Great Technical Boxers Limited by Mentality

[SweetPea]

Never in any post have I stated or claimed that Ricky Hatton was a good technical boxer.

If you don't think Ricky Hatton is a good technical boxer, then why in the world did you list him in a thread called "Great Technical Boxers Limited By Mentality"?

That'd be like if I started a thread titled "Fat Heavyweights," listed James Toney in bold in my post, and then said, "Never in any post have I stated or claimed that James Toney is fat."

[Andre]

fart -church -pew. get it?
Never mind.

HAtton /squandered /talent.
Sure he's not great technically but limited mentally 4 sure and effected in the ring by it, worth a mention.

There are very few Great technical boxers ever, aside from ones limited by mentality: the two just dont go hand in hand.

Thank God for different styles reaches,heart and build.

[generalbulldog]

I would have to agree with the OP's assessment of Meldrick Taylor.
I just got done watching the Taylor-Chavez HBO special. Remembering it now this guy was billed as the next Sugar Ray Leonard. The quick reflexes, the uncanny hand speed, the foot movement, the flashiness, etc. This guy was just too stupid in getting into brawls instead of outboxing and outsmarting guys. The HBo special was saying that Taylor had to prove he was an Philadelphia brawler. Way to go in not using your god given abilities to your advantage and instead playing into the hands of Chavez.

Damn what a waste of talent.

[holmcall]

Ben Tackie had/has solid skills but makes lots of mental mistakes in the ring.

[generalbulldog]

Wladimer Klitschko

...yeah because being THE Heavyweight Champion of the world just isn't hitting the top of your game

Mike Tyson isn't walking through that door Majesty so why don't you go watch Butterbean or something, that's what you want right A guy who will "mix it up", a guy who "takes chances"....BOXING is hit and don't get hit, it's not a fucking Toughman competition.

I look at this thread and I read "Great Technical Boxers Limited by Mentality" which to me means "guys who had some skill but because of their mindset or some mental issues they could not achieve their potential" Wladimir Klitschko is a 3 time Heavyweight champion, he's The Ring magazine Heavyweight champion, he holds the IBF and WBO belts and just dominated the #3 ranked heavyweight in the world and you think he's limited by his mentality Maybe you think he could achieve more than he has....that's fine and dandy but there's not much left for him to do other than defend his titles vs whatever the division can throw at him. Winning 53 fights and scoring 47 stoppages vs top level competition is pretty impressive. This is not about whether you appreciate Wlad's style or like watching his fights it's about guys who reached their potential and I would say Wlad has pretty much reached his potential and therefore wouldn't belong on this list....meanwhile someone like Michael Grant WOULD be on this list.

Exactly, the name of the game is to hit and not be hit. I think the guy is a genius in the ring, using all of his god given abilities to his advantage. It would be stupid not to. Most fight fans loves a fighter/brawler like Julio Cesar Chavez or Marvin Hagler but very few guys could pull that off. If you have other abilities at your disposal, why not use them?

[Spicoli]

Ben Tackie had/has solid skills but makes lots of mental mistakes in the ring.

He may have put too much stock into that backhanded compliment and curse of death.....'but he has a great chin' . When he caught up to top notch Garcia for ko...Brutal

[mad_takamura]

Joshua Clottey?? not a finisher...

To a larger degree Quartey, he was similar to Clottey, but he had that great jab and power.
Here are guys for me

Potentially Gamboa: IMO a better athletic version of Meldrick Taylor, but his cockiness could be the death of him. He does things so effortlessly sometimes, and other times he gets caught.
Andre Berto: another top tier athlete who is tough, can box, and he wants to be exciting, but I think he has a hard time trying to integrate excitement and boxing and he leaves himself wide open for counter punches.
Roy Jones Jr: not because of anything he did in the ring, but because of what fights didn't end up getting made, I know they weren't 100% his fault, but as PAcquiao is showing the big fights can be made if you are really eager to fight guys. I think his fear of a serious injury led him away from the biggest fights in his prime.
Ali and Lennox Lewis: didn't train as hard as they could have for many of their fights.
Wilfredo Benitez: he trained like 2 weeks in total for both the HEarns and Leonard fight, I am not sure if he wanted an excuse or honestly didn't care, but I think he never gave his best effort leading up to the fight.
Mike Tysonbvious reasons
Zab Judah: obvious reasons
Juan Guzman: poor manager? Lost his opportunity by not making weight for a very important fight because he stayed at 130 way too long.
Michael Nunn and Whiatker: could have had longer careers had they kept clean.

andre berto still has all the potential to redeem himself. i think why he leaves himself open is to bait the other guy, he is an amateur standout and Olympian: he knows what he's doing.
and as for guzman, can't blame the manager on his weight problems. managers ain't suppose to babysit fighters. fighters have responsibilty to commit themselves in making the weight.

