Does anybody think Valuev won?

[Andre]

Normaly when there are controvercial judges score cards there are some who think they got it wrong and some who think they got it right.

Does anybody think they got it right last night?

Soon as i find the fight on rapidshare to download i'll let you know mush

Dont bother mate lifes too short.watch just one round and take it from there.

[killersheep]

Evander bounced around on his toes

Hes not back on reality telly in a ball room dancing competition unfortunately, Valuev did outland him, Holyfield did bugger all other then skirt around the ring

According to the punch track stats Holyfield outlanded Valuev, Holyfield effectively countered Valuev and fought his fight all 12 rounds. Horrible fight, but Holyfield based on any scenario other that missed punches won this easily. Here is the criteria for scoring a round


clean punching. Knowing that Valuev landed 13% and indeed during the bout Valuev landed one meaningful shot the entire match. I would give a maximum 3 rounds to Valuev based on this criteria.

effective aggressiveness. Did not exist in this bout IMO I could not award this category to either combatant because of lack of activity.

ring generalship. Clearly Holyfield wins here, he fought his fight all 12 rounds, Valuev did nothing but clumsily pivot and throw wide shots on the occasion that he threw at all, Holyfield CHOSE the range, tempo and angles.

defense. Holyfield was landing when he threw and Valuev wasn't. Holyfield owns this too.
I don't understand how anyone could give this fight to Valuev..

[Bomp]

Just watched a couple rounds. Valuev is beyond a joke now. Chagaev needs to up the pace and try and KO him next time, so we're rid of him. He was a curiousity at first, and is a naturally tough guy, but should not be champ of the world.

[Kel]

Evander bounced around on his toes

Hes not back on reality telly in a ball room dancing competition unfortunately, Valuev did outland him, Holyfield did bugger all other then skirt around the ring

He made Valuev look as poor as he always has been. Valuev can't hit a moving target for shit!..He ain't got the speed to land one. Holyfields ring generalship won rounds, Valuev could not mount any form of attack.

[ross]

[quote=killersheep;657823][quote=ross;657295]

According to the punch track stats Holyfield outlanded Valuev

Id like to know where you got the stats from because Ive seen so many people give Holyfield the first and last rounds on punches landed and its just bullshiit.

I say he first and last because they were the only 2 I could be bothered to rewatch and count and Holyfield is outpunched, someone on here claimed to have counted the first round punches and Valuev only had 2!! Rubbish, he didn t land a great deal more but he did land more.

Also, ring generlship is not running around, controling the centre of the ring and bossing a fight is, thats why its called general....ship.

Im more annoyed with Valuev for not putting more of an effort in because in the late rounds he could have quite easy just pushed the old drug cheat over

[killersheep]

[quote=ross;657877][quote=killersheep;657823]

Id like to know where you got the stats from because Ive seen so many people give Holyfield the first and last rounds on punches landed and its just bullshiit.

I say he first and last because they were the only 2 I could be bothered to rewatch and count and Holyfield is outpunched, someone on here claimed to have counted the first round punches and Valuev only had 2!! Rubbish, he didn t land a great deal more but he did land more.

Also, ring generlship is not running around, controling the centre of the ring and bossing a fight is, thats why its called general....ship.

Im more annoyed with Valuev for not putting more of an effort in because in the late rounds he could have quite easy just pushed the old drug cheat over

According to the 1929 Rules of the New York State Athletic Commission, for example, “ring generalship” comprised "such points as the ability to quickly grasp and take advantage of every opportunity offered, the capacity to cope with all kinds of situations which may arise; to foresee and neutralize an opponent’s method of attack; to force an opponent to adopt a style of boxing at which he is not particularly skillful."

[Kel]

[quote=ross;657877][quote=killersheep;657823]

Id like to know where you got the stats from because Ive seen so many people give Holyfield the first and last rounds on punches landed and its just bullshiit.

I say he first and last because they were the only 2 I could be bothered to rewatch and count and Holyfield is outpunched, someone on here claimed to have counted the first round punches and Valuev only had 2!! Rubbish, he didn t land a great deal more but he did land more.

Also, ring generlship is not running around, controling the centre of the ring and bossing a fight is, thats why its called general....ship.

Im more annoyed with Valuev for not putting more of an effort in because in the late rounds he could have quite easy just pushed the old drug cheat over

Ring generalship involves neutralising your opponents offence, Holyfield did plenty of that in my opinion, using his movement.

[Kel]

[quote=killersheep;657882][quote=ross;657877]

According to the 1929 Rules of the New York State Athletic Commission, for example, “ring generalship” comprised "such points as the ability to quickly grasp and take advantage of every opportunity offered, the capacity to cope with all kinds of situations which may arise; to foresee and neutralize an opponent’s method of attack; to force an opponent to adopt a style of boxing at which he is not particularly skillful."

And what he said

[ross]

force an opponent to adopt a style of boxing at which he is not particularly skillful."

You mean like Valuev forcing Evan Fields in to his Fred Astair routine

[killersheep]

force an opponent to adopt a style of boxing at which he is not particularly skillful."

You mean like Valuev forcing Evan Fields in to his Fred Astair routine

Holyfield's strategy was to keep Valuev turning and counter when Yeti got close. He did that, Valuev looked unskilled in the chase. Tell me ross, what was Valuev's strategy?

[ross]

When you are Valuevs size, you dont need a strategy.

Evan against the Kilitschkos hed dwarf them, being 4 to 6 inches taller than the tallest one, depending on what height you believe himt o be, 7 foot or 7,2".

All Valuev has to do is keep punching and walk his man down, its little boxers like Holyfield who have to adapt how they fight for such a huge man.

[killersheep]

When you are Valuevs size, you dont need a strategy.

Evan against the Kilitschkos hed dwarf them, being 4 to 6 inches taller than the tallest one, depending on what height you believe himt o be, 7 foot or 7,2".

All Valuev has to do is keep punching and walk his man down, its little boxers like Holyfield who have to adapt how they fight for such a huge man.

There you go, he didn't do that. Next question, what would you have changed in Holyfields plan, or what do you feel Holyfield failed to do in his strategy?

[CGM]

Downloaded the fight yesterday, watched only the first round, then I got bored. But I thought Valuev could easily have won the first round, which seems to go against popular wisdom. Do other people see the first round as being typical? Or did Holyfield assert himself more as the fight went on?

[killersheep]

Downloaded the fight yesterday, watched only the first round, then I got bored. But I thought Valuev could easily have won the first round, which seems to go against popular wisdom. Do other people see the first round as being typical? Or did Holyfield assert himself more as the fight went on?

It was an absolutely dreadful fight to watch, I gave most rounds to Holy because he had answers for almost everything that Valuev threw, and he was executing his gameplan. Garbage fight, Holyfield deserved the nod big time though. Valuev did nothing of value, most of what little he threw missed or got countered and at no point was the fight on Valuev's terms.
I really don't want this argument to escalate because I hope I never have to see it again.

[ross]

what would you have changed in Holyfields plan, or what do you feel Holyfield failed to do in his strategy?

He failed to work, he didnt get anyones attention with any eye catching work, or just......work, the best anyone could say about Holyfield is that he managed to move well on his legs for a 46 year old for the full 12 rounds but then he wasnt under any real pressure.

Valuev did more than Holyfield which gives him the win.