Hatton was a Fluke!!

[CGM]

World champion for ten years, and a long resume of guys he beat who held belts. Kostya was 35, a couple of months shy of 36, 4 months down the track. Some names Rodrigues, Pineda, Mayweather, Gonzalez, Ruelas, Chavez, Judah when he was actually a good fighter, Mitchell. Kostya was about 36 when he lost. Ricky to be world champion for ten years, I don't think so,

We all saw what happens to Hatton when the opponent has a ref who wll call a break. So Manchester style refs lead to different results, dont they. Hatton was a club fighter at distance.

Tszyu was p4p no3 according to some sources, p4p no2 others. Look at Marquez, he would get smashed by Tszyu at 140, as way less power, similar game, but also a lesser pressure fighter. The can both counter punch. Marquez won the majority of his 24 rounds with Pacquiao, and he is rated p4p no2.

Hatton cannot even go a full two rounds with Pacquiao, let alone 2 rounds.Fresh..Tszyu hadn't fought more than 3 rounds in nearly two years, and was near Julio Cesar Chavez's age. I give Hatton as much credit for beating Tszyu, as I give Kostya for beating Julio Cesar Chavez. Both guys were old, though the Hatton fight was relatively close. Most guys over 30 are old in boxing terms, Hopkins is the exception. Now Hatton has this problem. Aside from his lucky day, who else can Hatton beatr when their actually still pretty good??

Are you being serious??

Give your head a big wobble mate, you compare Hatton beating p4p number 3 fighter the same as beating JCC Snr the same, youve lost the plot mate, Chevez was done, nowhere to be seen in anyones rankings already dismanteled by Oscar twice, have a look at the fighters records Chevez was fighting after his second ko defeat to Oscar. He was fighting the local bin men from Mexico. You also state Mayweather as a decent win? The same Roger who had been beaton 11 times?? Get your cock out of Kosta bum mate hes a great guy great fighter but dont overhype things here.

Yes i agree Kosta had more time at number 1 but who did he beat? Zab Judah is a great win? Zab Judah is poor mate at the time it was a decent win but Judah has only ever beat Cory Spinks. Just look at the fighters Hatton has fought and the fighters Kosta has fought:

Kosta Hatton

JCC Snr - Phillips
Gonzalez - Maussa
Mitchell twice - Collazo
Urkal - Uranga
Judah - Castillo
Tackie - Lazcano
Leija - Mallinaggi

Lost Lost

Phillips - Mayweather
Pacquio

Now given Kosta reign was for 10 years but he fought fuck all in all honesty in ten years weather it was a fault of his or not, but Hatton and Kostas resume is not much difference in terms of quality, i mean Ricky packed them names into his resume in the space of 3-4 years. Kosta fought his names over space of 10-11.

Kosta great fighter pity he didnt do more to prove his greatness.

Downplaying the career of Hatton's biggest name victim doesn't look good for Hatton.

[skel1983]

World champion for ten years, and a long resume of guys he beat who held belts. Kostya was 35, a couple of months shy of 36, 4 months down the track. Some names Rodrigues, Pineda, Mayweather, Gonzalez, Ruelas, Chavez, Judah when he was actually a good fighter, Mitchell. Kostya was about 36 when he lost. Ricky to be world champion for ten years, I don't think so,

We all saw what happens to Hatton when the opponent has a ref who wll call a break. So Manchester style refs lead to different results, dont they. Hatton was a club fighter at distance.

Tszyu was p4p no3 according to some sources, p4p no2 others. Look at Marquez, he would get smashed by Tszyu at 140, as way less power, similar game, but also a lesser pressure fighter. The can both counter punch. Marquez won the majority of his 24 rounds with Pacquiao, and he is rated p4p no2.

Hatton cannot even go a full two rounds with Pacquiao, let alone 2 rounds.Fresh..Tszyu hadn't fought more than 3 rounds in nearly two years, and was near Julio Cesar Chavez's age. I give Hatton as much credit for beating Tszyu, as I give Kostya for beating Julio Cesar Chavez. Both guys were old, though the Hatton fight was relatively close. Most guys over 30 are old in boxing terms, Hopkins is the exception. Now Hatton has this problem. Aside from his lucky day, who else can Hatton beatr when their actually still pretty good??

Are you being serious??

