Cotto vs Chop Chop Corley

[josef4334]

Some one pleeeease kills this ''Cotto was rocked by Corley'' drama and post up that pic of Cotto at the weight-in where Cotto is so fucked, he looks like that alien out of Mac & Me...

He wasn't that damn drained. Not only that but nobody told cotto to stay at 140 all that time. Everybody knew that he could have easily fought at 147 and 154 but he chose to fight at 140. He wants to melt down before every fight then thats on him.

Wasn't nobody talking that weight drained shit back in 04 and 05 so don't start now.

it was early in his career and they did talk about the weight issues, same way Khan's people were talking about him having difficulty at making 135, why do you think Cotto only fought like two or three more times at the weight and jumped ship afterwards? and aside from "Manos de lleso" who's really made Cotto look like he did against Corley? no one really, he's given it to everyone just as good as he's gotten it, he's been rocked but he's hurt everyone he's fought, including Clottey and Mosley, not enough to be anywhere remotely close to stopping or dropping them (besides Clottey) but he shook them up, Cotto at 147 is a completely different fighter than he was at 140

yeah.. that was early in cotto's career.. that dont matter.. but manny got knocked down very early by body shots and all that bs..
by saying that you just contradicted yourself when you keep pointing out that manny was stopped by a body shot... well that was early in his career too

this was your post by the way


Quote:
Originally Posted by AirJordanIV
Hey all! Just watched this fight and can't help but to think Manny will hurt him the same way Corley did in the 3rd round of their fight. Corley hurt Cotto with a right hook from the southpaw stance and I feel Manny would too. I think that Corley was strong but not as dynamic as Pac... Or is this an unfair assessment being that Cotto was a lot younger then and still dealing with a learning curve a the time. What do you think?

first off Cotto was already having trouble making weight, Corley's power was underrated (he managed to rock Judah and Mayweather), and Cotto has since fought opposition that is leaps and bounds above Corley and has performed very well, using the same logic as the one you put forth, Pacquiao will probably fold cause well he was stopped very early by body shots, and Cotto is the best body puncher with killer power that he's faced in a long long time

[The Boxer]

You said a lot but you still didn't give me any me any examples of how Cotto is a completey different fighter at 147.

I'm not claiming that cotto hasn't looked better at 147. IMO cotto looked the best i've ever saw him when he fought Margarito. Even though he lost Cotto did things that i didn't know he could do. Still over all i don't feel like he is a completley different fighter at 147. Now if he boxed the way he did against Margarito in every fight a 147 then i would agree, but he hasn't. Yes Cotto has made some changes but he's still largely the same fighter. IMO the fight with Margarito showed the depth of his skills. So it's not that i'm blind, but instead that i'm not blinded by my fanhood for Cotto.


Also I'm not saying PAC beats Cotto. Personaly i think Cotto is being written off. All i'm saying is i think it's possible for PAC to hurt Cotto but at the same time Cotto could definetly time PAC when he jumps in the way he does. Also if we go by what someone said early about how chop chop hurting cotto had a lot to do with Cotto being weight drained than don't you think it's possible that PAC could hurt Cotto since the fight is at a catch weight. Myself i'm 50/50 on who wins this fight right now.

[ElTerribleMorales]

He wasn't that damn drained. Not only that but nobody told cotto to stay at 140 all that time. Everybody knew that he could have easily fought at 147 and 154 but he chose to fight at 140. He wants to melt down before every fight then thats on him.

Wasn't nobody talking that weight drained shit back in 04 and 05 so don't start now.

it was early in his career and they did talk about the weight issues, same way Khan's people were talking about him having difficulty at making 135, why do you think Cotto only fought like two or three more times at the weight and jumped ship afterwards? and aside from "Manos de lleso" who's really made Cotto look like he did against Corley? no one really, he's given it to everyone just as good as he's gotten it, he's been rocked but he's hurt everyone he's fought, including Clottey and Mosley, not enough to be anywhere remotely close to stopping or dropping them (besides Clottey) but he shook them up, Cotto at 147 is a completely different fighter than he was at 140

yeah.. that was early in cotto's career.. that dont matter.. but manny got knocked down very early by body shots and all that bs..
by saying that you just contradicted yourself when you keep pointing out that manny was stopped by a body shot... well that was early in his career too

this was your post by the way


Quote:
Originally Posted by AirJordanIV
Hey all! Just watched this fight and can't help but to think Manny will hurt him the same way Corley did in the 3rd round of their fight. Corley hurt Cotto with a right hook from the southpaw stance and I feel Manny would too. I think that Corley was strong but not as dynamic as Pac... Or is this an unfair assessment being that Cotto was a lot younger then and still dealing with a learning curve a the time. What do you think?

