Would Juan Manuel Marquez's Brother Have Done Better Against Manny Pacquiao P4P ?

[OumaFan]

I said right hand from the beginning. That was pretty clear. Why you decided to mention Pacquiao's right and than back track, i have no idea. Like I said a couple of posts back your not really familar with Rafael Marquez career. So really your not fit to discuss him. Vazquez is not the only p4p fighter Marquez has beaten. Mark Johnson was a p4p fighter who hadn't been beaten in 11 years. Marquez out pointed him and than knocked him out. He also knocked out the unbeaten and underrated Tim Austin. Who was boarderline p4p. But you don't recongnize the names. So to you they don't count.

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

True but that was at 115 and I still think Montiel choked a bit in that fight. Johnson was a great 112 pounder.

[Taeth]

I said right hand from the beginning. That was pretty clear. Why you decided to mention Pacquiao's right and than back track, i have no idea. Like I said a couple of posts back your not really familar with Rafael Marquez career. So really your not fit to discuss him. Vazquez is not the only p4p fighter Marquez has beaten. Mark Johnson was a p4p fighter who hadn't been beaten in 11 years. Marquez out pointed him and than knocked him out. He also knocked out the unbeaten and underrated Tim Austin. Who was boarderline p4p. But you don't recongnize the names. So to you they don't count.

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

I watch way more boxing than you do Violent stop being a dumb ass

Anyone who knows boxing knows
Lennox Lewis
Winky Wright
Oscar Dela Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Eric Morales
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Are all better than Mark Johnson, there is a reason he isn't going into the hall of fame.

Yet your the person who says Mark Johnson is better than all these guys who most of which were near their prime around this period.

Manny was an absolute beast at 122, Rafael hasn't had the same chance to beat lesser opponents at the weight, but Manny naturally bigger stronger, faster, and while Rafael is better technically, he isn't better technically than Barrera who Pacquiao chewed up. If Rafael fought the version of Manny who was at 122, but was naturally the bigger man it might be a different story, but coming up like he has to 122, he isn't as powerful, and Vazquez isn't what Pacquiao was at 122, he doesn't hit as hard, he's not as quick, and he isn't southpaw.

Violent Demise, you are truly an idiot, you can't even come up with a good arguement, the only thing you can say is that I haven't seen this fighter or that, I had no idea that you've seen my fight archive and what fights I've seen. Its pretty surprising seeing as I've got my videos on an external hard drive, and if you did see it you would see fights with Mark Johnson and Rafael MArquez on there, and I've watched Rafael Marquez probably more than you have. Try coming up with a valid arguement of why Mark Johnson is better than the list I mentioned before, try coming up with examples of where Rafael showed his right hand to be better than Hopkin, Roy Jones Jr, or Floyd Mayweather Jr's crosses. You also must be dumb because if you had seen any of them fight this whole arguement would be void, its clear the guys I've mentioned have the best crosses in boxing, and have had them for awhile.

[OumaFan]

I guess I should tell you two to chill out on the insults on the main board. I think its generally accepted that you think each other is a dumb ass so maybe we could just leave it at that instead of constantly expressing it.

[Taeth]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1999 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

Whether or not you think he should of been there or not, the fact is he was.

I said legitimate, RING has hardly proven legitimate, they love the flavor of the month, hence why Darchaniyan and Mijares have recently been on there, and Caballero.

[OumaFan]

Mark Johnson did have P4P talent though, shame he didn't quite get the big fights till later in his career.

[Violent Demise]

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

True but that was at 115 and I still think Montiel choked a bit in that fight. Johnson was a great 112 pounder.

I actually think Montiel rally to pull it out at the end by a point. But it was no robbery. And it clearly showed Johnson wasn't done

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

I watch way more boxing than you do Violent stop being a dumb ass

Anyone who knows boxing knows
Lennox Lewis
Winky Wright
Oscar Dela Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Eric Morales
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Are all better than Mark Johnson, there is a reason he isn't going into the hall of fame.

Yet your the person who says Mark Johnson is better than all these guys who most of which were near their prime around this period.

Manny was an absolute beast at 122, Rafael hasn't had the same chance to beat lesser opponents at the weight, but Manny naturally bigger stronger, faster, and while Rafael is better technically, he isn't better technically than Barrera who Pacquiao chewed up. If Rafael fought the version of Manny who was at 122, but was naturally the bigger man it might be a different story, but coming up like he has to 122, he isn't as powerful, and Vazquez isn't what Pacquiao was at 122, he doesn't hit as hard, he's not as quick, and he isn't southpaw.