Give your head a big wobble mate, you compare Hatton beating p4p number 3 fighter the same as beating JCC Snr the same, youve lost the plot mate, Chevez was done, nowhere to be seen in anyones rankings already dismanteled by Oscar twice, have a look at the fighters records Chevez was fighting after his second ko defeat to Oscar. He was fighting the local bin men from Mexico. You also state Mayweather as a decent win? The same Roger who had been beaton 11 times?? Get your cock out of Kosta bum mate hes a great guy great fighter but dont overhype things here.

Yes i agree Kosta had more time at number 1 but who did he beat? Zab Judah is a great win? Zab Judah is poor mate at the time it was a decent win but Judah has only ever beat Cory Spinks. Just look at the fighters Hatton has fought and the fighters Kosta has fought:

Kosta Hatton

JCC Snr - Phillips
Gonzalez - Maussa
Mitchell twice - Collazo
Urkal - Uranga
Judah - Castillo
Tackie - Lazcano
Leija - Mallinaggi

Lost Lost

Phillips - Mayweather
Pacquio

Now given Kosta reign was for 10 years but he fought fuck all in all honesty in ten years weather it was a fault of his or not, but Hatton and Kostas resume is not much difference in terms of quality, i mean Ricky packed them names into his resume in the space of 3-4 years. Kosta fought his names over space of 10-11.

Kosta great fighter pity he didnt do more to prove his greatness.

Downplaying the career of Hatton's biggest name victim doesn't look good for Hatton.

So whats your view on it then? Am i wrong or have i missed something, everyone could see Kosta was a class act and a very very good boxer/fighter, but he lacks names on his resume.

[KostyaTszyuTeam]

Yes...you missed alot. Alot of guys were fought in between these top opponents, spanning a long long title reign. The overall body of work beating top opponnets is deeper and longer than Hattons. He also fought actively until he was 32-33, so Hatton did fight more guys, but he ceratinly wasnt taking on former world champions in his fourth pro fight, because nobody could match up with him. Should check out some of Tszyus earlier fights, you win notice his considerable speed in comparison to when older, and dynamic buzz saw attack.

Of note, he also beat alot of future world champions as an amateur, most notably Vernon Forrest for the Amateur World Title

Fourth fight as a pro - former world champion, Juan LaPorte


Former world champion, Livingstone Bramble



Former world champion - First Pro World Title, Jake Rodriguez



x2 World Champion Roger Mayweather, first title defence 12th or so Pro fight! (went hard with Whittaker)



Hugo Pineda, Sydney, Australia, TKO 11
6'1 Undefeated at the time, very dangerous. ONCE THESE GUYS ARE BEAT, never the same


Jan Bergman


Calvin Grove, Australia, Former World Champion


Rafael Ruelas, Former World Chmapion


Diobelys Hurtado, Former World Title holder, who was atop draw fighter who gave Whittaker all he could handle, then wore down later in his career


Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Long reigning Lightweight Champion, and Jnr Welterweight champion, One of Mexicos best ever, and was finished as a fighter after Tszyu DESTROYED him, far more easily than a Prime De La Hoya


Destroyed the Great Julio Cesar Chavez


Beat top champion in his prime, Sharmba Mitchell

Massacred future Undisputed Welterweight champion Zab Judah when he was at his most dangerous weight 140. Never quite the same after it


Pitched an absolute shutout, when Ben Tackie was actually good as the no1 challenger. Never the same fighter again


Beat former world champion Leija who had just disposed of the then up and coming Hector Camacho jr.



Signs of slowing down against Leija, THEN 2 YEAR INJURY LAYOFF


DESTROYED Sharmba Mitchell, when rated inside the top 10, being the top active fighter in boxings then current strongest division. Tszyus power covered up the fact he hadn't fought more than 3 rounds in 2 years


35 - Defeated by Ricky Hatton in a fight that didn't go his way.

