*Glory, Glory Man United*

[CutMeMick]

The problem with your last statement, Mick, is that you have picked teams that are fantastically successful by international standards.

America: One of the most successful Mexican clubs, although I think they are just behind Chivas, correct me if I'm mistaken, but nevertherless a very successful team. If you are Mexican by background than obviously that would explain why you support them.

Real Madrid: Commonly acknowledged as the 'best' club in history with the most Spanish championships & European Cup wins.

Borussia Dortmund: Not the most successful now, but in the 90's they were pretty shit-hot, winning the Champions League in 97 & a few German Championships around that time thanks to players like Sammer & Moller.

LA Galaxy: Won't call you on this one as I've gathered you live in LA.

AC Milan: 2nd most successful club with 7 European Cups, and the most successful football club in the world from the late 80's to present time.

River Plate: One of the most successful teams in South America, with only Boca Juniors, and a few Brazilian teams bearing comparisom with them.

Man Utd: The most successful British team of the 90's to present. Arguably the most popular club in the world in the last 10-15 years.

Argentina: After, Brazil, Germany & Italy, they are the most successful int'l side, particularly in the last 40 odd years. 2 World Cups & countless Copa Americas don't lie. Almost anywhere with a half-decent football team, you would be expected to support either the country your in, or one where you have some background. For example, whilst I don't support England (long story, bad experiences with fans etc etc), I do support both Italy & Ghana in int'l tournaments as these are the places my family has come from.

See, Mick the problem here is you haven't gone for supporting Aston Villa or Udinese in any particular case, you've always gone for the big, successful team.

What do you do when these teams play each other? Who do you support?

You've got some VERY valid points.
BUT

Can I help it if as a kid I picked sides or teams that I grew up watching.
Teams that were commonly on TV?

As a kid my grand father rooted for Chivas and wanted his kids and grand kids to be Chivas..... He is the ONLY Chiva today.
23 grandkids ALL root for America, 6 kids ALL root for America 2 of them are women

Growing up FoxSports would mainly show United games or Real Madrid games. If you notice my Internatinal team of choice is Argentina, always has and always will.

During the world cup in Germany when Argentina eliminated Mexico ALL of my family gathered to watch the game. I was wearing my Crespo jersey when Maxi dropped the bomb my family rushed me and ripped my jersey to shreads and poured beer allover me...

I always back United up regardless of whom they play.
When Real Madrid busted our asses 4-3 in the CL, I was gutted but I moved on and could only applaud Ronaldos brilliance.

A team you used to watch as a 16/17 year old, maybe this is a cultural thing, but in most of Europe you would be expected (yes EXPECTED) to have settled on a football team by the time you are 12 at the most.

Well Jaz, I do live in the US and to think that as 16/17 yr. old I was starting to follow United is pretty damn! impressive.
By the time I was 4, I was already wearing my America jersey and chanting America, America RA! RA! RA!
I wasn't doing with United, well because I guess my dad and grandpa didn't follow the Premiere League.

Also owning DVDs & all the shit these clubs pump out to get your dollar/pound/euro is not what defines a fan, it's what the big clubs do to take advantage of those who support them. Also going through the good & bad times with the teams you've chosen is a hell of a lot easier than going through the good & the bad with the likes of Hull or Sporting Gijon

Anyway Mick, I didn't really mean for this post to be so lecturing, because at the end of the day it won't change your views & your entitled to support whoever you want, but you should probably try to understand why this might irk people in Europe where these clubs are, especially taking into account the financial state of the majority of small European clubs.

No hard feeling at all.
I'd defend my support and love for the United jersey anytime, any place and anywhere. Here in the states or in the streets of Manchester.

This isn't the 1st or last time I'll defend my grounds. I think buying the jerseys, the dvds and all that does make me a fan. It shows the support and wearing a shirt or jersey is a badge of honor. I wear my red with pride.

Well when your a fan of a team ANYTHING short of the cup is a bad season that is a fact.