If you came to that conclusion based on my posts than your a bigger idiot than I orignally thought. And that's pretty fukking big. When exactly did I say Johnson was better than the fighters listed? I said he was a p4p fighter. Which he was. There's a difference. Anybody that seen Johnson fight knows he's not the crap fighter your trying to make him out to be. He was an outstanding fighter.

You can make all the claims you want. But I figuered you out a long time ago. You know about the mainstream fighters. And that's pretty much it. You only know what's popular. The fact that you would use Jones-Trinidad as an example for anything positive still makes laugh

[CFH]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1999 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

Whether or not you think he should of been there or not, the fact is he was.

I said legitimate, RING has hardly proven legitimate, they love the flavor of the month, hence why Darchaniyan and Mijares have recently been on there, and Caballero.

So if the Ring's P4P rankings aren't legitimate whose are?

[Taeth]

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot



He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

True but that was at 115 and I still think Montiel choked a bit in that fight. Johnson was a great 112 pounder.

I actually think Montiel rally to pull it out at the end by a point. But it was no robbery. And it clearly showed Johnson wasn't done

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot



He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

I watch way more boxing than you do Violent stop being a dumb ass

Anyone who knows boxing knows
Lennox Lewis
Winky Wright
Oscar Dela Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Eric Morales
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Are all better than Mark Johnson, there is a reason he isn't going into the hall of fame.

Yet your the person who says Mark Johnson is better than all these guys who most of which were near their prime around this period.

Manny was an absolute beast at 122, Rafael hasn't had the same chance to beat lesser opponents at the weight, but Manny naturally bigger stronger, faster, and while Rafael is better technically, he isn't better technically than Barrera who Pacquiao chewed up. If Rafael fought the version of Manny who was at 122, but was naturally the bigger man it might be a different story, but coming up like he has to 122, he isn't as powerful, and Vazquez isn't what Pacquiao was at 122, he doesn't hit as hard, he's not as quick, and he isn't southpaw.

If you came to that conclusion based on my posts than your a bigger idiot than I orignally thought. And that's pretty fukking big. When exactly did I say Johnson was better than the fighters listed? I said he was a p4p fighter. Which he was. There's a difference. Anybody that seen Johnson fight knows he's not the crap fighter your trying to make him out to be. He was an outstanding fighter.

You can make all the claims you want. But I figuered you out a long time ago. You know about the mainstream fighters. And that's pretty much it. You only know what's popular. The fact that you would use Jones-Trinidad as an example for anything positive still makes laugh

How am I suppose to say Roy Jones Jr's cross is still potent without using recent fights? You really must not be capable thinking very hard because your linear logic is getting redundant. Also I didn't say Mark Johnson wasn't a good fighter, I am just saying no way in hell should he have been p4p at that point, he had a lot of talent, but he didn't have the competition to prove he was a great fighter, there is a difference. Being p4p on the ring magazine list is pointless, they often put guys who don't deserve to be on it, there because
1) Guys on the list lose to good fighters and get dropped down much too quickly.
2) Fighters can be popular coming up, but they haven't proven themselves yet.
3) Bad choices.

Your admitting that he should be way up there, so I don't see the point argueing further, all you can do is resort to name calling because you can't have a decent debate about fighters, I wouldn't mind the name calling if you came up with intelligent arguements, but you don't. You think you know everything about me, you think you know so much about boxing, but you obviously don't or you would be able to come up with valid points.

[Violent Demise]

Violent Demise, you are truly an idiot, you can't even come up with a good arguement, the only thing you can say is that I haven't seen this fighter or that, I had no idea that you've seen my fight archive and what fights I've seen. Its pretty surprising seeing as I've got my videos on an external hard drive, and if you did see it you would see fights with Mark Johnson and Rafael MArquez on there, and I've watched Rafael Marquez probably more than you have. Try coming up with a valid arguement of why Mark Johnson is better than the list I mentioned before, try coming up with examples of where Rafael showed his right hand to be better than Hopkin, Roy Jones Jr, or Floyd Mayweather Jr's crosses. You also must be dumb because if you had seen any of them fight this whole arguement would be void, its clear the guys I've mentioned have the best crosses in boxing, and have had them for awhile.