Most notable wins, Rodriguez, Ruelas, Hurtado, Gonzalez, Chavez, x2 Mitchell, Judah WHEN THESE GUYS COULD ACTUALLY FIGHT, with the exception of the faded legend, though still active no1 contender, Julio Cesar Chavez.
The number of other contenders dispatched, OVER TIME, was an impressive reign


Kosta Hatton

JCC Snr - Phillips (Philips beat Tszyu when he was at his best, and was much faded when fought Hatton.
these two shouldnt be in the same sentence, and Chavez was actually the no1 mandatory
challenger, unlike Phillips)
Gonzalez - Maussa (Gonzalez was one of Mexicos best ever, and a LONG reigning Lightweight champion. Again,
Maussa beat an overated Harris, and hadn't done anything since)
Mitchell x2 Collazo - (Mitchell in his PRIME was an excellent boxer, significantly better than Collazo, and has been a top ten fighter, unlike Collazo)
Urkal - Uranga (Urango is good, current titlist, in somewhat weak division. Urkal was pretty good,
similar talent but edge to Urango for being a titlist)
Judah - Castillo (Castillo never did anything to be considered great. He lost a close fight to PBF, and Corrales. Judah is a two weight former Undisputed champion. In those days, at 140, he was a more dangerous opponent,
to Castillo, who I think is a touch over rated. Hatton dealt with Castillo accordingly.)
Tackie - Lazcano (Tackie was probably more dangerous when the no1 contender, got beat up by Tszyu, never was
dangerous again - alot of guys who got beaten by Tszyu were never the same again)
Leija - Mallinaggi (Leija did more in his career, but he was older when Tszyu fought him, and Malinaggi was a good
current top opponent)


Hatton fought two p4p no1 fighters, unlike Tszyu, but lost badly both times. So I don't know if you want to include that in comparisons, coz Tszyu was never dominated ever, even when he lost, he still made a tough fight out of things - a mute footnote then

In Hattons favour, he did beat an older Tszyu who could still fight, but had slowed alittle. x1 Hall of famer in Hattons favour.
Kostya beat more guys who were champions, in Kostyas favour

[skel1983]

Yes...you missed alot. Alot of guys were fought in between these top opponents, spanning a long long title reign. The overall body of work beating top opponnets is deeper and longer than Hattons. He also fought actively until he was 32-33, so Hatton did fight more guys, but he ceratinly wasnt taking on former world champions in his fourth pro fight, because nobody could match up with him. Should check out some of Tszyus earlier fights, you win notice his considerable speed in comparison to when older, and dynamic buzz saw attack.

Of note, he also beat alot of future world champions as an amateur, most notably Vernon Forrest for the Amateur World Title

Fourth fight as a pro - former world champion, Juan LaPorte


Former world champion, Livingstone Bramble



Former world champion - First Pro World Title, Jake Rodriguez



x2 World Champion Roger Mayweather, first title defence 12th or so Pro fight! (went hard with Whittaker)



Hugo Pineda, Sydney, Australia, TKO 11
6'1 Undefeated at the time, very dangerous. ONCE THESE GUYS ARE BEAT, never the same


Jan Bergman


Calvin Grove, Australia, Former World Champion


Rafael Ruelas, Former World Chmapion


Diobelys Hurtado, Former World Title holder, who was atop draw fighter who gave Whittaker all he could handle, then wore down later in his career


Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Long reigning Lightweight Champion, and Jnr Welterweight champion, One of Mexicos best ever, and was finished as a fighter after Tszyu DESTROYED him, far more easily than a Prime De La Hoya


Destroyed the Great Julio Cesar Chavez


Beat top champion in his prime, Sharmba Mitchell

Massacred future Undisputed Welterweight champion Zab Judah when he was at his most dangerous weight 140. Never quite the same after it


Pitched an absolute shutout, when Ben Tackie was actually good as the no1 challenger. Never the same fighter again


Beat former world champion Leija who had just disposed of the then up and coming Hector Camacho jr.



Signs of slowing down against Leija, THEN 2 YEAR INJURY LAYOFF


DESTROYED Sharmba Mitchell, when rated inside the top 10, being the top active fighter in boxings then current strongest division. Tszyus power covered up the fact he hadn't fought more than 3 rounds in 2 years


35 - Defeated by Ricky Hatton in a fight that didn't go his way.