Anyway fella, no hard feelings just trying to show why your choices might not sit well with those on this side of the pond, but to many here it would be like supporting the Dallas Cowboys, New York Jets, SF 49ers & Pittsburgh Steelers at the same time.

Well see that's where your wrong.
I'll tell you why because those teams ALL happen to play on the same league. The teams I root for ALL play on seperate leagues once in a while they meet in club tourneys.
It's not like I'm saying I support Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Liverpool.
That would be stupid and would make no sense. Which is the example you gave.

I root for the Bulls, 49ERS!, Ducks, A's.
At one point they all had their high praises but I NEVER get flack from anyone for rooting for those teams.
Those are the teams I've always rooted for them and always will.
I have hats, jerseys and all.
I go watch them play as often as I can live, I follow the their seasons and I think that makes me a fan.

[JazMerkin]

The problem with your last statement, Mick, is that you have picked teams that are fantastically successful by international standards.

America: One of the most successful Mexican clubs, although I think they are just behind Chivas, correct me if I'm mistaken, but nevertherless a very successful team. If you are Mexican by background than obviously that would explain why you support them.

Real Madrid: Commonly acknowledged as the 'best' club in history with the most Spanish championships & European Cup wins.

Borussia Dortmund: Not the most successful now, but in the 90's they were pretty shit-hot, winning the Champions League in 97 & a few German Championships around that time thanks to players like Sammer & Moller.

LA Galaxy: Won't call you on this one as I've gathered you live in LA.

AC Milan: 2nd most successful club with 7 European Cups, and the most successful football club in the world from the late 80's to present time.

River Plate: One of the most successful teams in South America, with only Boca Juniors, and a few Brazilian teams bearing comparisom with them.

Man Utd: The most successful British team of the 90's to present. Arguably the most popular club in the world in the last 10-15 years.

Argentina: After, Brazil, Germany & Italy, they are the most successful int'l side, particularly in the last 40 odd years. 2 World Cups & countless Copa Americas don't lie. Almost anywhere with a half-decent football team, you would be expected to support either the country your in, or one where you have some background. For example, whilst I don't support England (long story, bad experiences with fans etc etc), I do support both Italy & Ghana in int'l tournaments as these are the places my family has come from.

See, Mick the problem here is you haven't gone for supporting Aston Villa or Udinese in any particular case, you've always gone for the big, successful team.

What do you do when these teams play each other? Who do you support?

You've got some VERY valid points.
BUT

Can I help it if as a kid I picked sides or teams that I grew up watching.
Teams that were commonly on TV?

As a kid my grand father rooted for Chivas and wanted his kids and grand kids to be Chivas..... He is the ONLY Chiva today.
23 grandkids ALL root for America, 6 kids ALL root for America 2 of them are women

Growing up FoxSports would mainly show United games or Real Madrid games. If you notice my Internatinal team of choice is Argentina, always has and always will.

During the world cup in Germany when Argentina eliminated Mexico ALL of my family gathered to watch the game. I was wearing my Crespo jersey when Maxi dropped the bomb my family rushed me and ripped my jersey to shreads and poured beer allover me...

I always back United up regardless of whom they play.
When Real Madrid busted our asses 4-3 in the CL, I was gutted but I moved on and could only applaud Ronaldos brilliance.

A team you used to watch as a 16/17 year old, maybe this is a cultural thing, but in most of Europe you would be expected (yes EXPECTED) to have settled on a football team by the time you are 12 at the most.

Well Jaz, I do live in the US and to think that as 16/17 yr. old I was starting to follow United is pretty damn! impressive.
By the time I was 4, I was already wearing my America jersey and chanting America, America RA! RA! RA!
I wasn't doing with United, well because I guess my dad and grandpa didn't follow the Premiere League.

Also owning DVDs & all the shit these clubs pump out to get your dollar/pound/euro is not what defines a fan, it's what the big clubs do to take advantage of those who support them. Also going through the good & bad times with the teams you've chosen is a hell of a lot easier than going through the good & the bad with the likes of Hull or Sporting Gijon

Anyway Mick, I didn't really mean for this post to be so lecturing, because at the end of the day it won't change your views & your entitled to support whoever you want, but you should probably try to understand why this might irk people in Europe where these clubs are, especially taking into account the financial state of the majority of small European clubs.