When are you going to understand that the year is 2009. Not 1999. Roy Jones doesn't have the best of anything any more. His right hand (the only thing I been talking about) is not among the best any more. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I don't care if he hit Trinidad at will. You know why? Cuz it was a old, fat Trinidad who was fighting above his best weight. He wasn't a threat. As for Hopkins? He right was murder. Back in 2001. It was still among the best till 2005. It's not any more. It's not even the same punch. The duck your head, close you eyes right that Hopkins throws today is no where near the right that broke Trinidad. It's not even close to the right that ruined Joppy. Your going off names alone. Only an uneducated fool like yourself would say otherwise

[Spicoli]

Mark Johnson did have P4P talent though, shame he didn't quite get the big fights till later in his career.

Absolutly.Suprised anyone who watched much Johnson would even question his all around p4p cred.

His problem was he at times went for a brawl and neglected his fooking supreme boxing ability.He got stymied with Forum promotions,lacked exposure until he went another direction really and had a shite load of legal problems going on.Fought solid fighters throughout in Jimenez,Tejedor,Juarez,.....anhilated a superb boxer in Arthur Johnson.This guy was a gem in the rough and missed the big stage and great fights with Tapia and Yuri.He was ranked as p4p because he was exactly that

[mad_takamura]

Pound for pound Rafael hits harder than Juan. If Pacquiao were to trade with him, Pacquiao would get knocked out. Pacquiao has always been a sucker for the right hand. Rafael's right is the best in Boxing.

this is a noobish post from someone who is a veteran in saddo.

Even in alt mode you post garbage. Pound for pound Rafael does hit harder than Juan. It's the reason is KO% is higher. Hell, Juan himself said his brother hits harder.

And Pac is and will always be a sucker for the right hand. Provided he's fighting someone capable of actually hitting him

he's just saying his brother hits harder than him to boost rafa's market value. he ain't as popular as jmm! and to say his ko% is higher that's because most of his opponents are class-d, class-c fighters! you know the valero resume right? you can only count to your right hand respectable fighters rafa faced!
so what if i type in alt. want me to type like you? this ain't typing class sir!

[mad_takamura]

What durability issues? He's been stopped once in recent years. And that was clearly a pre-mature stoppage against a p4p fighter. The losses early in his career can't be used against him cuz he's not the same fighter. Just like Pacquiao's early stoppage losses can't be used against him. Rafael can be hurt. I'm not saying he has the greatest chin. But to say he's not durable is typical stupidity coming from you. To say Rafael's right hand ain't all that shows how big of an idiot you really are. Pacquiao has looked greatly lately. But that's cuz he's been facing fighters incapable of hitting him. But if you hit him you can hurt him. Rafael would hit him. And he would hurt him.

the p4p fighter you're mentioning is izzy vasquez and to tell you as a matter of factly izzy is the former sparring mate of manny! at that level since he was the sparring partner of manny, and since he ko'ed rafa, then pac could also do it if not more easily.

it's not really power that can beat manny if ever they met at that same weight back then. it's intelligence. jmm made a fight out of manny because he studied manny's moves, seen the right angles etc. and countered him brilliantly.in short he did it with brains and what is more impressive was he did it under pressure. rafa is not as smart as his brother. imo under pressure just like what happened to the izzy fight, and considering manny as more agressive, and in fact more powerful in the 122pnds than izzy, it's him who will get ktfo not manny! vd i thought you know your idols well? it seems it's your blind nuthuggery that keep stretching the facts huh?

rafa is indeed durable. if you studied his demeanor and compared it to jmm kd (pac-jmm 1)to rafa kd or tko by izzy, rafa looks more disoriented than jmm. his legs were wobbly, his face red, his eyes is not there, you're even lucky the referee stopped the fight or he could have suffered serious damage! jmm in that fight which was called a draw, stood up and iv'e seen his legs not wobbly unlike his brother. taeth was right rafa really have a suspect jaw1 it seems facing power punchers there is a good chance rafa will get ktfo!

plus all the tko loss of pac happened due to body shots. he did get kd before, but it's you who said that that was the past and pac is not the same fighter anymore. saying rafa will ko pac with his right hand is like saying he should be ranked higher than his brother p4p! you gotta be an illusionist!

well said.

btw, you can't expect an intelligent answer from VD all the time. When pac is involved, even if the opponent is Agapito Sanchez, he'd say Pac will get demolished. AS far as I can remember, he hasn't predicted correctly any pac fight.

lastly, I won't make a comment regarding hypothetical matches especially matches that won't happen(e.g. Pac vs RM) coz it's simply not practical. IMO.

Answers would usually be biased and sometimes debaters come to a point of even disrespecting fighters just to win an argument.

