A paradox about p4p rankings

[CGM]

So which fighter rankings in the Ring's list do you think are just subject to their opinions?

Of course we can all disagree to an extent thinking one fighter should be rated higher than another but to suggest they just do it on a whim is ridiculous.

They follow clearly defined guidelines where their own 'point of view' is minimised as much as possible.

A clear demonstration of this is the Ring's ranking of Juan Manuel Marquez as the Ring Champ at lightweight even though they have Manny as the world's best fighter.

Even though Manny beat Marquez earlier this year, and even though he's clearly the most acomplished fighter in the world right now in terms of fight results and achievements they Marquez as champ because he won the linear title. Their personal opinion on who is best did not come to it. He's the linear champ, he's number 1.

With the p4p rankings themselves the rules and guidelines are less concrete and maybe more abstract but they are still guided by their own carefully set up principles established over 100 years of experience.

You can be pretty sure that when the Ring magazine rates a fighter in the top 10 that his acomplishments and recent fight performances in particular have earned him that right.

As for other magazines, tv stations, websites and forum members p4p rankings, I agree they often seem to be completely bizarre and biased to one or two weight classes but they are the not official p4p rankings.

When you are talking p4p rankings, you are talking The Ring Magazine and their criteria for judging are carefully defined and personal opinion does not factor much into their decisions if at all.

OK lets clarify. Of course facts and results play a role, It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to the bare facts, there's subjectivity and opinion also. I'd be rather surprised if you tried to tell me that Ring Rankings contain no subjectivity.

edit: duly noted on Tessitore and McGuigan LOL

There's some personal bias of course but it's very small imo. I mean look at their current top 10 and honestly you can't really criticise it. I mean I'd like to have Joe Calzaghe at number 2 seeing as beat Hopkins this year who was number 5 p4p at the time and has never lost a fight, whereas Marquez got beat against Manny Pacqiauo and has lost a couple times in his career but it's a minor niggle, a difference of one place. I wouldn't have R Marquez in the top 10 either, back to back losses should have seen him drop down. I'd probably bump the others below him up and have Paul Williams on the list at number 10 instead.

Aside from that the rankings are very fair imo, and there's no doubt that R Marquez is a brilliant fighter and still one of the best in the world even if I wouldn't have him at 7 personally.

Oh, I have no problem with calling the rankings fair, and I have no major disagreement with the p4p rankings. But it sure aint an exact science. I'd say there's a lot more opinion than you claim. If there wasn't, then they wouldn't need guys like McGuigan and Tessitore on the selection team would they? That's the thing about opinions, you get enough people giving them and things tend to even out and discrepancies disappear.

[Kev]

OK lets clarify. Of course facts and results play a role, It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to the bare facts, there's subjectivity and opinion also. I'd be rather surprised if you tried to tell me that Ring Rankings contain no subjectivity.

edit: duly noted on Tessitore and McGuigan LOL

There's some personal bias of course but it's very small imo. I mean look at their current top 10 and honestly you can't really criticise it. I mean I'd like to have Joe Calzaghe at number 2 seeing as beat Hopkins this year who was number 5 p4p at the time and has never lost a fight, whereas Marquez got beat against Manny Pacqiauo and has lost a couple times in his career but it's a minor niggle, a difference of one place. I wouldn't have R Marquez in the top 10 either, back to back losses should have seen him drop down. I'd probably bump the others below him up and have Paul Williams on the list at number 10 instead.

Aside from that the rankings are very fair imo, and there's no doubt that R Marquez is a brilliant fighter and still one of the best in the world even if I wouldn't have him at 7 personally.

Oh, I have no problem with calling the rankings fair, and I have no major disagreement with the p4p rankings. But it sure aint an exact science. I'd say there's a lot more opinion than you claim. If there wasn't, then they wouldn't need guys like McGuigan and Tessitore on the selection team would they? That's the thing about opinions, you get enough people giving them and things tend to even out and discrepancies disappear.

I think we can be fairly sure that Mcguigan's opinion at least isnt taken seriously by the Ring. If it was Amir Khan would be in the top 5

[CGM]

There's some personal bias of course but it's very small imo. I mean look at their current top 10 and honestly you can't really criticise it. I mean I'd like to have Joe Calzaghe at number 2 seeing as beat Hopkins this year who was number 5 p4p at the time and has never lost a fight, whereas Marquez got beat against Manny Pacqiauo and has lost a couple times in his career but it's a minor niggle, a difference of one place. I wouldn't have R Marquez in the top 10 either, back to back losses should have seen him drop down. I'd probably bump the others below him up and have Paul Williams on the list at number 10 instead.

Aside from that the rankings are very fair imo, and there's no doubt that R Marquez is a brilliant fighter and still one of the best in the world even if I wouldn't have him at 7 personally.

Oh, I have no problem with calling the rankings fair, and I have no major disagreement with the p4p rankings. But it sure aint an exact science. I'd say there's a lot more opinion than you claim. If there wasn't, then they wouldn't need guys like McGuigan and Tessitore on the selection team would they? That's the thing about opinions, you get enough people giving them and things tend to even out and discrepancies disappear.

I think we can be fairly sure that Mcguigan's opinion at least isnt taken seriously by the Ring. If it was Amir Khan would be in the top 5

You're the one who said McGuigan was on the team. Anyways, it's time to move on, in my opinion. We've about wrung this topic dry.