Ratings discussions, ideas, concerns etc

[CFH]

I agree with all of those except for Killer's rule, I am firmly against it to be honest (sorry Killer).

Regarding the polls, I think they're great and they should be used liberally for all sorts of matters.

Edit: Like Killer, I feel managers should be able to break ties.

No offense taken, but I am curious to your issue with it, especially with the new revisions.

Agree on everything but votes being equal, I think the managers being worth 2 is a good thing as its about the only thing a manager has to do.

I think it undermines the credibility of our system and makes it unbalanced. I am for managers getting 1 vote + a tie-breaking vote. However, I understand where you're coming from.

[killersheep]

Something that's come up in the Prescott/Vazquez fight. I feel that if we pick a fight to go from pool to rankings we are voting on the fight not the fighter. For future reference if there is a guy in the pool that's fighting someone with a Kid Thunder like record, we should not vote that it's a fight worth ranking unless we are willing to put the underdog in the rankings in the case of an upset.

[Galaxy]

Something that's come up in the Prescott/Vazquez fight. I feel that if we pick a fight to go from pool to rankings we are voting on the fight not the fighter. For future reference if there is a guy in the pool that's fighting someone with a Kid Thunder like record, we should not vote that it's a fight worth ranking unless we are willing to put the underdog in the rankings in the case of an upset.

Hopefully with the new rule approved to vote to fill vacancies we won't have to worry about that anymore

[Galaxy]

I was think we should have a deadline for votes for the week, maybe the end of Tuesday night for any votes for that week, that way I can post an update & start working on the next weeks one

[Violent Demise]

I personally feel that guys doing the bare minimum to stay there, like Judah, should not stay ranked over guys who've beaten a better quality of opponent.

I personally feel that if Mayweather beats Marquez at the least he should be ranked ahead of Judah & maybe the winner of Rodriguez/Hlatshwayo.

I also feel him & Pacquiao being higher is more likely to bring us a champ as they're the only 2 people wanna fight.

Maybe we introduce the Pound For Pound list in somewhere, where beating a guy voted in the Top 10 outside of his weightclass is worth a little extra or something.

Another thing, is maybe a guy who hasn't registered a win in 12months+ can be overtaken by the fighter directly below him. 2 years without win & being dropped is fair, but if its one of those guys who never bothers to fight than it will be difficult bringing in new blood.

Good idea for a thread Galaxy

I see what your saying & I kinda agree but as I said on another thread it should be based on what they have done at that weight. Mayweather has been out for nearly 2 years & Marquez has never fought there before so there achievements at that weight are arguably less.

With killers new rule where we could vote fighters down a spot we can combat guys taking the easy road by demoting them a spot.

I sort of like your idea of beating a p4p fighter being worth more but it could get a little sketchy. We recently had Agbeko defeat Darchinyan, does that then mean Agbeko should advance further at 118 by beating a man who had never fought at that weight before? Even though he was a p4p ranked fighter?

Maybe if you beat a p4p guy you advance 2 spots, e.g. Mayweather defeats Marquez so he would enter at 9th.

I'm not to fussed about those 2 being higher because I feel for a champ to be crowed at 147 they have to go through Mosley!

As to your second point I think that's what killer is aiming for by being able to demote fighters once per month, if that fighter is ranked 10th we could vote to drop him to the pool? Freeing up a vacancy for new blood...

How about this, fighters in the Pound For Pound list ranked from #1-5 are worth a maximum 2 place jump on a vote, whilst 6-10 are a max 1 place jump.

So Agbeko beating Darchinyan means we create a vote where we have the option of keeping him where he is or taking 3rd from Yonnhy Perez?

Should Mayweather beat Marquez, rather than just take the vacant 10th spot, he could come in at 8th, hence a jump of 2 places.

I agree anyone has to go through Mosley, but particularly that division, we have our best chance of crowning a champ if PBF & Pac are higher as only they & Berto are fighters who Mosley seems interested in fighting.

Mayweather's case I think is a little different. No one really believed he was done fighting. And he's set to fight the number 2 (really should be 1) ranked fighter, I think a case should be made about him getting his former spot back with a win over Marquez

[Galaxy]

Nah, Mayweather's been out for over a year so he should fight his way back in imo

[CFH]

Nah, Mayweather's been out for over a year so he should fight his way back in imo

Agreed

[JazMerkin]

I'd like to raise again the issue of the 1 year wait after a fighter moves up. I think when a fighter has made a high-profile commitment to moving up, we should free up space. The obvious example for me right now is Nonito Donaire, who has said he will simply not be going back to Flyweight as he was sauna suiting to make the weight for the Martinez fight. In instances like this, I really think its best we free up the space for fighters fighting in that division.

