is gonna be the difference between ending up in jail, or being the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. It's just an assignment stop being such a drama queen.

Did I say I dont? The kids better at anatomy or geography then you are,Im good at geography,and I think he knows more then me, I keep it loose for him,and if you do,you get amazing results from him. I was just feeling that theres a line between pushing a kid, and making it seem like being intelligent is a punishment all on its own

I am quite impressed that you know what my anatomy and geography skills are, seeing as how we haven't met. So far you have gone from saying the assignment is too hard, to saying that it's an issue because your son can't be the equivalent to Tony Robbins at speech. Then it's your teachers fault because it isn't fun. Then you go to saying his handwriting isn't good enough, then you insult me saying my geography and anatomy knowledge are less than a second graders. Then you go back to saying you kid is being pushed too hard, although you stated yourself he is capable of doing the assignment and that you have made it interesting.

They are all just excuses. And I will challenge you to any anatomy or geography competition you choose.

Well,all things considered,my wife has her degree in sports medicine from PSU,and he reminds her of stuff she's forgotten, it was a relatively safe roll of the dice last year he got interested in anatomy,and we ended up having to get him college level books just to keep up with him.
The year before that it was geography,we ended up having to stash our gazateers or hed be dragging them all over the house.
And as far as insulting you,I did also point out,that he knows more about human anatomy then I do. Now you can be "insulted that I said he has a better knowledge of anatomy then you do" of course that would entail me being insulted by myself.
I didnt say he was your every day 2nd grader,when he decides he's interested in something he becomes lazer focused and will learn everything he can about a subject.He prpbably knows more about Total Drama Island then either of us,but just as my encyclopedic knowlege of Looney Tunes didnt help me in later life,I doubt that knowledge comes up on a job interview when he's 21. Hell when I was in 2nd grade,I probably knew more about Mako Sharks then any adult around me,they just fascinated me,he's just fascinated by different things then I am.
I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what made him get fascinated in those two subjects at an age when I was fascinated in knowing the exact amount of homeruns Hank Aaron hit,but there it is.He's not particullarly interested in sports so it frees up his time for other activities,something I envy of him,because I could probably have done more with the knowledge he's interested in,then knowing Ken Reitz was a 3rd baseman the Cardinals acquired from the Giants who ended up getting blackballed from major league baseball and ended up playing for the Bees. Or that David Bowie changed his name from David Jones to avoid confusion with Monkee Davey Jones. Its these little factoids Im convinced filled the space in my brain where algebra could have taken root.
But back to point,you cant say Kenyan food and customs arent too difficult a task for a second grader, and then say you should be offended that the same second grader was capable about knowing more about human anatomy then yourself. And you cant go back to the saw that his handwriting is bad,so is most doctors,my handwriting is atrocious, when Im working on buisness I make my wife take notes,so that way we'll be able to read it later.
If he had to give a handwritten oral presentation on anatomy,I wouldnt worry, but food is not his forte. Food as far as he's concerned consists of the cereal/poptart group the spaghettio/hotdog on a bun with a wavy line group, and the turn up his nose at whatever I made for his dinner group

[killersheep]

Did I say I dont? The kids better at anatomy or geography then you are,Im good at geography,and I think he knows more then me, I keep it loose for him,and if you do,you get amazing results from him. I was just feeling that theres a line between pushing a kid, and making it seem like being intelligent is a punishment all on its own

I am quite impressed that you know what my anatomy and geography skills are, seeing as how we haven't met. So far you have gone from saying the assignment is too hard, to saying that it's an issue because your son can't be the equivalent to Tony Robbins at speech. Then it's your teachers fault because it isn't fun. Then you go to saying his handwriting isn't good enough, then you insult me saying my geography and anatomy knowledge are less than a second graders. Then you go back to saying you kid is being pushed too hard, although you stated yourself he is capable of doing the assignment and that you have made it interesting.

They are all just excuses. And I will challenge you to any anatomy or geography competition you choose.