[AdamGB]

Never in any post have I stated or claimed that Ricky Hatton was a good technical boxer.

If you don't think Ricky Hatton is a good technical boxer, then why in the world did you list him in a thread called "Great Technical Boxers Limited By Mentality"?

That'd be like if I started a thread titled "Fat Heavyweights," listed James Toney in bold in my post, and then said, "Never in any post have I stated or claimed that James Toney is fat."

I hate to ruin the nit picking you're so obviously enjoying but I think that Donny is talking about fighters who could have been better if it wasn't for their mind set?

Maybe if you replace 'Great technical boxers' with 'great boxers on paper' or 'fighters with greater potential' like he clearly means then you wouldn't be so anal about it?

Where Tua or Golota 'technical' fighters? No... it's clear what the direction here is, go nit pick your face instead.

[Majesty]

Wladimer Klitschko

...yeah because being THE Heavyweight Champion of the world just isn't hitting the top of your game

Mike Tyson isn't walking through that door Majesty so why don't you go watch Butterbean or something, that's what you want right A guy who will "mix it up", a guy who "takes chances"....BOXING is hit and don't get hit, it's not a fucking Toughman competition.

I look at this thread and I read "Great Technical Boxers Limited by Mentality" which to me means "guys who had some skill but because of their mindset or some mental issues they could not achieve their potential" Wladimir Klitschko is a 3 time Heavyweight champion, he's The Ring magazine Heavyweight champion, he holds the IBF and WBO belts and just dominated the #3 ranked heavyweight in the world and you think he's limited by his mentality

He IS limited by his mentality. he underperforms because he is afraid of getting knocked out and looks stiff in the ring. He has improved as a fighter but fights like he still has something to be scared about. Just because someone achieves a lot doesn't mean they aren't limited by their mentality. He holds himself back from performing as great as he can because he is mentally scarred from being knocked out. Limited by Mentality doesn't have to mean they always lose. He fights like he is scared to get knocked out again and it holds him back from putting on a performance that makes the heavyweight division watchable. He has people in front of him he can steamroll yet he never presses the issue because he is afraid of getting knocked out again. Wladimer's playing hide and seek with himself but no one's it.

Wladimer is limited by his mentality from being knocked out, he is now a tentative cautious fighter that makes the heavyweight division boring, if he was never knocked out he'd never learned anything new and became a better fighter. Yet he became a better fighter and still fights like he has the world to be afraid of in the ring. He is the definition of a fighter with great skill but limited by his mentality to pull the trigger. It doesnt mean he loses all the time. But it does mean he is a great technical boxer limited by his mentality.

The problem with Wladimer that i thought you'd understand right now is not his execution of hit and not get hit. It's called not taking advantages of all your skills to blast someone out rather then let them stay around.

Like I said before the mentality of "I have all the punches in the world but i wont use them until someone hurts me" is a pretty stupid way of thinking. Use them all the time to make sure they don't hurt you, don't pick and choose when you wanna use them just cause you can. It says enough about his talent that he can get away with it right now in his career but it also speaks for how weak the division is. You have all the punches in the world you use them and win the fight, you don't perform down to what your opponent is doing and do just enough above that to win a fight. That's stupid. All other fighters that perform down to the level of their opposition but still win get hell but people want to exempt Wladimer. Why?:

I'm very aware about Boxing being hit and not get hit, hell Im the guy who made the Larry Merchant vid because he hated on a fighter in Chris Byrd who HAD to fight defensively.

But there is a difference between the style you HAVE to fight and the style you decide to fight. Wladimer doesn't have to fight like he doesn't have speed power ability over everyone else. Wladimer has won a fight in two rounds using one hand yet people try to act like if he didn't use the strategy of jab, grab and right hand that he would get knocked out and he is a much better fighter then that. He just doesnt show it because mentally he is still scarred from getting knocked out. Too many what if's in his head that you'd think would have been gone after the Peter fight. They aren't. Do to me, Wladimer is a great technical boxer limited by mentality

[SweetPea]

Never in any post have I stated or claimed that Ricky Hatton was a good technical boxer.