No hard feeling at all.
I'd defend my support and love for the United jersey anytime, any place and anywhere. Here in the states or in the streets of Manchester.

This isn't the 1st or last time I'll defend my grounds. I think buying the jerseys, the dvds and all that does make me a fan. It shows the support and wearing a shirt or jersey is a badge of honor. I wear my red with pride.

Well when your a fan of a team ANYTHING short of the cup is a bad season that is a fact.

Anyway fella, no hard feelings just trying to show why your choices might not sit well with those on this side of the pond, but to many here it would be like supporting the Dallas Cowboys, New York Jets, SF 49ers & Pittsburgh Steelers at the same time.

Well see that's where your wrong.
I'll tell you why because those teams ALL happen to play on the same league. The teams I root for ALL play on seperate leagues once in a while they meet in club tourneys.
It's not like I'm saying I support Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Liverpool.
That would be stupid and would make no sense. Which is the example you gave.

I root for the Bulls, 49ERS!, Ducks, A's.
At one point they all had their high praises but I NEVER get flack from anyone for rooting for those teams.
Those are the teams I've always rooted for them and always will.
I have hats, jerseys and all.
I go watch them play as often as I can live, I follow the their seasons and I think that makes me a fan.

I would say one thing to your last point, & that is if you make the effort to go see your teams play live than that makes you a fan. My point is that owning the paraphernaelia of a club is just the whole thing about the clubs robbing the fans' money, it does not qualify you as a fan of a club. Having some idea of the history of the club & going to matches do. Now I know going to matches might be just a bit difficult coming from LA, my point is more about particularly a lot of Man Utd & Liverpool fans I meet in London, who often don't know who players like Alex Stepney or Phil Neal & have never been to a match, but say "oh but I've got the DVDs of the Champions League Final & I get every new shirt". That's not being a fan, it's being a sheep.

I know my point about NFL teams is a bit loose, what I was trying to demonstrate is that for a lot of people over here, it's a bit confusing to support such an array of teams who will at some stage play each other. How you perceive supporting all those NFL teams playing each other is how a lot of Europeans would see supporting all those teams, I know there is a difference I'm just trying to show you how it would be seen over here.

As for your only point that I strongly disagree with which I've highlighted, with the teams you have chosen yes, not winning a trophy in a season is a failure (I do feel this with Milan), however that ignores the vast majority of teams worldwide who do not have fantastic riches to fall back upon & whose achievements whilst not as a grandiose are far more worthy. Your statement is the equivalent of saying any fighter who has not won a world title is a failure as a boxer. & trust me in a lot of ways it's far more rewarding not supporting a team that will almost always win I know this from experience.

& thank god you meant the REAL Ronaldo (although personally I don't rate him quite that high), the lil' bitchy 1 probably wouldn't get into my top 100 players of all time, at present I don't think he's even the best Portuguese player ever

[CutMeMick]

You know Jaz,
I can def. understand your points but I can't help it if I've been a fan of these clubs for about 15-20 yrs. now it's just the way it's been.

I've talked to lots of people and no ones ever cared.

I personally just see it as the teams I've always supported.

For me I can't see them live at Old Trafford but waking up so early to catch them live on the telie is just like being there for me. I know most of the chants and songs I have them printed out. I sing them out loud and just enjoy the games like I was there.

The jerseys videos and all is just the way I show everyone else where I stand.

[Gandalf]

United are looking really strong right now. As a Liverpool fan that upsets me somewhat, but we only have ourselves to blame. If you cant put teams like Stoke away then you have no right to be hogging the top spot. The Newcastle win was good. But then two patchy performances after. We arent losing any games but we need to pick it up, the next Liverpool:Man U game could be what it comes down to. Aston Villa are doing remarkably well this year too. Strange that.