For example Urbano Antillon was ranked in the Super-Featherweight rankings long after it was clear he would not be coming back. I understand he didn't make any clear commitment to fighting at 135, but when a fighter has (e.g. Donaire, Abraham) then we should take that as them risking their spot, particularly once they've fought in that division.

Thoughts?

[killersheep]

I'd like to raise again the issue of the 1 year wait after a fighter moves up. I think when a fighter has made a high-profile commitment to moving up, we should free up space. The obvious example for me right now is Nonito Donaire, who has said he will simply not be going back to Flyweight as he was sauna suiting to make the weight for the Martinez fight. In instances like this, I really think its best we free up the space for fighters fighting in that division.

For example Urbano Antillon was ranked in the Super-Featherweight rankings long after it was clear he would not be coming back. I understand he didn't make any clear commitment to fighting at 135, but when a fighter has (e.g. Donaire, Abraham) then we should take that as them risking their spot, particularly once they've fought in that division.

Thoughts?

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure how we effectively implement it. I would like to discuss it a little more, because I definately think it's something we need to address. I just want to make sure we are careful with this a lot of times what people say has nothing to do with reality and this specifically applies to fighters talking about their intentions.

[Spicoli]

Tempted to just say that where a guy has fought last is where he should be ranked.Maybe we should draw distinctions between a mere tune up and a 'meaningful' fight with top ten and pool members when?Can we track the number of guys who have gone up and how many have returned to lower weight class?Alot of contributing factors,are they rising for a proposed big payday,testing the waters...cannot or will not make the weight any longer.It comes down to guys being ranked in multiple divisions,pool and or top ten.Not big on that as it staggers other fighters progression and can make it messy.

[killersheep]

Tempted to just say that where a guy has fought last is where he should be ranked.Maybe we should draw distinctions between a mere tune up and a 'meaningful' fight with top ten and pool members when?Can we track the number of guys who have gone up and how many have returned to lower weight class?Alot of contributing factors,are they rising for a proposed big payday,testing the waters...cannot or will not make the weight any longer.It comes down to guys being ranked in multiple divisions,pool and or top ten.Not big on that as it staggers other fighters progression and can make it messy.

The problem is with fighters like Pacquiao and Paul Williams. After these next fights who knows where their going to be next.

[Galaxy]

I think it should be taken on a case by case basis (stealing from Spicoli). If someone has an issue with a fighter in this situation like Donaire then all they have to do is put up a vote & let the committee decide.

In Donaire's case I would agree with removing him from 112 as it also creates the possibility that Naito/ Koki Kameda could qualify for our championship!!!

[JazMerkin]

Well, I've come up with my latest hair-brained scheme for our rankings

I was updating the fight schedule & realized that Zab Judah has arranged a fight with Ramon Montano just as his 1 year runs out.

Anyway this got me thinking. Judah is effectively obeying our rules on staying in the rankings, however, the last time he beat any opponent who could be considered above journeyman level was Cosme Rivera back in 2005. Since then he's been beaten comfortably by Floyd Mayweather Jr, Miguel Cotto & Joshua Clottey.

I'd propose a new rule in VERY individual cases, where a fighter who is not actively refusing to take on a decent level of competition is dropped to the bottom of the rankings. Not thrown out altogether, as he is in line with the rules, but I feel a fighter like Judah who's getting by fighting club fighters once a year shouldn't hold his 7th spot on that basis. I propose that fighters doing this (& he's not the only one) should drop to the bottom place in the rankings.

Just to be clear, this is not about punishing fighters not fighting the best competition they could be, but fighters doing the bare minimum & effectively fighting no better than club fighters keeping a ranking. It is a case by case thing, something I feel we would only have to use very sparingly.

Hope that makes sense

[Spicoli]

In the case of Zab every exception towards the door should be made .We could call it the 'stepping stone' rule.Would this be similar to the once a month vote for dropping guys down a notch?Going through this with Peter now.It may take longer,but we'll get him there

[JazMerkin]

In the case of Zab every exception towards the door should be made .We could call it the 'stepping stone' rule.Would this be similar to the once a month vote for dropping guys down a notch?Going through this with Peter now.It may take longer,but we'll get him there

As much as I dislike Peter, he is still a guy who in recent history has been taking tough fights, as in the case of the Chambers fights. He might look terrible in them. The last time Judah took a difficult fight against Clottey, Peter was the WBC champ of the world. I think this rule should only be for guys who are REALLY taking the piss in terms of comp. Looking at what Zab, that seems to be exactly what he's doing