Well,all things considered,my wife has her degree in sports medicine from PSU,and he reminds her of stuff she's forgotten, it was a relatively safe roll of the dice last year he got interested in anatomy,and we ended up having to get him college level books just to keep up with him.
The year before that it was geography,we ended up having to stash our gazateers or hed be dragging them all over the house.
And as far as insulting you,I did also point out,that he knows more about human anatomy then I do. Now you can be "insulted that I said he has a better knowledge of anatomy then you do" of course that would entail me being insulted by myself.
I didnt say he was your every day 2nd grader,when he decides he's interested in something he becomes lazer focused and will learn everything he can about a subject.He prpbably knows more about Total Drama Island then either of us,but just as my encyclopedic knowlege of Looney Tunes didnt help me in later life,I doubt that knowledge comes up on a job interview when he's 21. Hell when I was in 2nd grade,I probably knew more about Mako Sharks then any adult around me,they just fascinated me,he's just fascinated by different things then I am.
I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what made him get fascinated in those two subjects at an age when I was fascinated in knowing the exact amount of homeruns Hank Aaron hit,but there it is.He's not particullarly interested in sports so it frees up his time for other activities,something I envy of him,because I could probably have done more with the knowledge he's interested in,then knowing Ken Reitz was a 3rd baseman the Cardinals acquired from the Giants who ended up getting blackballed from major league baseball and ended up playing for the Bees. Or that David Bowie changed his name from David Jones to avoid confusion with Monkee Davey Jones. Its these little factoids Im convinced filled the space in my brain where algebra could have taken root.
But back to point,you cant say Kenyan food and customs arent too difficult a task for a second grader, and then say you should be offended that the same second grader was capable about knowing more about human anatomy then yourself. And you cant go back to the saw that his handwriting is bad,so is most doctors,my handwriting is atrocious, when Im working on buisness I make my wife take notes,so that way we'll be able to read it later.
If he had to give a handwritten oral presentation on anatomy,I wouldnt worry, but food is not his forte. Food as far as he's concerned consists of the cereal/poptart group the spaghettio/hotdog on a bun with a wavy line group, and the turn up his nose at whatever I made for his dinner group

I still didn't see the part where you explain why this assignment is too much. You didn't mention anything about customs before other than the food they eat. Certainly you can slag me and change the topic all you want, but you still haven't given a good argument to substantiate your initial point.

Reasons you have alleged
1. The topic is too advanced for him.
You then stated he is capable of doing the assignment
2. The topic is punitive to him.
You then stated you were capable of making it interesting to him
3. His handwriting is not good enough to read by himself during his presentation
You cannot make me believe, that he will be unable to read basic food products.
4. Kenyan foods are too advanced for a second grader
This is much more basic than you make it sound, simply what food they eat is the topic you initially claimed. By second grade and his upbringing with the foods you prepare he cannot possibly be unfamiliar with basic food staples like corn and potatoes.

I don't see where your lack of confidence in your son comes from, are you just gonna say "if you don't like it, don't do it". Your teacher obviously feels you son is not only capable of this assignment, but also that your son should be pushed to excel.

[Trainer Monkey]

No I think its excessive,not imposable. We worked on it again today. Most kenyan food is not basic food products,I did the research myself before I whined about it, the kids never even seen an oyster let alone ate one. There's also different styles of cooking that are described in African,which is different dialect then he's used to. Again,he has the assignment,and if he has the assignment he's going to do as good of a job as he can with it. But that makes it more then "They like corn and peas alot" the end

[Trainer Monkey]

I'm going to kind of agree with Youngblood on this one, in as much as it is much more important to challenge students rather than leave them understimulated and working within their comfort zone.

In my area when i was a sprog, there was really only one school, and there wasn't really any division or enough flexibility in the curriculum, and there were a lot of brighter kids there who were constantly getting in trouble, messing about in class, backchat to teachers etc etc, because the lessons were really rather basic, and not exactly a good environment.

I know it seems like an obscure topic for a presentation, but I would support the idea that the teacher would provide individual subjects that weren't the same difficulty for the bright kids and the intellectually challenged, because otherwise it's only the middle of the road kids in the class that get things at the right level.

Ok I can see your point of view
He's the smart one,he gets the tougher assignment. But you have to admit,as the parent of a second grader,if that was sitting in your kids book bag youd find yourself choking and saying "They want a report on what?"

[killersheep]

No I think its excessive,not imposable. We worked on it again today. Most kenyan food is not basic food products,I did the research myself before I whined about it, the kids never even seen an oyster let alone ate one. There's also different styles of cooking that are described in African,which is different dialect then he's used to. Again,he has the assignment,and if he has the assignment he's going to do as good of a job as he can with it. But that makes it more then "They like corn and peas alot" the end

As a side note, I'm going to make some Irio tomorrow. And for the record kenyan food IS basic food products. Corn, potatoes, maize and beans. People that live in landlocked regions eat cows and goats and drink milk. People near the water eat fish stews and rice. Nothing crazy here.

Crazy would be indigenous fruits to southeast asia like Lychee, Soursop and Rambutan.

[Trainer Monkey]

No I think its excessive,not imposable. We worked on it again today. Most kenyan food is not basic food products,I did the research myself before I whined about it, the kids never even seen an oyster let alone ate one. There's also different styles of cooking that are described in African,which is different dialect then he's used to. Again,he has the assignment,and if he has the assignment he's going to do as good of a job as he can with it. But that makes it more then "They like corn and peas alot" the end

As a side note, I'm going to make some Irio tomorrow.

Really?,I hate freaking peas. You doing the basic mash or are you doing the mignon overlay as well.