first off Cotto was already having trouble making weight, Corley's power was underrated (he managed to rock Judah and Mayweather), and Cotto has since fought opposition that is leaps and bounds above Corley and has performed very well, using the same logic as the one you put forth, Pacquiao will probably fold cause well he was stopped very early by body shots, and Cotto is the best body puncher with killer power that he's faced in a long long time

first off, Pacquiao wasn't knocked down by body shots, he was knocked the fuck out by body shots, and you need to learn sarcasm buddy, i said that using the same retarded logic that Corley (a southpaw) hurt Cotto, means that Pacquiao will, is the same as saying that seeing how Pacquiao was brutally stopped twice to the body, Cotto (the best body puncher today) will destroy him

i think Cotto's gonna beat his ass, but not cause of his two early TKO losses, i think he's going to lose cause he's not fighting a bum who got a gift decision (Diaz), a weight drained shot fighter (DLH), or a guy who although physically in good shape is horribly limited and fought a completely stupid fight (Hatton), he's fighting a strong natural welterweight who isn't shot, if Manny proves me wrong he deserves all the credit in the world, as i said when he beat Hatton

[JonnyFolds]

He wasn't that damn drained. Not only that but nobody told cotto to stay at 140 all that time. Everybody knew that he could have easily fought at 147 and 154 but he chose to fight at 140. He wants to melt down before every fight then thats on him.

Wasn't nobody talking that weight drained shit back in 04 and 05 so don't start now.

it was early in his career and they did talk about the weight issues, same way Khan's people were talking about him having difficulty at making 135, why do you think Cotto only fought like two or three more times at the weight and jumped ship afterwards? and aside from "Manos de lleso" who's really made Cotto look like he did against Corley? no one really, he's given it to everyone just as good as he's gotten it, he's been rocked but he's hurt everyone he's fought, including Clottey and Mosley, not enough to be anywhere remotely close to stopping or dropping them (besides Clottey) but he shook them up, Cotto at 147 is a completely different fighter than he was at 140

yeah.. that was early in cotto's career.. that dont matter.. but manny got knocked down very early by body shots and all that bs..
by saying that you just contradicted yourself when you keep pointing out that manny was stopped by a body shot... well that was early in his career too

this was your post by the way


Quote:
Originally Posted by AirJordanIV
Hey all! Just watched this fight and can't help but to think Manny will hurt him the same way Corley did in the 3rd round of their fight. Corley hurt Cotto with a right hook from the southpaw stance and I feel Manny would too. I think that Corley was strong but not as dynamic as Pac... Or is this an unfair assessment being that Cotto was a lot younger then and still dealing with a learning curve a the time. What do you think?

first off Cotto was already having trouble making weight, Corley's power was underrated (he managed to rock Judah and Mayweather), and Cotto has since fought opposition that is leaps and bounds above Corley and has performed very well, using the same logic as the one you put forth, Pacquiao will probably fold cause well he was stopped very early by body shots, and Cotto is the best body puncher with killer power that he's faced in a long long time

To be perfectly fair, I think that Cotto has been hurt tons of times, but Manny has been stopped by a Flyweight fighter with decent power. Cotto has fought some big (Clottey), guns blazing (Torres), fast (Judah), smart (Quintana), durable (Mosley) people. I'm not saying Manny hasn't had a great career thus far. But its a matter of where you have campaigned.

[holmcall]

Great speed almost always conquers great power. Pac is definitely the faster fighter. Cotto is certainly not slow...in fact his speed is underrated...but if he goes into this fight purely trying to chase Pac, pin him against the ropes, and hurt him...he will be in big trouble. Another thing people haven't mentioned much...Pac and Cotto in fact have the same reach. If Cotto comes into the fight a bit weak from trying to make 145...trying to run after and catch the faster guy will make him vulnerable. I think to have great success against Pac, you need to have great counter punching and timing...like Marquez. Pac loves to throw himself forward when he tries to throw flurries...and he is often off balance. Cotto needs to utilize his great jab and draw Pac in. Countering him and than setting him up for some hard shots. If Cotto comes into this fight in a strong mental state and fights intelligently...he has a chance. But unlike popular opinion, he should not try to brawl. People simply think that if a fighter is naturally bigger and stronger...he has to impose his strength. That is only the case if your opponent isn't much faster than you. Otherwise...you have to fight a technically smart fight to deal with the speed...and set up opponent. Or you will throw and miss and get tagged and eventually tire out.

