Damn! Roberto Alomar has AIDS?

[El Kabong]

....sorry, I don't rate him

[CGM]

Whatever. I'm just tellin ya what he did.

[Violent Demise]

....sorry, I don't rate him

You on your own here Lyle. Alomar is a 12 time all star. 10 time gold glove winner. He also has won 4 silver slugger awards. He's a future hall of famer. How can you not rate him but rate a scrub like Tom Herr?

[amat]

No Ozzie was not 10 times that of Vizquel the only thing you can say Ozzie had that was definitively better in the field then Vizquel was an arm. Vizquel has never had a great arm.

I'm sorry but any Vizquel highlight reel can go P4P with Ozzie's and he has the most double plays turned. He's been in the league 19 years now and he still has the best fielding percentage of all time.

I don't have a problem with anyone saying Ozzie was a better shortstop but no way he is 10 times better then Vizquel that's insulting.

[El Kabong]

You on your own here Lyle. Alomar is a 12 time all star. 10 time gold glove winner. He also has won 4 silver slugger awards. He's a future hall of famer. How can you not rate him but rate a scrub like Tom Herr?

Alomar is NOT getting in the Hall....end of discussion!


OK Vizquel is one of the FEW players who can get in the Hall based solely on defense. He has better stas than Ozzie fielding but I would take any number of SS over Vizquel

[CGM]

You on your own here Lyle. Alomar is a 12 time all star. 10 time gold glove winner. He also has won 4 silver slugger awards. He's a future hall of famer. How can you not rate him but rate a scrub like Tom Herr?

Alomar is NOT getting in the Hall....end of discussion!


OK Vizquel is one of the FEW players who can get in the Hall based solely on defense. He has better stas than Ozzie fielding but I would take any number of SS over Vizquel

clearly your grievance against Alomar must be based on something other than baseball accomplishments, and it's pretty obvious what that is, but that's understandable I guess.

End of discussion!!!

[JT Rock]

Lyle is just ignorant sometimes

the problem is he dosent realize just because you dont like something or believe it, dosent mean it aint true...

[CGM]

I can understand someone thinking Alomar is a comlete dick, no problem there, but he was awesome for a lot of years, and very popular before that dustup with the umpire. but there's no doubting Alomar's skills. I'm not sure I've seen a better second baseman.

[Von Milash]

I can understand someone thinking Alomar is a comlete dick, no problem there, but he was awesome for a lot of years, and very popular before that dustup with the umpire. but there's no doubting Alomar's skills. I'm not sure I've seen a better second baseman.

Exactly. Not too many, in fact none, that I can say definitively "He was better than Robbie."

But I will agree with Lyle in one thing.... I'm not so sure he goes to Cooperstown. Despite his numbers, the guy will always be remembered for the wrong reason. It COULD impact the voting in this sense "fuck him. I vote no."

[El Kabong]

OK let's compare Alomar to a couple of good 2nd basemen no one hands down great like Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, or Eddie Collins but some more recent guys. I think his attitude and the STEROID ERA stigma might hamper him getting in but maybe you guys have a point....I'm willing to compare stats

Ryne Sandberg
Avg: .285 Hits: 2,386 HR: 282 RBI: 1,061 SB: 344 Fielding%: .989

Joe Morgan
Avg: .271 Hits: 2,517 HR: 268 RBI: 1,133 SB: 689 Fielding%: .981

Jeff Kent
Avg: .290 Hits: 2,461 HR: 377 RBI: 1,518 SB: 94 Fielding%: .980 (as 2B)

Lou Whittaker
Avg: .276 Hits: 2,369 HR: 244 RBI: 1,084 SB: 143 Fielding%: .984

Roberto Alomar
Avg: .300 Hits: 2,724 HR: 210 RBI: 1,124 SB: 474 Fielding%: .986

So Robbie is up there with these guys but alas he isn't the all out greatest he has ok numbers but like I said Steroid Era + Hirschbeck incident might hurt him.

[CGM]

No disputes. Sandberg was great. So was Morgan. But I think Alomar had a small but clear advantage when you combine both offence and defense. Let's not forget those gold gloves. He lags in longevity though. I have no idea how many gold gloves a guy like Sandberg has, probably a few. But yeah, you are right that you can't call Alomar the flat out greatest, he has tough competition.

Your stats, clearly you mean hits and not HR.

I know, let's start an argument over whether or not Cal Ripkin was overated as a shortstop. I say yes, without the streak, he'd probably be above average, but not an ATG.

[Violent Demise]

You on your own here Lyle. Alomar is a 12 time all star. 10 time gold glove winner. He also has won 4 silver slugger awards. He's a future hall of famer. How can you not rate him but rate a scrub like Tom Herr?

Alomar is NOT getting in the Hall....end of discussion!


OK Vizquel is one of the FEW players who can get in the Hall based solely on defense. He has better stas than Ozzie fielding but I would take any number of SS over Vizquel

LOL. Alomar is getting in. That I have no doubt of.

[JT Rock]

To me no player is off limits as far as considering if they did roinds or not, to the point I gotta wonder if Cal Ripken wasnt taking something his last few years leading up to the record

[El Kabong]

To me no player is off limits as far as considering if they did roinds or not, to the point I gotta wonder if Cal Ripken wasnt taking something his last few years leading up to the record

Oh yeah, that's why I brought up Rickey Henderson....I like the guy but he was SO GOOD I just wonder about him considering his teammates in Oakland.

Also Cal Ripken's buddy Brady Anderson IMO was a juicer....50 HR's in 1996 which was 26 more homers than he hit in any other season.


Matt Williams has to be looked at too....good 3B but I am not without my doubts about him

[JT Rock]

To me no player is off limits as far as considering if they did roinds or not, to the point I gotta wonder if Cal Ripken wasnt taking something his last few years leading up to the record

Oh yeah, that's why I brought up Rickey Henderson....I like the guy but he was SO GOOD I just wonder about him considering his teammates in Oakland.

Also Cal Ripken's buddy Brady Anderson IMO was a juicer....50 HR's in 1996 which was 26 more homers than he hit in any other season.


Matt Williams has to be looked at too....good 3B but I am not without my doubts about him

I'll talk more about this later when I have time. Guys like Cal Ripken,Tony Gwynn and Ricky Henderson are considered throwbacks, and the last crop of great quality player considered to be pure athlete before the steroid era, if any of those 3 were implicated or found to have any ties to PHD then baseball would be set back for many years and the damage would seemingly be irepairable to most bleeding heart windbag writers.

IMO this is far from over, you will see names like the above referenced 3 in the near future, and purists will have to recognize that PHD was part of an evolution process that help promote longevity and gaudy numbers that put asses in seats, everyone profitted from player, owners comissioner etc. and even the fan from an entertainment standpoint. Guys like Bonds will get less scrutinized as the years go by..

I for one are part of the ever growing majority who will follow baseball with the same enthusiasm,nostalgia and zeal that I always had... No matter what its a beautiful game whether a picture dominates a hitter blasts 80 home runs, I love it