Most notable wins, Rodriguez, Ruelas, Hurtado, Gonzalez, Chavez, x2 Mitchell, Judah WHEN THESE GUYS COULD ACTUALLY FIGHT, with the exception of the faded legend, though still active no1 contender, Julio Cesar Chavez.
The number of other contenders dispatched, OVER TIME, was an impressive reign


Kosta Hatton

JCC Snr - Phillips (Philips beat Tszyu when he was at his nest, and was much faded when fought Hatton.
these two shouldnt be in the same sentence, and Chavez was actually the no1 mandatory
challenger, unlike Phillips)
Gonzalez - Maussa (Gonzalez was one of Mexicos best ever, and a LONG reigning Lightweight champion. Again,
Maussa beat an overated Harris, and hadn't done anything since)
Mitchell twice - (Mitchell in his PRIME was an excellent boxer, significantly better than Collazo, and has been a top
ten fighter, unlime Collazo)
Urkal - Uranga (Urango is good, curent titlist, in somewhat weak division. Urkal was pretty good,
similar talent but edge to Urango for being a titlist)
Judah - Castillo (Castillo never did anything to be considered great.He lost a cose fight to PBF Judah is a two
weight former Undisputed champion. In those days, at 140, he was a more damgerous opponent,
to Castillo, who I think is a touch over rated. Hatton dealt with Castillo accordingly.)
Tackie - Lazcano (Tackie was probably more dangerous when the no1 contender, got beat up by Tszyu, never was
dangerous again - alot of huys who got beaten by Tszyu were never the same again)
Leija - Mallinaggi (Leija did more in his career, but he was older when Tszyu fought him, and Malinaggi was a good
current top opponent)


Hatton fought two p4p no1 fighters, unlike Tszyu, but lost badly both times. So I don't know if you want to include that in comparisons, coz Tszyu was never dominated ever, even when he lost, he still made a tough fight ouyt of things - a mute footnote then

In Hattons favour, he did beat an older Tszyu who could still fight, but had slowed alittle. x1 Hall of famer in Hattons favour.

Kostya beat more guys who were champions, in Kostyas favour

I put down there best wins not in any particualar order so i wasnt putting them against each other. Rite give me a minute and il put up my list.

[skel1983]

You make me laugh mate. In one instance you discredit Hattons win agaisnt Kosta becasue of the age of Kosta, but in another instance, you put his wins up against Mayweather and Chevez as if they actully meant something.

"Went 12 hard rounds with Whittaker "

You failed to mention it was 9 years before.Also the great Chevez yes was great was a corpse when he fought Kosta them two fights dont go down as any relevance, and to even compare Kosta beating Chavez to Hatton beating Tszyuu is pathetic.

These names are the best wins for the two fighters.

Kosta

JUDAH - Current IBF Champ defended it 5 times went on to become undisputed 147 world champ defended it once

GONZALEZ - Was once WBC Champ defended it 11 times. 3 more world title shots 1 draw 2 loses

LEIJA - Won one World Title and drew in another world title shot all other title attempts he was defeated.

MITCHELL- Number 1 contender never won a world title.

TACKIE - Another contender never a world title holder fought Hatton 18 months after same sort of result.URKAL - Never world Champion 4 failed attempts solid European standard fighter.

HURTADO - One time world Champion won the vacant belt failed in two other attempts to win a world title.

MAYWEATHER - Shot to pieces not really a great scalp but still mentioned as he was a world champ was 8/9 years previous to this, Mayweather totally passed his best had lost over 10 times when Kosta met him

CHAVEZ - Great fighter one of the best of all time pity he was way past his best and had been knocled out many times and was fighting local mexican road sweepers prior to the Kosta fight.Id say they are Kostas best 10 wins.

Hatton

TSZYU - Was current defending 140 lb champion 10 times defending champion, his second reign as champ first one held the belt for 6 fights. Was p4p number 3.

CASTILLO - WBC 2 time 135 Champ defended it 6 times and 4 times. Never fought for a title after Hatton fight.

COLLAZO - Was the 147 WBA Champ, defended it once before losing to Hatton, has fought for a world title twice since and not been champion again

URANGO - Was current IBF Champ when he fought Hatton, first defence has since won back the IBF Title since and is the current 140 ibf world champion

MALIGNAGGI - Was the IBF Champ when Hatton fought him had defended his title twice before the Hatton fight.

MAUSSA - Was current WBA world champ first defence when Hatton fought him not won a title since.

LAZCANO - Never a World Champ tried three times never succeded.TACKIE - Never a World Champ another contender decent gatekeeper.

PHILLIPS - Over the hill past experienced champ who had beaton Kosta in the past and been a World Champion.So what would you say to that??