Had pac not won against Diaz, DLH and Hatton, can we be truly convinced that he will win against Rafa? Our judgements are usually tainted with a fighter's current performance and I've seen it happening here in Saddo countless times already.

Pac will have a hard time against Rafa for sure.

vd always talk about hypothetical matches because that's where he feels safe. like a little kid in some mother's bosom.

[Violent Demise]

this is a noobish post from someone who is a veteran in saddo.

Even in alt mode you post garbage. Pound for pound Rafael does hit harder than Juan. It's the reason is KO% is higher. Hell, Juan himself said his brother hits harder.

And Pac is and will always be a sucker for the right hand. Provided he's fighting someone capable of actually hitting him

he's just saying his brother hits harder than him to boost rafa's market value. he ain't as popular as jmm! and to say his ko% is higher that's because most of his opponents are class-d, class-c fighters! you know the valero resume right? you can only count to your right hand respectable fighters rafa faced!
so what if i type in alt. want me to type like you? this ain't typing class sir!

Poor kid. It must really suck being that stupid

[mad_takamura]

Even in alt mode you post garbage. Pound for pound Rafael does hit harder than Juan. It's the reason is KO% is higher. Hell, Juan himself said his brother hits harder.

And Pac is and will always be a sucker for the right hand. Provided he's fighting someone capable of actually hitting him

he's just saying his brother hits harder than him to boost rafa's market value. he ain't as popular as jmm! and to say his ko% is higher that's because most of his opponents are class-d, class-c fighters! you know the valero resume right? you can only count to your right hand respectable fighters rafa faced!
so what if i type in alt. want me to type like you? this ain't typing class sir!

Poor kid. It must really suck being that stupid

i'll count on my right hand respectable fighters rafa faced! it seems you don't know your boy well vd. man do i have to teach you?!
izzy vasquez,silence mabuza,tim austin and mark johnson.
what only 4? see i can only count them with my right hand!

can you make them 5 or more vd? i told you his power punching are only aginst fighters coming off from a loss or who had 25 or 15 losses. if the foe had 3 losses, they are either starting out or picking out bum fighters as well!

make them 5 vd if you know your boy rafa well!

[CFH]

the p4p fighter you're mentioning is izzy vasquez and to tell you as a matter of factly izzy is the former sparring mate of manny! at that level since he was the sparring partner of manny, and since he ko'ed rafa, then pac could also do it if not more easily.

it's not really power that can beat manny if ever they met at that same weight back then. it's intelligence. jmm made a fight out of manny because he studied manny's moves, seen the right angles etc. and countered him brilliantly.in short he did it with brains and what is more impressive was he did it under pressure. rafa is not as smart as his brother. imo under pressure just like what happened to the izzy fight, and considering manny as more agressive, and in fact more powerful in the 122pnds than izzy, it's him who will get ktfo not manny! vd i thought you know your idols well? it seems it's your blind nuthuggery that keep stretching the facts huh?

rafa is indeed durable. if you studied his demeanor and compared it to jmm kd (pac-jmm 1)to rafa kd or tko by izzy, rafa looks more disoriented than jmm. his legs were wobbly, his face red, his eyes is not there, you're even lucky the referee stopped the fight or he could have suffered serious damage! jmm in that fight which was called a draw, stood up and iv'e seen his legs not wobbly unlike his brother. taeth was right rafa really have a suspect jaw1 it seems facing power punchers there is a good chance rafa will get ktfo!

plus all the tko loss of pac happened due to body shots. he did get kd before, but it's you who said that that was the past and pac is not the same fighter anymore. saying rafa will ko pac with his right hand is like saying he should be ranked higher than his brother p4p! you gotta be an illusionist!

well said.

btw, you can't expect an intelligent answer from VD all the time. When pac is involved, even if the opponent is Agapito Sanchez, he'd say Pac will get demolished. AS far as I can remember, he hasn't predicted correctly any pac fight.

lastly, I won't make a comment regarding hypothetical matches especially matches that won't happen(e.g. Pac vs RM) coz it's simply not practical. IMO.

Answers would usually be biased and sometimes debaters come to a point of even disrespecting fighters just to win an argument.

Had pac not won against Diaz, DLH and Hatton, can we be truly convinced that he will win against Rafa? Our judgements are usually tainted with a fighter's current performance and I've seen it happening here in Saddo countless times already.

Pac will have a hard time against Rafa for sure.

vd always talk about hypothetical matches because that's where he feels safe. like a little kid in some mother's bosom.

Bruce?