I have a thread going with over 1100 posts on another planet, but this post is as good as they get. Very, very insightful.

[holmcall]

it was early in his career and they did talk about the weight issues, same way Khan's people were talking about him having difficulty at making 135, why do you think Cotto only fought like two or three more times at the weight and jumped ship afterwards? and aside from "Manos de lleso" who's really made Cotto look like he did against Corley? no one really, he's given it to everyone just as good as he's gotten it, he's been rocked but he's hurt everyone he's fought, including Clottey and Mosley, not enough to be anywhere remotely close to stopping or dropping them (besides Clottey) but he shook them up, Cotto at 147 is a completely different fighter than he was at 140

yeah.. that was early in cotto's career.. that dont matter.. but manny got knocked down very early by body shots and all that bs..
by saying that you just contradicted yourself when you keep pointing out that manny was stopped by a body shot... well that was early in his career too

this was your post by the way


Quote:
Originally Posted by AirJordanIV
Hey all! Just watched this fight and can't help but to think Manny will hurt him the same way Corley did in the 3rd round of their fight. Corley hurt Cotto with a right hook from the southpaw stance and I feel Manny would too. I think that Corley was strong but not as dynamic as Pac... Or is this an unfair assessment being that Cotto was a lot younger then and still dealing with a learning curve a the time. What do you think?

first off Cotto was already having trouble making weight, Corley's power was underrated (he managed to rock Judah and Mayweather), and Cotto has since fought opposition that is leaps and bounds above Corley and has performed very well, using the same logic as the one you put forth, Pacquiao will probably fold cause well he was stopped very early by body shots, and Cotto is the best body puncher with killer power that he's faced in a long long time

To be perfectly fair, I think that Cotto has been hurt tons of times, but Manny has been stopped by a Flyweight fighter with decent power. Cotto has fought some big (Clottey), guns blazing (Torres), fast (Judah), smart (Quintana), durable (Mosley) people. I'm not saying Manny hasn't had a great career thus far. But its a matter of where you have campaigned.

Manny was stopped by a body shot and was totally drained going into that fight with 3-K Battery M. He also was a midget. I think it's fair to say that that was then and this is now, just as it's fair tio say Cotto was somewhat drained when he fought Torres.

[zhubin]

Great speed almost always conquers great power. Pac is definitely the faster fighter. Cotto is certainly not slow...in fact his speed is underrated...but if he goes into this fight purely trying to chase Pac, pin him against the ropes, and hurt him...he will be in big trouble. Another thing people haven't mentioned much...Pac and Cotto in fact have the same reach. If Cotto comes into the fight a bit weak from trying to make 145...trying to run after and catch the faster guy will make him vulnerable. I think to have great success against Pac, you need to have great counter punching and timing...like Marquez. Pac loves to throw himself forward when he tries to throw flurries...and he is often off balance. Cotto needs to utilize his great jab and draw Pac in. Countering him and than setting him up for some hard shots. If Cotto comes into this fight in a strong mental state and fights intelligently...he has a chance. But unlike popular opinion, he should not try to brawl. People simply think that if a fighter is naturally bigger and stronger...he has to impose his strength. That is only the case if your opponent isn't much faster than you. Otherwise...you have to fight a technically smart fight to deal with the speed...and set up opponent. Or you will throw and miss and get tagged and eventually tire out.

I have a thread going with over 1100 posts on another planet, but this post is as good as they get. Very, very insightful.

Thanks holmcall. I am just hoping it will be great fight. Pac is on fire at the moment...but if Cotto comes in mentally and physically sharp...to go along with a great game plan...he certainly will be more than a handful.

[AdamGB]

It's sorta funny how before Dirrell fought Froch people brought up how he was knocked down in his 7th pro fight as evidence of a suspect chin. But if someone brings up the Corley Cotto fight in terms of him being stunned people will say it was a while ago and it doesnt count now

Apples and Oranges.

I don't recall dirrel ever moving up a weight class? He's always been comfortable at Super Middle.

[The Boxer]

Majesty i understand exactly where your comming from. People often bring up how chop chop hurt PBF as evidence of how PBF can't take a punch But when you mention chop chop hurting Cotto people act like it was forever ago. If i do recall PBF fought Chop CHop in 04 and Cotto fought him in 05. Also Cotto was way more hurt than by Chop than PBF was. People tried to use the chop chop fight as evidence that PBF couldn't handle the strength of fighters at 140 and above. Now all of a sudden people act like PBF is Paul Williams. Anyway all i'm saying is if you wanna use PBF Corley which was in 2004 than we should be able to use Corely Cotto which was in 2005.