Compare, Hatton fought 5 World Champions when they were still World Champions, i no that Kosta had most of the starps through his reign. I honestly dont see much deifference in the quality of there best wins, but as usual you will overrate Kostas wins against Chavez and Mayweather who i put right at the bottom of his best wins.

[skel1983]

..

[CGM]

Downplaying the career of Hatton's biggest name victim doesn't look good for Hatton.

So whats your view on it then? Am i wrong or have i missed something, everyone could see Kosta was a class act and a very very good boxer/fighter, but he lacks names on his resume.

Valid question, IMO Tszyu's name victories stack higher than Hatton's, but not by a huge amount. More name victims on Tszyu's resume. I don't really want to have a debate on why TSZYU's victims were better than Hatton's, but I will if you want. Also Tszyu ranks higher by virtue of the length and # of defenses in his reign.

I wouldn't say Tszyu & Castillo were totally shot, but they definitely were on the downside, especially Castillo. And it doesn't mean a whole lot to me to say things like "Hatton only lost to the best" Cause I think you judge a fighter by who he beat, not by who he lost too.

I would have been much more prepared to give Hatton credit if he'd taken a serious run at welterweight. But the consensus of his fans seems to be that Hatton wasn't competitive moving up a microdivision in weight, in which case he had no business fighting PBF in the first place.

So yeah, he's a decent fighter, you might even call him a good fighter, but great? nah not by a long shot. And I never really consider him as top ten p4p material.

[skel1983]

Downplaying the career of Hatton's biggest name victim doesn't look good for Hatton.

So whats your view on it then? Am i wrong or have i missed something, everyone could see Kosta was a class act and a very very good boxer/fighter, but he lacks names on his resume.

Valid question, IMO Tszyu's name victories stack higher than Hatton's, but not by a huge amount. More name victims on Tszyu's resume. I don't really want to have a debate on why TSZYU's victims were better than Hatton's, but I will if you want. Also Tszyu ranks higher by virtue of the length and # of defenses in his reign.

I wouldn't say Tszyu & Castillo were totally shot, but they definitely were on the downside, especially Castillo. And it doesn't mean a whole lot to me to say things like "Hatton only lost to the best" Cause I think you judge a fighter by who he beat, not by who he lost too.

I would have been much more prepared to give Hatton credit if he'd taken a serious run at welterweight. But the consensus of his fans seems to be that Hatton wasn't competitive moving up a microdivision in weight, in which case he had no business fighting PBF in the first place.

So yeah, he's a decent fighter, you might even call him a good fighter, but great? nah not by a long shot. And I never really consider him as top ten p4p material.

Yes i agree with most you say there and my opinion of Kosta being higher than Ricky is exactly the same reasoning. Kosta of course was not in his prime he was 36 years old or nearly 36, but he was nowhere near shot, Castillo was shot and yes a decent win as alot of people predcited Hatton loss but look at Castillos preformances prior to the Hatton win they were signs he was not the fighter he was, but Kosta was nowhere near shot, as the odds suggested where Kosta was a strong 1/2 favourite the saem price Pac was to beat Hatton, Hatton was always odds on to beat Castillo.

[KostyaTszyuTeam]

Hatton beat a Tszyu who could still fight, true. Tszyu had slowed down abit, and prior to blowing out Mitchell inside of 3 rounds, hadn't fought inside nearly two years aside those 3 rounds.

He then jumped in with Hatton, for one of the most physical big time fights you can get, and Hatton physically wore him out. It was really hard to say, but stamina and endurance were with the younger guy..Older guys foing it like that, especially after such relative activity, he got done.

First real signs of Tszyu slowing down were January 2003 v Jesse James Leija. A 6 round rather slow paced fight, where Leija chucked in the towel in the 6th.

Next fight wa Mitchell in November 04, the Hatton May 05. He was older, not quite at his best, slowed abit. It's kind of hard to tell, but that wasnt the best I've seen the guy. Also, he underestimated Hatton, as there is noway he would've conceded home ground, time, etc for a major world title unifier. The ref was to Hattons advantage, in direct contrast to the type Mayweather got, t set and reload.


He lost.....The whole pint is, if at least afew of those factors are true, Tszyu still put up a good fight near 36.

That was definetly Hattons biggest win, much bigger than Castillo. Against Pacquiao, stylistically hard against a fast southpaw for Hattons style..