If you don't think Ricky Hatton is a good technical boxer, then why in the world did you list him in a thread called "Great Technical Boxers Limited By Mentality"?

That'd be like if I started a thread titled "Fat Heavyweights," listed James Toney in bold in my post, and then said, "Never in any post have I stated or claimed that James Toney is fat."

I hate to ruin the nit picking you're so obviously enjoying but I think that Donny is talking about fighters who could have been better if it wasn't for their mind set?

Maybe if you replace 'Great technical boxers' with 'great boxers on paper' or 'fighters with greater potential' like he clearly means then you wouldn't be so anal about it?

Where Tua or Golota 'technical' fighters? No... it's clear what the direction here is, go nit pick your face instead.

Nitpick is one word, not two. How's that for nitpicking?

[AdamGB]

Not bad...

[The Promoter]

I'd have to go with;

Mike Tyson - just too obvious

Ike Ibeabuchi - mentally weak

Andrew Golota - Basically just crazy

Fernando Vargas - Early on let his ego get the better of him and learned when it was too late. Could have been a great.

Hector Comacho - lost his courage in a tough fight with Rosario, never the same mentally.

[El Kabong]

He IS limited by his mentality. he underperforms because he is afraid of getting knocked out and looks stiff in the ring. He has improved as a fighter but fights like he still has something to be scared about. Just because someone achieves a lot doesn't mean they aren't limited by their mentality. He holds himself back from performing as great as he can because he is mentally scarred from being knocked out. Limited by Mentality doesn't have to mean they always lose. He fights like he is scared to get knocked out again and it holds him back from putting on a performance that makes the heavyweight division watchable. He has people in front of him he can steamroll yet he never presses the issue because he is afraid of getting knocked out again. Wladimer's playing hide and seek with himself but no one's it.

Wladimer is limited by his mentality from being knocked out, he is now a tentative cautious fighter that makes the heavyweight division boring, if he was never knocked out he'd never learned anything new and became a better fighter. Yet he became a better fighter and still fights like he has the world to be afraid of in the ring. He is the definition of a fighter with great skill but limited by his mentality to pull the trigger. It doesnt mean he loses all the time. But it does mean he is a great technical boxer limited by his mentality.

The problem with Wladimer that i thought you'd understand right now is not his execution of hit and not get hit. It's called not taking advantages of all your skills to blast someone out rather then let them stay around.

Like I said before the mentality of "I have all the punches in the world but i wont use them until someone hurts me" is a pretty stupid way of thinking. Use them all the time to make sure they don't hurt you, don't pick and choose when you wanna use them just cause you can. It says enough about his talent that he can get away with it right now in his career but it also speaks for how weak the division is. You have all the punches in the world you use them and win the fight, you don't perform down to what your opponent is doing and do just enough above that to win a fight. That's stupid. All other fighters that perform down to the level of their opposition but still win get hell but people want to exempt Wladimer. Why?:

I'm very aware about Boxing being hit and not get hit, hell Im the guy who made the Larry Merchant vid because he hated on a fighter in Chris Byrd who HAD to fight defensively.

But there is a difference between the style you HAVE to fight and the style you decide to fight. Wladimer doesn't have to fight like he doesn't have speed power ability over everyone else. Wladimer has won a fight in two rounds using one hand yet people try to act like if he didn't use the strategy of jab, grab and right hand that he would get knocked out and he is a much better fighter then that. He just doesnt show it because mentally he is still scarred from getting knocked out. Too many what if's in his head that you'd think would have been gone after the Peter fight. They aren't. Do to me, Wladimer is a great technical boxer limited by mentality

Did he win the other night? Did he stop the guy? Hasn't he stopped the majority of his opponents? Hasn't he won the vast majority of his fights? Then I fail to see how he's "limited" he's not limited he fights smart which is why he's won 11 in a row and had 8 KO's.