By the way whats Chop Chop doing anyway. I haven't heard from him since the Writter fight which i still haven't seen.

[Pugilistic]

Cotto was seriously weight drained at 140.

Look at Cotto at his weigh in against Corley.



Ever since moving up to 147 his chin has proved to be pretty solid taking shots from the likes of Judah, Clottey, Mosley, Quintana. Even against Margarito he took alot of punishment to the body and head before he went down.

[AdamGB]

I think that picture says it all really...

Like I said before: Unless you're comparing two physically identical fighters under the exact same circumstances then you're basically comparing chalk and cheese or apples and oranges.

We're talking about boxing here boys, not playing with pokemon cards.

[Puerto Rican Punch]

Hey all! Just watched this fight and can't help but to think Manny will hurt him the same way Corley did in the 3rd round of their fight. Corley hurt Cotto with a right hook from the southpaw stance and I feel Manny would too. I think that Corley was strong but not as dynamic as Pac... Or is this an unfair assessment being that Cotto was a lot younger then and still dealing with a learning curve a the time. What do you think?

In this fight Cotto was counted a low blow and honestly I did not see it that low. I can try and search the fight again to re-evaluate, but I saw Cotto winning TKO even before he was hurt because Corley was hurt first and gained the bennefit of that low blow call. This is what I believe can happen to Manny. Cotto needs to maintain focus and avoid clean shots as Hatton did, but I think Cotto just will be too strong for Manny.

[Rican]

Cotto is a much smarter fighter, mature, and careful now than when he fought Chop Chop. Cotto was fighting Chop Chop in PR and he came out swinging and with NO DEFENSE WHATSOEVER. It was as if he thought he could walk right through Chop Chop and he got caught with a temple shot, which made him lose his equilibrium.

Cotto was never that stupid again and I do not expect him to be against Manny. Let's remember that Cotto has NEVER been knocked down by a punch. Against Corley, Cotto stayed on his feet. Against Torres, Cotto was pushed down, but the referee called it a knockdown. Against Judah, Cotto was NEVER hurt as many people say, nor was he even staggered (I record all fights and have seen that one many times). Against Margarito, Cotto took a knee, more because of sheer exhaustion and not really from a specific punch that hurt him. It seems to me that Cotto has a very strong chin and is a much more careful fighter than he showed against Corley. I expect him to show these qualities against manny.

[Rican]

Great speed almost always conquers great power. Pac is definitely the faster fighter. Cotto is certainly not slow...in fact his speed is underrated...but if he goes into this fight purely trying to chase Pac, pin him against the ropes, and hurt him...he will be in big trouble. Another thing people haven't mentioned much...Pac and Cotto in fact have the same reach. If Cotto comes into the fight a bit weak from trying to make 145...trying to run after and catch the faster guy will make him vulnerable. I think to have great success against Pac, you need to have great counter punching and timing...like Marquez. Pac loves to throw himself forward when he tries to throw flurries...and he is often off balance. Cotto needs to utilize his great jab and draw Pac in. Countering him and than setting him up for some hard shots. If Cotto comes into this fight in a strong mental state and fights intelligently...he has a chance. But unlike popular opinion, he should not try to brawl. People simply think that if a fighter is naturally bigger and stronger...he has to impose his strength. That is only the case if your opponent isn't much faster than you. Otherwise...you have to fight a technically smart fight to deal with the speed...and set up opponent. Or you will throw and miss and get tagged and eventually tire out.

I have a thread going with over 1100 posts on another planet, but this post is as good as they get. Very, very insightful.

Thanks holmcall. I am just hoping it will be great fight. Pac is on fire at the moment...but if Cotto comes in mentally and physically sharp...to go along with a great game plan...he certainly will be more than a handful.

I agree that this is a great post. Also, I know Manny has great speed, good pop at 140-147, quick feet, and the ability to throw hard and powerful punches from any and all angles. But is he considered a good "technical fighter"? I would say Cotto has the advantage in this department by far, but wonder what everyone thinks about this point.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Cotto was seriously weight drained at 140.

Look at Cotto at his weigh in against Corley.



Ever since moving up to 147 his chin has proved to be pretty solid taking shots from the likes of Judah, Clottey, Mosley, Quintana. Even against Margarito he took alot of punishment to the body and head before he went down.

Nice one Pugilistic, Thats the pic i was looking for...!

Anyone care to say Cotto isn't just a bit dehydrated here