I don't think there is any boxer dead or alive who wouldn't want to be able to control a fight like Wladimir did on Saturday. He dished out the punishment, he controlled the pace of the fight and he barely got hit...how the fuck is that limited?!?! So people assume he's SCARED to get hit, how about NOT GETTING HIT is part of the fucking sport?? He's also THE Heavyweight Champion so if he's "limited" it's not affecting much

[RozzySean]

He IS limited by his mentality. he underperforms because he is afraid of getting knocked out and looks stiff in the ring. He has improved as a fighter but fights like he still has something to be scared about. Just because someone achieves a lot doesn't mean they aren't limited by their mentality. He holds himself back from performing as great as he can because he is mentally scarred from being knocked out. Limited by Mentality doesn't have to mean they always lose. He fights like he is scared to get knocked out again and it holds him back from putting on a performance that makes the heavyweight division watchable. He has people in front of him he can steamroll yet he never presses the issue because he is afraid of getting knocked out again. Wladimer's playing hide and seek with himself but no one's it.

Wladimer is limited by his mentality from being knocked out, he is now a tentative cautious fighter that makes the heavyweight division boring, if he was never knocked out he'd never learned anything new and became a better fighter. Yet he became a better fighter and still fights like he has the world to be afraid of in the ring. He is the definition of a fighter with great skill but limited by his mentality to pull the trigger. It doesnt mean he loses all the time. But it does mean he is a great technical boxer limited by his mentality.

The problem with Wladimer that i thought you'd understand right now is not his execution of hit and not get hit. It's called not taking advantages of all your skills to blast someone out rather then let them stay around.

Like I said before the mentality of "I have all the punches in the world but i wont use them until someone hurts me" is a pretty stupid way of thinking. Use them all the time to make sure they don't hurt you, don't pick and choose when you wanna use them just cause you can. It says enough about his talent that he can get away with it right now in his career but it also speaks for how weak the division is. You have all the punches in the world you use them and win the fight, you don't perform down to what your opponent is doing and do just enough above that to win a fight. That's stupid. All other fighters that perform down to the level of their opposition but still win get hell but people want to exempt Wladimer. Why?:

I'm very aware about Boxing being hit and not get hit, hell Im the guy who made the Larry Merchant vid because he hated on a fighter in Chris Byrd who HAD to fight defensively.

But there is a difference between the style you HAVE to fight and the style you decide to fight. Wladimer doesn't have to fight like he doesn't have speed power ability over everyone else. Wladimer has won a fight in two rounds using one hand yet people try to act like if he didn't use the strategy of jab, grab and right hand that he would get knocked out and he is a much better fighter then that. He just doesnt show it because mentally he is still scarred from getting knocked out. Too many what if's in his head that you'd think would have been gone after the Peter fight. They aren't. Do to me, Wladimer is a great technical boxer limited by mentality

Did he win the other night? Did he stop the guy? Hasn't he stopped the majority of his opponents? Hasn't he won the vast majority of his fights? Then I fail to see how he's "limited" he's not limited he fights smart which is why he's won 11 in a row and had 8 KO's.

I don't think there is any boxer dead or alive who wouldn't want to be able to control a fight like Wladimir did on Saturday. He dished out the punishment, he controlled the pace of the fight and he barely got hit...how the fuck is that limited?!?! So people assume he's SCARED to get hit, how about NOT GETTING HIT is part of the fucking sport?? He's also THE Heavyweight Champion so if he's "limited" it's not affecting much

Simple, Lyle. Too many people on his forum grew up with young Mike Tyson as HW champ. That's what they think a HW champ should be. They think a HW champ should act like the biggest, baddest bully on the block. That's why so many people think Haye is the "savior" of the division he talks the talk and fights in that style. They also have no respect for any current HW's so they think a real champ should blast out everybody in under five. These are the same types of people who never game Larry Holmes the credit he deserves/deserved. Holmes was all jab, too.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Never in any post have I stated or claimed that Ricky Hatton was a good technical boxer.

If you don't think Ricky Hatton is a good technical boxer, then why in the world did you list him in a thread called "Great Technical Boxers Limited By Mentality"?

That'd be like if I started a thread titled "Fat Heavyweights," listed James Toney in bold in my post, and then said, "Never in any post have I stated or claimed that James Toney is fat."

You're an intelligent guy, why would you decide to take the title so literally?

Technically Ricky could have been great couldn't he


What, I find most peculiar is that you take the example of Ricky, when guys like Andrew Golota were mentioned.
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